Making Millions from Viral Beats: How Kato Turned TikTok Sounds into a Music Empire

Summary

Podcast Title: Networth and Chill with Your Rich BFF
Episode: Making Millions from Viral Beats: How Kato Turned TikTok Sounds into a Music Empire
Host: Vivian Tu
Guest: Chris Ju (aka Kato on the track Bitch)
Release Date: March 26, 2025

---

Introduction

In this episode of "Networth and Chill," host Vivian Tu delves into the intricate world of music production and the financial dynamics that underpin the industry. She welcomes Chris Ju, famously known as Kato on the track Bitch, a music producer who has not only crafted beats for Grammy-nominated and multi-platinum artists but has also transformed his production skills into a thriving music empire. Together, they explore the challenges and triumphs of monetizing creativity in the digital age.

Chris Ju's Journey into Music Production

Vivian Tu opens the conversation by asking Chris about his role as a music producer:

Vivian Tu [00:00]: How do you make money touring?

Chris Ju [03:19]: "A producer, at least in hip hop and rap, is responsible for making the beats. So I produce the actual musical portion of the song. The artist or the rapper will come up with the lyrics. But we kind of oversee the whole creative process from start to finish, from the writing to the recording to the mixing, sometimes even the marketing aspect of it."

Chris elaborates on his early passion for music, which began in middle school when he taught himself to play the guitar by watching YouTube tutorials. This autodidactic approach led him to join his high school band and eventually transition into music production during his college years.

Understanding the Role of a Music Producer

Chris provides a comprehensive overview of what being a music producer entails:

Chris Ju [03:19]: "A producer is responsible for making the beats... We oversee the whole creative process from start to finish, from writing to recording to mixing, sometimes even the marketing aspect of it."

He emphasizes that the producer's role extends beyond mere beat-making to include creative oversight and, in some cases, involvement in marketing strategies.

Navigating Financial Deals in the Music Industry

A significant portion of their discussion focuses on the financial nuances of the music industry, particularly the complexities of record label deals.

Chris Ju [06:15]: "A big reason why a lot of producers and songwriters get into financial trouble later on is because they don't understand how these deals are structured... when the label recoups that money, they're only recouping from your 20%."

Chris explains the concept of advances and recoupable loans, highlighting how record labels typically take a substantial cut of royalties, making it challenging for artists to earn substantial income unless their work achieves significant commercial success.

The Pitfalls of Streaming

The conversation shifts to the impact of streaming on artists' earnings:

Chris Ju [10:14]: "Musicians get paid 0.003 cents per stream. So if I listen to your song three times, you make one cent."

Chris critiques the streaming model, arguing that while it benefits consumers by making music more accessible, it devalues the art and diminishes creators' earnings.

Diversifying Income Streams

To combat the financial instability inherent in the traditional music industry, Chris discusses how he has diversified his income:

1. Beat Leasing: Selling non-exclusive licenses of his beats through platforms like Beatstars.

   Chris Ju [16:38]: "I've made probably half a million dollars just selling beat leases online."

2. Social Media Monetization: Leveraging TikTok to promote his beats, leading to viral success and substantial brand deals.

   Chris Ju [18:08]: "The whole open verse challenge thing became huge, especially over the pandemic. And I grew from literally a couple hundred followers on TikTok to a quarter million within a couple months."

3. Educational Content: Offering mentoring, coaching, and online courses to aspiring producers.

4. Brand Deals: Securing sponsorships and partnerships, which became a significant revenue source during the pandemic.

Creating and Profiting from Tours

Chris shares his experience of creating his own tour, the Sound Advice Tour, which focuses on providing music feedback to aspiring artists.

Chris Ju [22:32]: "I sold out my first 26-city tour just by doing that on social media."

By keeping the operation lean and offering a premium, intimate experience, Chris managed to turn touring into a profitable venture, a rarity in the independent music scene where most artists struggle to break even.

The Role of Technology and Social Media

Chris discusses the transformative role of platforms like TikTok in modern music promotion and production.

Chris Ju [18:33]: "I started seeing this feature on TikTok where people could do these split screen things and like, take someone else's video and then add your own stuff on top of it... I started seeing this feature on TikTok where people could duet that and like, do freestyles."

He emphasizes how technology has democratized music production and distribution, allowing producers like himself to reach a global audience without the need for traditional gatekeepers.

Lessons in Negotiation and Business Acumen

A pivotal moment in Chris's career was his negotiation strategy when his beat went viral. He underscores the importance of negotiation skills:

Chris Ju [38:51]: "You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate."

Chris recounts how he initially considered demanding a million dollars for a viral beat but ultimately settled for $25,000 plus a percentage of the song—a deal that proved beneficial thanks to the involvement of established artists like Tyga.

Future Trends in the Music Industry

Looking ahead, Chris shares his perspective on the evolving landscape of music production, particularly the rise of AI:

Chris Ju [42:54]: "There will always be a place for human art... but AI will play a larger role in the creation process."

He acknowledges the potential and pitfalls of AI in music, advocating for a balanced approach that leverages technology without sacrificing the human touch that defines authentic artistry.

Building a Sustainable Music Empire

Chris advises aspiring producers to build their own ecosystems to ensure financial stability and creative freedom:

Chris Ju [44:25]: "Focus your time and energy on building your own ecosystem as much as possible."

He shares his experiences of trial and error, emphasizing resilience and adaptability as key factors in sustaining a successful career in the volatile music industry.

Notable Quotes

• On Negotiation:

  "You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate." [38:51]

• On Technology and AI:

  "There will always be a place for human art... but AI will play a larger role in the creation process." [42:54]

• On Building an Ecosystem:

  "Focus your time and energy on building your own ecosystem as much as possible." [44:25]

Conclusion

Chris Ju's journey from a self-taught musician to a multifaceted music producer exemplifies the possibilities within the modern music landscape. By leveraging technology, diversifying income streams, and honing negotiation skills, he has built a resilient and profitable music empire. Vivian Tu and Chris Ju offer listeners invaluable insights into navigating the financial and creative challenges of the music industry, making this episode a must-listen for aspiring artists and producers alike.

Actionable Takeaways

1. Understand Your Role: Grasp the full scope of what it means to be a music producer, beyond just creating beats.
2. Negotiate Wisely: Always negotiate contracts to secure fair compensation and understand the terms fully.
3. Diversify Income: Explore multiple revenue streams such as beat leasing, social media monetization, and educational content.
4. Leverage Technology: Utilize platforms like TikTok to reach wider audiences and create viral content.
5. Build an Ecosystem: Develop a robust personal brand and ecosystem to ensure financial stability and creative control.

Final Thought

As the music industry continues to evolve, the blend of creativity and business acumen is more crucial than ever. Chris Ju's story serves as an inspiring blueprint for artists seeking to turn their passion into a profitable and sustainable career.

---

This summary captures the essence of the conversation between Vivian Tu and Chris Ju, highlighting the key points and actionable insights shared during the episode. Notable quotes are included with proper attribution and timestamps to provide authenticity and depth to the summary.

Transcript

[Vivian Tu]

How do you make money touring?

[Chris Ju]

I created my own tour called the Sound Advice Tour. I go city to city to individual studios across the US and Canada. I sold out my first 26 city tour just by doing that.

[Vivian Tu]

Of the three kind of like main lines of business you have, like, which.

[Chris Ju]

One'S the most lucrative right now or just all time?

[Vivian Tu]

Wow. Can I get both?

[Chris Ju]

Like, the way you asked that I probably invested. How much do you think we invested in that space?

[Vivian Tu]

You've worked with some incredible artists. Who has been the favorite? What's up, rich friends? Welcome back to another episode of Net Worth and Chill with me, your host, Vivian Tu, AKA your rich bff and your favorite Wall street girly. So today we are diving into something that has been plaguing me. The fact that in another life, I really should have been a rapper. No, I'm just kidding. Please do not laugh at me. But music is something that I've always been super passionate about. I love listening to music, whether I'm working out or doing work at my desk or just commuting or just having a dinner with some girlfriends. And the business of music and how to actually build wealth in a creative industry is something that we do not talk about enough. And I know we have a lot of creative entrepreneurs in our audience. And if you think Wall street is cutthroat, wait until you hear about the music industry. That's why I'm hyped to welcome someone who's not just making hits. He's building an entire empire from his production skills. He's worked with Grammy nominated multi platinum artists like Tyga, B O B K camp, Snoop Dogg, E40 Jay Park, Jack Harlow, Paul Wall, and even members of the Wu Tang Clan. But what really sets him apart is how he's turned his production skills into multiple income streams. From beat leases to education to social media. Today we're learning about music. Everyone please welcome Chris Ju, otherwise known as Ka Ku Kato on the track Bitch.

[Chris Ju]

How's it going?

[Vivian Tu]

It's so good to have you today.

[Chris Ju]

Are we about to get into it today? Like, I mean, are we doing this?

[Vivian Tu]

We're doing this. Okay, like, you're gonna start beatboxing. I'm gonna start. No, I'm just kidding. People would literally be like, what are they doing? I wanna start us off for people who love music like me, but they don't know too much about the actual business of it. Like, what do you do as a music producer? Like, what does that even mean? How do you make money? Support for Net Worth and Chill comes from Brooklinen. As spring approaches, we can finally start thinking about removing those bulky comforters from our beds. But what comes next? A quick stop to Brooklinen. Obviously. Brooklinen's super high quality products have been tested and awarded by experts including Good Housekeeping, GQ Wire Cutter and more. Brooklinen sheets are tried and true. With 200,000 plus 5 star reviews and millions of happy customers. Brooklinen's customizable bundles make it easy to refresh your bed and bathroom by putting everything you need in one place. Shop award winners and fan faves in store or [e-mail] that's B R O-O-K L I N E N.com get 15% off your first order today.

[Chris Ju]

So a producer, at least in hip hop and rap, is responsible for making the beats. So I produce the actual musical portion of the song. The artist or the rapper will come up with the lyrics. But we kind of oversee the whole creative process from start to finish, from the writing to the recording to the mixing, sometimes even the the marketing aspect of it, depending on if you have a platform, which was one of my main motivations for creating my own platform. But yeah, that's pretty much what a producer does.

[Vivian Tu]

How does one make a beat? Are you on garage band? Like, I was in 8th grade music class.

[Chris Ju]

It's similar. So there's a lot of different. What they call DAWs, digital audio workstations.

[Vivian Tu]

All right.

[Chris Ju]

But yeah, it's all digital now. No one's actually sitting there. No one's like, yeah, exactly, yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

When did you know you wanted to work in music?

[Chris Ju]

I have a very clear memory. This one time it was probably in like middle school or high school. And my sister actually had an acoustic guitar at the time and she was horrible. She's not like a musical person.

[Vivian Tu]

Shout out, sister.

[Chris Ju]

Shout out to my sister. She's super creative, like very artsy. But yeah, music wasn't her thing. And I remember one day just walking into her room and just seeing this instrument sitting in the corner of her room. And I was like, oh, what's that? And I picked it up and I just started like playing and I jumped on YouTube and found a bunch of tutorials on how to play the guitar. And I taught myself chords and how to play like different songs. And from there it was just led to me being in my high school band and then starting a band, a rock band with my friends. And then I started producing beats in college. So it just kind of snowballed into what it is now.

[Vivian Tu]

You know, I feel like you and I must be on very different youtubes because you learned how to play the guitar, and I learned how to snake my drain, like, get all the hair out of my shower.

[Chris Ju]

I mean, I did that, too. But, yeah, YouTube just taught me everything that I needed to know about music production, and that's basically where I got my education.

[Vivian Tu]

Amazing. I mean, that's a free education. That's amazing.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

And speaking of free and not free, a lot of producers do get caught up in bad deals early in their careers. What are some key things that you were looking out for when you started out in this industry and you were starting to look for, like, your first publishing and collaboration contracts?

[Chris Ju]

Yeah. I'd say a big reason why a lot of producers and songwriters get into financial trouble later on is because they don't understand how these deals are structured. Yeah, artists, too. So, for example, once an artist signs a deal, let's say with a major label, maybe that deal is like an 8020 to the label. Right. So the label gets.

[Vivian Tu]

Label gets 80.

[Chris Ju]

Label gets 80%, and you get 20% of the royalties. Now, when you sign a deal, they usually give you what's called an advance.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay.

[Chris Ju]

So an advance is basically a lump sum of money that they give you. And it's not a paycheck. It's not free money. You know what I mean?

[Vivian Tu]

No, wait, what does that mean?

[Chris Ju]

So an advance is recoupable, and it's recoupable against your Future earnings.

[Vivian Tu]

Your 20%.

[Chris Ju]

Your 20%. So what trips up a lot of artists. And this applies to other types of deals, too. But so when the label recoups that money, they're not recouping it from the full hive, the full 100%. They only recoup that money from your 20%. So it's essentially like a super high interest loan.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

Now, I just want to make something clear because the music. You know, music people always go crazy about this point, especially lawyers. It's not exactly as bad as a traditional bank loan, because if you. If the label doesn't make a dime of that money back, they just take the L. Yeah. So they're not coming after your assets. It doesn't affect your credit score, nothing like that. But it is essentially like having an 80% interest loan because they're only recouping from your 20%.

[Vivian Tu]

Well, I guess, like, I don't. I'm kind of surprised by that because I didn't realize that, like, I knew artists got advances, but I thought they were more closely aligned to like book advances. So I got an advance for my book. Okay, but if that book did badly, right, it would be like the publisher wears all the risk and I'd be like, oop, so sorry, like too bad.

[Chris Ju]

Right.

[Vivian Tu]

But you're telling me in the music industry, you. I get an advance.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

And then I put out an album and the album tanks.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

I might have to pay that money back.

[Chris Ju]

No. So it is, it is the same as like your book deal where you don't. If they don't make a dime of that money back, then.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay.

[Chris Ju]

They just take the L. They just.

[Vivian Tu]

Take the L. Okay.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah. And you could get released from your label deal after that, you could get dropped. You know, you can negotiate like getting out of that deal. But yeah, I mean, it is a huge risk on the labels part.

[Vivian Tu]

Right.

[Chris Ju]

Because they're putting up a bunch of money giving you this advance, knowing that there's a high likelihood they might not get that money back.

[Vivian Tu]

But once you have that advance, you start ticking down on every dollar that's actually sold against that album. And you don't start making money, more money, until you have completely paid back your advance.

[Chris Ju]

Exactly. So let's say they give you a million dollar advance.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay.

[Chris Ju]

Right. And you have an 8020 deal.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. You don't start making money until you get to 5 million and 1. Because it needs to be 20% of that 5.

[Chris Ju]

Right. And so the label will have already netted what, $4 million before you make another penny.

[Vivian Tu]

Another penny?

[Chris Ju]

Yeah. Which is crazy because even with the streaming rates now, you know, musicians get paid 0.003 cents per stream.

[Vivian Tu]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Sorry.

[Chris Ju]

0.0003. Roughly 0.003 cents per stream.

[Vivian Tu]

So you make a third of a penny per stream.

[Chris Ju]

Correct.

[Vivian Tu]

So if I listen to your song three times, you make one cent?

[Chris Ju]

Yes. Like, it's crazy.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

And the really wild part about this. Right, and. And my frustration with the music business and what really motivated me to create my own ecosystem outside of.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

The traditional music business is that the three major labels, Universal, Sony and Warner. There's only three major labels in the world. They have equity in Spotify. Right. So they. When you go to your Spotify playlist and play, you know, your. Like, do you listen to a Spotify playlist when you're working out or go to the gym? Right?

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. Like rap caviar. I'm throwing that out.

[Chris Ju]

Exactly. So rap caviar is completely curated internally by people at the label or people at Spotify.

[Vivian Tu]

So they're incentivized to put their own.

[Chris Ju]

Artists on there 100%. And so not only that. Right. But they are also dictating what artists, musicians and songwriters are getting paid. So they're the ones that set the royalty rate of 0.003 cents per stream, which affects everyone else. All the creators like me, we just have to live with that. So it's not great. It's not great.

[Vivian Tu]

Can we talk about how do you think streaming has changed or ruined the industry?

[Chris Ju]

I think it's great for consumers.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

It's made music more accessible and convenient, but it's come at the expense of the creatives.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

Because I think anytime art becomes more accessible, it devalues it. Right. So that's why we're left with fractions of a penny per stream because it's so easy for anyone to access art and our music, which is great on one hand, but on the other hand it. It kind of brings the value down for everyone. So I don't know. It's really, really hard to make money as a musician.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. Well, what's made you want to do it? Like, I have to imagine there are easier jobs out there.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Like what? Make. Like, was it ever because you're like, oh, I want to become a rock star and famous and like make money or.

[Chris Ju]

No, no. I think for me the motivation was always just that I found an escape through music and music was always something that I love to do. It was the only thing that I could imagine myself waking up and doing every single day, you know, and that is rare. Like, I feel like people don't really have the opportunity even to explore that, you know, and so I feel very grateful that I found music at an early age and was able to really kind of cultivate that love and turn it into a career, which is like the craziest step. Right. But yeah, it's always just been a passion. And so I think that if you're that passionate about something, you'll figure out a way to make it work.

[Vivian Tu]

To make the money work.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah, to make money off of it and to create a living off of it.

[Vivian Tu]

So speaking of money, you know, we've talked a little bit about your actual like day job of producing, you know, for some of these incredible artists. You are an artist yourself, but there's kind of like two other legs to your three legged stool. Right. There's the big time social media piece. You've got a large following on social media, but also you're doing some other like, I would call like business tangential things like beat leases and courses.

[Chris Ju]

I call it music adjacent.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Music adjacent, Jason. Like, did you just wake up one day and think, like, I'm gonna have multiple streams of income? Like, how'd that come about?

[Chris Ju]

No, not at all. I mean, when I met my wife.

[Vivian Tu]

Shout out, wifey.

[Chris Ju]

Shout out to my wife. She's right over there. When I met her 11 years ago, I was a broke, starving musician in every sense of the word. Like the typical broke, starving artist. That was me.

[Vivian Tu]

Wow. She is an incredibly good investor.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah, 100%. She always jokes with me that I was like her best investment.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

But I was a broke, starving artist back then. And I think over those 11 years, I just kind of learned how to build my own ecosystem around my passion of making music and figured out different ways to monetize it. And at the same time, you know, technology was really advancing in that direction that allowed me to do that. Beat leasing became really big.

[Vivian Tu]

Can explain to me what that is?

[Chris Ju]

Beat leasing?

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

Okay.

[Vivian Tu]

So like, I thought I'd just come to you. I'm like, I would like one beat, sir. And you like, sell me the beat.

[Chris Ju]

Traditionally, yes. That's how it's always been. But sometime, probably in the early 2000 and tens, this concept of beat leasing became really big. Right. And that was just this idea that producers can now essentially license beats to anyone that wants to use it without selling exclusivity behind it. So there's this really big platform that I use that I've been on for 10 plus years called Beatstars. It's the biggest online marketplace for artists and producers to buy and sell beats. So they offer a platform where someone like me or anyone else can go on there and you can upload your beats and offer individual, non exclusive licenses for 20 to $50 a pop, whatever. Right. Make it super, super accessible for artists that don't really have big budgets and they're still able to get quality production without paying a couple thousand dollars for an exclusive beat from me. So that's the concept of beat leasing and it's really taken off. I've made probably half a million dollars just selling beat leases online.

[Vivian Tu]

That's sick.

[Chris Ju]

Which is insane. Right?

[Vivian Tu]

Wait, but sorry I cut you off earlier. You were mentioning how you were building out your business. You mentioned beat leasing. Sorry, continue your earlier thought. I didn't mean to cut.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah, no. Beat leasing, one on one, mentoring and coaching, online courses, brand deals became super big for me during the pandemic, started blowing up on TikTok, which I'm sure you have experienced.

[Vivian Tu]

I do. I do know a thing or two about that. Yes.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah. Such a wild time. Looking back at it like that whole couple years, whatever it was, it was.

[Vivian Tu]

Like the wild west because, like, nobody was allowed to go outside.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

You had to be inside. All of this, like, traditional media came to a halt. Right. Like we. We couldn't make movies, we couldn't make TV shows. Suddenly I'm spending hours a day watching people do stuff at their house.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah. Yeah. That's. That's what inspired me to start uploading my beats to Tick Tock. Because I kind of saw, I don't know, I just saw an opportunity there because I didn't see any other producers or beat makers uploading their beats. And then I started seeing this feature on TikTok where people could do these split screen things and like, take someone else's video and then add your own stuff on top of it. But they were mostly like dances or talking videos. But I was like, what if I uploaded my beats and allowed rappers and singers to duet that and like, do freestyles? Right.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

And that idea completely blew up.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

And the whole open verse challenge thing became huge, especially over the pandemic. And I grew from literally a couple hundred followers on TikTok to a quarter million within a couple months.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

You know, and had some big viral moments. The whole so pretty challenge became a thing and I ended up selling that beat to Universal for $25,000.

[Vivian Tu]

I mean, you really like that beat owes you nothing. Like, you used it on social, you leased it, you sold it to univers.

[Chris Ju]

I did everything with that. Yeah. I mean, but that's just the kind of opportunity that you have now with social media. As a musician and especially for producers.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

You know. Cause I feel like opportunities and platforms haven't quite caught up to the producer community because we tend to be more behind the scenes. You know what I mean? Like, producers, like, being behind the scenes, like making the beats, not being on camera and not being on social media like that. And it just opened up so many opportunities for me that I didn't even knew existed. I mean, the amount of brand deals that I got after TikTok was insane. And I had no part of my mind was ever thinking, all right, I'm gonna make brand deals a part of my business.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

You know, like, it was just so far from my thought until it happened.

[Vivian Tu]

How did you navigate that process? Because a lot of, you know, creators and influencers, like, they hire management teams, they hire agents and stuff like that, and like, you are so used to being behind the scenes, the one pulling all the strings, and suddenly now your on screen talent. How'd you navigate that?

[Chris Ju]

I navigated it as best that I could. You know, I wasn't. I can't even say I was prepared for it. Yeah, I had a business partner at the time who stepped in and really helped kind of structure my business around that time that all the brand deals were coming in, and then record labels, every single record label in the world was in my inbox, like, wanting to get a piece of that so pretty record and seeing what else I had in the pipeline. And I don't know, I mean, you know, up to that point, I'd been in the music industry for six or seven years, so I wasn't brand new to it, but nothing to that degree, you know, and so I just. I just kind of figured it out the best that I could with the people that I had around me and had to put trust in those people and just pray that it worked out. And it did, it did. But, you know, the music industry is very unstable.

[Vivian Tu]

So. Define that. Like, explain that to me.

[Chris Ju]

There's a lot of ups and downs with being a musician because as a musician, you know, I always say that we're not only in the music business, but we're also in the media business.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

Now, right. Because we have to be on social media, we have to be creating content. We have to think of the marketing side of everything that we do. It's not just about the art. And so if there's one message that I would just want to stress over and over to every musician and artist out there is that it is not just about the art. The music is 20% of the business.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

The rest is like the marketing, the, the touring, the everything else that comes with that. And so, yeah, that's been the part that has been a journey to navigate.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. Can I ask, how do you make money touring? Like, do you make money touring? Is that a stupid question?

[Chris Ju]

No, no, that's a great question. So I can speak to how I make money off of events and touring. So actually, right before the Pandemic, I created my own tour called the Sound Advice Tour.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay.

[Chris Ju]

And so up to that point, I kind of built a brand on social media for being like, similar to what you do, like giving advice.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

And so a lot of musicians were coming to me for advice on how to navigate their careers in the music industry. And so I built a whole tour called the Sound Advice Tour where I go city to city to Individual studios across the US and Canada. I book it myself. I literally called every single studio myself, booked it, paid for it, paid for all the transportation, the lodging, and sold tickets direct to my audience. And I sold out my first 26 city tour just by doing that on social media.

[Vivian Tu]

You were just like, hey, I'm coming around, come see me. And people did.

[Chris Ju]

Yes. And people did. And it was incredible. Like just bringing together communities of artists and musicians in 26 different cities was crazy. And I never actually like to me, I was doing it more as an experiment.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

Cause I was like, you wanted to.

[Vivian Tu]

See if you could do it.

[Chris Ju]

I wanted to see. Exactly. Cause there's no real precedence for that type of thing.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

And I in my delusional thought, you know, just imagined it going really well. And thank God it did because I could have lost a lot of money. But I ended up making, you know, probably over $100,000 off that first tour, which is rare because when most artists tour as an independent musician, you're losing money.

[Vivian Tu]

Wait, how?

[Chris Ju]

Like just the overhead cost of touring is very, very high. It's very expensive. You gotta bring equipment on the road, you gotta get transportation, you gotta bring your whole team of people. It's very expensive. So a lot of artists do not make money touring. Some of them do, but it's really, really difficult. But for me, you know, it made sense because I was just pulling up to these cities solo with my assistant. Yeah, it was just me and him.

[Vivian Tu]

It kept it really lean.

[Chris Ju]

I kept it super lean. And you know, the tickets were definitely a premium experience. But I feel like it was worth it. Cause I was doing like individual music feedback. I was giving people feedback on their music. Like it was a very intimate thing. Like imagine 20 musicians in this kind of size room and I'm listening to their music, giving them advice. We get to, you know, you're like.

[Vivian Tu]

Showing them how you make the sausage.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

I feel like that's an investment for them in their career.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah, I mean it was great for everyone.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

And just the I. A lot of the feedback was like, yo, Kato, thank you so much for putting this event together. I met so many other talented musicians in my city that I didn't even know existed. And they end up collaborating and like opportunities just sprout from there.

[Vivian Tu]

That's actually so cool. And now I want to ask a very challenging question, okay. Of this three legged stool, producing and actually making music, making social media content where you do make some big bucks and the music adjacent business, which of your kids is the Favorite support for net worth and chill comes from Brooklinen. Listeners of this podcast come here for good and fun financial tips. But why not some great life advice as well, like how important it is to get great quality sleep every night and some great ways to get that sleep. So when Brooklinen came to us to sponsor the podcast, I knew I had to try it first. I got myself some products and I have to say it was incredible. The sheets were so soft and honestly felt like they got softer with every single wash. I absolutely love how high quality they and they feel a lot more expensive than they are. Brooklyn. And sheets are tried and true. With 200,000 plus 5 star reviews and millions of happy customers, Brooklinen's customizable bundles make it easy to refresh your bed and bathroom by putting everything you need in one place. Shop award winners and fan faves in store or [e-mail] that's B R O-O-K L I N E N.com get 15% off your first order today.

[Chris Ju]

My favorite. Yeah, they're my favorite for different reasons.

[Vivian Tu]

That's like such a diplomatic answer.

[Chris Ju]

I know. Okay, so here's how I'd break it down.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay.

[Chris Ju]

Music is still my favorite because I.

[Vivian Tu]

Was guessing you were gonna say that.

[Chris Ju]

That's always gonna be just my passion right now as I mentioned earlier, music is really, really difficult to sustain income from. It's very up and down.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

So with that said, the social media, the brand deals side can be very lucrative and it's just like another creative outlet for me. Once I kind of understood the mindset of going into social media and not really placing too much self judgment on, you know, what's gonna happen. Like how do I look in this video? What are people gonna think of this? Once I kind of removed that from my head, it was like the rest was easy. It was just a creative outlet for me to tell my story to my audience. Right. And that's really how I look at it now, is like social media is a platform for me to tell my story and that's it. Whatever else happens after that is just a bonus. It's a blessing. So that was my mindset and yeah, I think that might be my favorite child.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh wait, you didn't even mention the red headed stepchild of the music adjacent. Okay, kid, so you don't like that one.

[Chris Ju]

It's not that I don't like that one. I would just say that's always kind of a process.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

You know, I'm still learning how to Build my ecosystem in the most efficient way. Right. So, like, building out those parts of my business is still a learning process for me. So it's not that I don't love it, but it does require a lot of time and energy, and sometimes it doesn't. You know, most of the times it doesn't pay off. Right. Like, I've done a lot of things and launched a lot of services or products that flopped. And I'm not embarrassed to say that because I think that's just part of the process. Right. It's like a lot of experimentation and just trying things and seeing what works. So most of the things that I've tried have flopped. But people don't see that.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. You know, they only see your wins.

[Chris Ju]

They see the wins and they see the videos that go viral on TikTok and on Instagram and they hear your.

[Vivian Tu]

Music when it's playing in their peloton class. And I'm trying to get through the second hill of my peloton ride.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Yelling Kato on the track.

[Chris Ju]

Exactly.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah. And that's what people see. And then they build their perception off of that. Right. But there's so much that happens, and that's why I think a lot of musicians, we get inside our own head so much.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

Is because there's so much that's done before the music comes out on Spotify that, like, we just. We kind of wrestle with, and there's no one else really there to see it other than us. And so I have a lot of empathy for musicians and artists because it's a really. It can be a really tough but fulfilling job.

[Vivian Tu]

Of the three kind of, like, main lines of business you have, like, which.

[Chris Ju]

One'S the most lucrative right now or just all time?

[Vivian Tu]

Wow. Can I get both? Like, the way you asked that?

[Chris Ju]

Right now I would say it's all the music adjacent stuff.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay.

[Chris Ju]

All time. I don't know. It's hard to quantify because it's like even. Even all the music adjacent stuff is still connected directly to the music.

[Vivian Tu]

Right. You wouldn't have that business if you didn't have an actual successful producer business.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah. It's not like I'm going and starting my own liquor company.

[Vivian Tu]

Right, right, right.

[Chris Ju]

And even if I did that, you could argue that I built my brand off of, like, my music and everything. But, yeah, it's all connected to the music, so I'm still very much connected to that piece. And I think it all ties in together, honestly. They all feed each other.

[Vivian Tu]

You mentioned earlier that you've had some ventures that were major flops. And let's be real, production is not a cheap industry. There's a lot of tech that's involved. You have those fancy mics that look like flat window sill thingies. You've got the actual soundproof rooms and the thing that looks like a mega keyboard. I don't even know what this is. The mixing thing. Right. Like, how did you know when you were building out your career, like, when to invest and like what was like too much?

[Chris Ju]

I think you can't go wrong investing in things that help inspire your creativity.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

So obviously hardware, software, instruments, even things like, you know, people buying a ticket to my sound advice tour and getting to meet other creatives. I think all of those are worthwhile investments. The thing that I think about a lot and have personally invested a lot of time, money and energy into is my environment. And so building out my studio to, you know, the esthetic that I like that makes me feel the most creative. The current house that me and my wife are in, we made that decision to buy that house because it had a separate space for my studio. So I built out the entire basement to just be my own dedicated space. But before that, we lived in an 1100 square foot house.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

And my studio was half of the guest room. You know what I mean? And so going through that process, I was like, all right, our next home, I have to have my own studio space. That's a non negotiable for me. And credit to my wife. She was like very supportive of that idea. And so when we found this house that we live in now, it had the perfect space. I probably invested. How much do you think we invested in that space?

[Vivian Tu]

I love that you turned to your.

[Chris Ju]

Wife and asked that, would you say, I mean, okay, so if we're talking all in, I mean, $100,000 to renovate.

[Vivian Tu]

And make it like a studio.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah. Like all the equipment, all the soundproofing material, the space itself.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. And that was like, you knew you could make that investment because you had been making money in your producing business and your social media and like the music adjacent. I am curious, like, when you were just half of the guest bedroom, like, did you ever feel like I should just pull the trigger and buy a nicer mic? Or how do you weigh decisions of what to spend on versus what you can get away with when you're kind of bootstrapping it?

[Chris Ju]

Before we moved into our current house, I just didn't have the money.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. Okay.

[Chris Ju]

It was very simple.

[Vivian Tu]

That's Honest.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah. I just didn't have the budget to spend any extra money on, you know, like, making sure. And also just I knew that that wasn't the space for me to do it in, you know? Cause we still needed the other half of the guest room. You know, I couldn't get rid of the guest bed.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

You know, and so I just knew that when the time came and we found our next home, that would be the space that I'd really, really go hard and invest in everything that I wanted it to be.

[Vivian Tu]

I love that so much. I want to ask a random question. How did you come up with your producer tag? And did you have to pay for that or did you just make that yourself?

[Chris Ju]

No, my producer tag is actually an artist that I have been working with for a long time. His name's Jaron Benton. He's the first artist that I really, really became established with as a producer. And he's also from Atlanta. We started working together in probably 2008, somewhere around there. We got signed to the same label together. We went on tour together. I've produced probably 75% of his music. And we had this one song called. I think it was called Shut Up, Bitch. And in the beginning of that song, he said, cato on the track Bitch. And I took that and just made it my tag.

[Vivian Tu]

I love that.

[Chris Ju]

And it's been the same ever since.

[Vivian Tu]

Also, like, where does Cato come from? Cause your name's Chris.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah. So, Kato, do you remember the Green Hornet?

[Vivian Tu]

Like the superhero movie? Yeah, like, vaguely. Yes.

[Chris Ju]

Okay, so in the 60s, there was a character like Cato's sidekick, or. I'm sorry, the Green Hornet sidekick was named Cato. And he was played by Bruce Lee. And Bruce Lee was like my idol. My wife loves this story, by the way. And so that's where I got it from.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay. Yeah, just like the nickname. Because you were the. The Green Hornets sidekick, Bruce.

[Chris Ju]

And I just added on the track, so I thought I was cool.

[Vivian Tu]

That is cool. That is cool. And you know, now that you are kind of, like really, really established, like, you've worked with some incredible artists, artists that people are listening to every single day. Who has been the favorite you have ever worked with and why? Mmm.

[Chris Ju]

Favorite.

[Vivian Tu]

A lot of people are about to be offended.

[Chris Ju]

How do I say this in the most PC way?

[Vivian Tu]

And it doesn't necessarily need to be, like, the best. It just needs to be like, who did you like, really vibe with?

[Chris Ju]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, those early memories of just locking in with Jaren.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

Was like those are core memories for me.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ju]

You know, because so much happened in that period of eight years that we worked together. Really, like big milestone moments.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

You know, we went viral for the first time before viral was even really a thing.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

We got signed together, we went on tour together. I mean, we did everything, you know, like we shared.

[Vivian Tu]

I can't imagine doing all of that with like your bestie.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah, right, exactly. And so that's why those memories for me are so, like just so special because we literally went across the country in a 12 seater passenger van, you know, for 60 days at a time with seven other people in there. Like, we did that together. It wasn't glamorous at all, but it was like just very. Yeah. Formative times.

[Vivian Tu]

Speaking of formative times, do you have any advice for people who want to get into the music industry, like budding producers, anybody who's starting out?

[Chris Ju]

I would say for producers and songwriters, you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.

[Vivian Tu]

Ooh, that is hot fire. That was a bar.

[Chris Ju]

So. And let me explain because I have the perfect example of this. Right.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay.

[Chris Ju]

So when I had the so Pretty beat blow up on TikTok and it went insanely viral, every record label in the world was on my line wanting to get a piece of that song. Right. Because at that time it was me and Rihanna Maria, who was an 18 year old Australian girl. Yeah, she. That was the first song that she ever made in her bedroom, you know, so we were both completely in independent situations. Neither of us were signed. And so every label obviously wanted a piece of that song and ultimately to sign it and to acquire the rights to the song.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

So when we were going through those negotiations, initially a record label reached out to me and they offered me $2,000 for the beat off, which I won't lie, if I was a new producer.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

And that was my first placement and my first moment, I would have been like, hell yeah, give me the two cut the $2,000 check.

[Vivian Tu]

You know, but pre taxes.

[Chris Ju]

Pre taxes. But because I had had experience before and like this wasn't my first rodeo, I knew that I could get more.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, of course.

[Chris Ju]

And so just going back and forth with my lawyers, we were like, should we ask for a million dollars?

[Vivian Tu]

Okay.

[Chris Ju]

And I think he did. He was like, we want a million dollars for this beat. And eventually, I've never told this story before, but eventually I got Tyga involved in the situation because he duetted that beat. It went crazy. And then everyone started suggesting that Tyga get On the song. On the so pretty song. And so I got Tyga involved in it, and he made a very smart business decision. He brought in his friend Steven Victor, who's this really, really established executive in the music industry. They ended up acquiring the rights to the song. And Tyga called me and he was like, bro, you asked for a million dollars. Like, you're crazy. What are you doing? Cause technically he's a part of that deal now. Right. And so he's gonna have to put up the money or it's like his situation. And so I was like, all right, you're right. A million dollars was kind of crazy. And so we went back to our lawyers and they asked for, I think, 50,000. And then we ended up settling for 25,000, just straight up for the beat. And then I also get a percentage of the song. So it ended up being a good deal ultimately. But I got what we negotiated, not what they thought I deserved, you know, So I think that's really important for producers. And there's a. There's a fine line. Like sometimes over negotiating can burn bridges or it can turn people off or people will just think you're a greedy asshole. Right. And so there's a fine line between over negotiating, but. But negotiating enough to get what you deserve.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

You know. And what you want.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

So I think that's the part that every songwriter and producer should really understand. Get a good lawyer.

[Vivian Tu]

That, that too. That too. I mean, I feel like that's incredible life advice. It's like, you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate for.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah, true. Very true.

[Vivian Tu]

You have to fight for everything.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Where do you feel like the industry is probably gonna go in the next 50 years? And how do you plan on being a part of it?

[Chris Ju]

It's really weird right now. Cause I feel like technology is playing a bigger and bigger role in music. Right. There's the whole debate about AI and how it's going to replace all of us.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, my God. Ghost Drake.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, my gosh. Okay.

[Chris Ju]

Yeah, exactly. And I don't know. I think there will always be a place for human art. I don't think that's ever going to go away or get replaced. But I do see AI playing a larger role in the creation of music, even with things like, have you heard of suno?

[Vivian Tu]

Mm. Mm.

[Chris Ju]

SUNO is an AI platform where essentially they created an AI technology by sampling all the music that has ever been created.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay.

[Chris Ju]

But the big controversy is, like, they didn't pay for that.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

They just kind of stole it and created their own technology off of it.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Chris Ju]

And now they're facing a ton of lawsuits. But I've used it and the technology is incredible. It does a really, really good job. So it's like, where's the line? If it can help me make better music? It's still all coming from me. Like, I'm still the one pressing the keys and clicking and pressing the buttons and then pressing export and mixing it. And, you know, I'm still the one that is putting it all together. But now I'm having AI assist me with that process.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, right.

[Chris Ju]

Is that bad? Like, should we be fearful of that? Should we be worried about that? I don't know. I don't know that I have the answer. But I do see myself just continuing to build my own platform and my own ecosystem and kind of operating outside of the traditional music industry because I think that that's where it's at for music creators and artists. You should focus your time and energy on building your own ecosystem as much as possible.

[Vivian Tu]

I love that. That's such great advice. And multiple streams of income like you have, because if one's a little dry for a second, you gotta rely on the other two or you know that one will then start to make a little bit more money. Then maybe you can ease up on a couple of the other things.

[Chris Ju]

But yeah, exactly.

[Vivian Tu]

That's super smart to not put all your eggs in one basket.

[Chris Ju]

100%.

[Vivian Tu]

I love that. Everyone please go listen to Kato on the track. You can find him wherever you listen to your music. And Cato producer on all platforms.

[Chris Ju]

Thank you.

[Vivian Tu]

Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of Net Worth and Chill, part of the Vox Media Podcast network. If you like the episode, make sure to leave a rating and review and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Got a burning financial question that you want covered in a future episode? Write to us via podcastorrichbff.com follow Net Worth and Chillpod on Instagram to stay up to date on all podcasts related news and you can follow me at your rich BFF for even more financial know how. See you next week. Bye. Thanks to Brooklinen for their support. Stop tossing and turning in your bed every night because of those old and worn out sheets. It's time to get yourself some new essentials from Brooklinen. Brooklinen sheets are tried and true. With 200,000 plus 5 star reviews and millions of happy customers. Brooklinen's customizable bundles make it easy to refresh your bed and bathroom by putting everything you need in one place. Their super high quality products have been tested and awarded by experts including Good Housekeeping, GQ Wire Cutter and more. Shop award winners and fan faves in store or online at brooklinen.com that's B-R-O-O-K-L-I-N-E-N.com get 15% off your first order today.