Money Power Politics: Senator Elizabeth Warren Takes on the Financial System

Summary

Networth and Chill with Your Rich BFF

Episode: Money Power Politics: Senator Elizabeth Warren Takes on the Financial System
Host: Vivian Tu
Guest: Senator Elizabeth Warren
Release Date: March 19, 2025

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Introduction and Overview

In this compelling episode of Networth and Chill with Your Rich BFF, host Vivian Tu welcomes Senator Elizabeth Warren to discuss the intricacies of the financial system, focusing primarily on the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB). Recorded live from Austin, Texas at South by Southwest, the episode delves deep into the role of the CFPB, its effectiveness, and the implications of its potential shutdown under the Trump administration.

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Origin and Importance of the CFPB

Timestamp: [03:33]

Senator Warren provides an insightful origin story of the CFPB, emphasizing its necessity in safeguarding consumers against financial malpractices. She explains:

“We have had laws that we've built up through decades for ways that you don't get cheated on financial products. And by the 1990s, early 2000s, those rules were spread among seven different federal agencies. None had the CFPB as their primary mission. So, a group figured out they could exploit this fragmentation, leading to the 2008 financial crash.”
— Elizabeth Warren [03:35]

The CFPB was established to consolidate these consumer protection laws into a single agency, ensuring consistent enforcement and reducing the avenues through which financial fraud could occur.

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Notable Cases and CFPB Achievements

Timestamp: [08:18]

Senator Warren highlights significant achievements of the CFPB, particularly its role in unearthing massive financial frauds. A prime example discussed is the Wells Fargo scandal:

“They opened fake accounts for millions of people... All this gets canceled out. People's credit gets cleaned up... the CEO got fired. It's not perfect, but the ARC bends toward justice sometimes.”
— Elizabeth Warren [08:18]

She underscores the CFPB's success in recovering $21 billion from scams, directly benefiting over 200 million Americans. The agency not only penalizes wrongdoers but also ensures restitution for affected consumers.

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Current Threats to the CFPB

Timestamp: [11:36]

The conversation shifts to the challenges facing the CFPB, particularly under the new Trump administration led by Elon Musk. Senator Warren narrates:

“Elon Musk decides that he's just going to shut the agency down. He posts on X CFPB Consumer Financial Protection Bureau RIP and does his tombstone emoji... They literally went in and told everybody to get out of the building... they send all the cops home.”
— Elizabeth Warren [13:00]

She paints a vivid picture of a powerless financial landscape without the CFPB, where consumers are left vulnerable to unchecked financial malpractices.

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Impacts of Potential CFPB Shutdown

Timestamp: [15:57]

Senator Warren elaborates on the dire consequences of dismantling the CFPB:

“There's no cop on the beat out there. So for anybody who's listening... you're living in a world where there's no complaint hotline and there's no cop on the beat to protect you.”
— Elizabeth Warren [15:57]

She warns of increased financial scams, lack of consumer recourse, and a significant power vacuum in financial regulation, making everyday transactions riskier for consumers.

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Consumer Protection and Personal Financial Advice

Timestamp: [27:33]

Transitioning to personal finance, Senator Warren offers practical advice for individuals to safeguard their finances:

“First of all, just make sure you really have a full inventory. Every place that you're spending money, every one of these financial products that you've got. Are you sure you know what you've got and what you're spending on it?”
— Elizabeth Warren [27:33]

She emphasizes the importance of vigilance in managing financial products, understanding credit terms, and staying informed to prevent unexpected financial burdens.

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Tax Policy Discussion

Timestamp: [29:35]

The dialogue shifts to the administration's proposed tax plan, which aims to favor the wealthiest Americans and corporations:

“Right now, the plan is to cut taxes for the millionaire billionaire class and giant corporations. It will cost the government about $4.6 trillion in revenue.”
— Elizabeth Warren [29:35]

Senator Warren criticizes the plan for exacerbating income inequality and proposes that tax revenues should support essential services like senior care, disability aid, and public education.

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Broader Economic Concerns

Timestamp: [35:26]

Senator Warren voices her concerns about the nation's escalating debt and declining manufacturing capacity:

“The United States was making all those chips. Today, we make 12% of those chips. And for the fancy schmancy chips, the ones that go into AI, we are making virtually none of them.”
— Elizabeth Warren [37:07]

She highlights the vulnerabilities in supply chains, the need for domestic manufacturing, and the broader implications of international trade tensions on the U.S. economy.

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Rapid Fire Q&A Summary

Timestamp: [38:57]

In a swift exchange, Senator Warren provides succinct advice on various financial products:

• Payday Loans:

  “No. The whole business model is to trap you. They make their money by getting people to borrow in the first place and then never letting them out. So go somewhere else for cash.”
  — Elizabeth Warren [38:58]

• Credit Card Rewards Programs:

  “Understand, you are paying for those miles or that's cash back or whatever it is. So just treat it like you would any other purchase.”
  — Elizabeth Warren [39:15]

• Buy Now, Pay Later Services:

  “They do four payments to escape regulation. Be very, very careful.”
  — Elizabeth Warren [39:36]

• Credit Card Interest Rates:

  “Don't ever pay any if you can help it. If you can pay off your credit card in full every month, it's a real convenience.”
  — Elizabeth Warren [40:31]

• Crypto Lending Platforms:

  “Be very cautious here. There are lot of rug pulls and how to scam you.”
  — Elizabeth Warren [41:06]

• Home Equity Lines of Credit (HELOCs):

  “They are bad in the sense that if something goes wrong, you lose your house. Have a solid plan for repayment.”
  — Elizabeth Warren [41:57]

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Closing Remarks and Final Advice

Timestamp: [43:20]

Senator Warren concludes with empowering advice for young individuals aiming to reform the financial system:

“Raise your voice. Let your senator, let your congressperson know that you want the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau... Tell your story on social media why you support the CFPB.”
— Elizabeth Warren [43:20]

She stresses the importance of collective action in preserving consumer protections and fostering a fair financial environment.

When asked about changing American perspectives on money, she shares:

“Think of your money in terms of the good things you can do with it. First, keep yourself safe. Do good things with it, have some fun with it, and don't spend all your time thinking about money.”
— Elizabeth Warren [44:45]

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Conclusion

Vivian Tu and Senator Elizabeth Warren engage in a thought-provoking discussion that not only sheds light on the pivotal role of the CFPB but also offers actionable insights for consumers to navigate the complex financial landscape. The episode underscores the importance of regulatory bodies in ensuring economic fairness and empowers listeners to take proactive steps in managing their finances effectively.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Senator Warren on CFPB's Impact:

  “They opened fake accounts for millions of people... People's credit gets cleaned up... the CEO got fired.”
  — Elizabeth Warren [08:18]

• On Potential CFPB Shutdown:

  “There's no cop on the beat out there. So for anybody who's listening... you're living in a world where there's no complaint hotline and there's no cop on the beat to protect you.”
  — Elizabeth Warren [15:57]

• Advice on Managing Finances:

  “First of all, just make sure you really have a full inventory... Are you sure you know what you've got and what you're spending on it?”
  — Elizabeth Warren [27:33]

• On Changing Financial Perspectives:

  “Think of your money in terms of the good things you can do with it... Money is not the end goal. It's the peace that helps you be able to do the things you want to do.”
  — Elizabeth Warren [44:45]

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This episode serves as a vital resource for anyone interested in understanding the interplay between politics and finance, the protective mechanisms available to consumers, and the steps necessary to ensure a fair and equitable financial system.

Transcript

[Elizabeth Warren]

Donald Trump gets elected President of the United States and in comes his co president Elon Musk. He posts on X CFPB Consumer Financial Protection Bureau RIP and does his tombstone emoji because he thinks it's really clever to shut down a federal agency. What do you think government is supposed to do? Do you think it's supposed to be there to say after you've made it big, you just get to keep sucking it all up? Or do we say when you make it really big, I mean, top of the heat big, you gotta pay some so the next kid gets a chance to make it big.

[Vivian Tu]

Support for Net Worth and chill comes from Brooklinen. As spring approaches, we can finally start thinking about removing those bulky comforters from our beds. But what comes next? A quick stop to Brooklinen, obviously. Brooklinen's super high quality products have been tested and awarded by experts including Good Housekeeping, GQ Wire Cutter, and more. Brooklyn and sheets are tried and true. With 200,000 plus 5 star reviews and millions of happy customers. Brooklinen's customizable bundles make it easy to refresh your bed and bathroom by putting everything you need in one place. Shop award winners and fan faves in store or online at brooklinen.com that's B R O-O-K L I N E N.com get 15% off your first order today. Foreign what's up, rich friends? Welcome back to another episode of Net Worth and Chill with me, your host, Vivian Tu, AKA your rich BFF and your favorite Wall street girly. And today we have an extra special episode because I'm coming to you live from Austin, Texas at South by Southwest. And I'm incredibly excited to be chatting with today's expert guest. With the current administration, a lot of financial protections for Americans are on the chopping block. I've already made a couple of videos on this. But outside of Trump's economic plans for the country, he has called into question the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the cfpb. So today we're going to address what the CFPB actually does, find out if it's actually effective and worth keeping around, and how to protect yourself and your finances. And who better to talk about this than the senator who originally proposed the cfpb. Everyone, please welcome Senator Elizabeth Warren.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Oh, thank you for having me here, Vivian. I'm excited about this.

[Vivian Tu]

We are gonna have such a good chat.

[Elizabeth Warren]

We are.

[Vivian Tu]

But before we get into all the details, let's open up with an icebreaker.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Okay.

[Vivian Tu]

What is the best thing you've Ever spent your money on. And why was it such a great purchase?

[Elizabeth Warren]

A puppy.

[Vivian Tu]

A puppy. Ah, yeah. I mean, how could it not be?

[Elizabeth Warren]

In fact, it almost seems embarrassing to remember that there was money even involved in that, because, let's face it, it's true love.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, definitely. Oh, man, that's such a good answer. And honestly, segways perfectly into what I was going to ask you, because while I was doing my research, I was stalking you. I found something really funny. If you go to your Instagram bio, it says, verbatim, US Senator, comma, ma, former teacher and law professor, wife, mom. But then in parentheses, you've got Amelia, Alex, your two children. Bailey, your beloved golden retriever.

[Elizabeth Warren]

True.

[Vivian Tu]

But then you have a fourth baby, the cfpb.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Oh, yes, all true.

[Vivian Tu]

So let's start with the origin story of your fourth kid. Okay, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. How did that come about?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Okay, so think of it this way. We have rules of the road for all kinds of things. Like so muggers can't run down the street and grab your purse and run away with it. Right. So everybody drives on the right hand side of the street and not the left hand side of the street. Right. So we have had laws that we've built up through decades for ways that you don't get cheated on financial products. And that's a word we use. It just sounds, you know, it's credit cards and checking accounts and mortgages and car loans, student loans, that sort of thing. So these rules were passed by the federal government, apply to everybody. But here's the trick. By the 1990s, early 2000s, those rules were spread among seven different federal agencies. And for none of those agencies were they the agency's first job. They weren't the second job. They weren't the third job. They weren't even the ninth job for some of these agencies. Well, now the side hustle. Exactly how often do you get to your ninth job on your list? And the answer is not really at all. So a group of guys figured out, you know, we could make some money by putting together mortgages that scam people.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Warren]

You know. Yep. And so they started doing it. This is in the early 2000s. And by golly, it worked. Subprime mortgages did some more. And they did some more. They're called subprime mortgages. Ultimately, the banks got involved. Ultimately, it nearly brought down our entire economy and more. What came out of this was the big crash of 2008. More than 10 million families across this country lost their home. Homes. Millions of people lost their savings, millions of people lost their jobs. And frankly, we had to have a bailout from taxpayers. We came within inches of the entire economy worldwide melting down over this. So coming out of it, one of the big questions is, how do you make sure this doesn't happen again? And so there were a lot of different people talking about this. And I said, look, how about we take all those same consumer laws? We don't need a bunch of new stuff. Just take those same consumer laws, put them with one agency, and then hold that agency responsible for enforcing the law. And that little agency was the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. So remember, I'm just a teacher at this point. I am not a senator, I'm not a person in Washington. So I start knocking on doors and trying to pitch people, hi, my name's Elizabeth. Would you like to vote for an agency? So anyway, thing makes it through into law. President Obama asked me to come to Washington, set it all up agency. I then didn't stay to run it. The Republicans wouldn't let me. So I go back to go back to teaching. But here's the deal. That little agency has been effective for just a little over a dozen years. And in that period of time, they have discovered 21 billion. That's with a B dollars in scams against the American people. And here comes the best part. They not only found the scams, they didn't just say shame on you to the bad guys. They made them actually return the money directly to the people who got cheated. So this is a little agency that has actually helped over 200 million people get money back when they got cheated. Plus little side bonus. It runs a hotline for anyone who wants to file a complaint. And about 7 million people have used it to get back anything from $35 for an overdraft fee that you should not have been charged to $10,000 or more when someone wouldn't return the money that they'd put down for an escrow for something that fel. So this is the agency that just makes sure it's a level playing field. You get out there to spend your money, to take out a loan to start a business. You don't get scammed on it. You don't get cheated, you don't get tricked, you don't get trapped. So that's the agency and by golly, it works.

[Vivian Tu]

I'm now in the business of naming and shaming. So I'd love to talk about what are some of the largest settlements or cases that the CFPB has worked on and gotten Dollars back into American wallets.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Oh, so here's a good one. You've heard of Wells Fargo, right? Wells Fargo, I'm looking at you. So a few years back, the CEO of Wells Fargo decides that he, compared with the other giant banks, wants to show that Wells Fargo is on the rise. Wells Fargo is making it big. Right. So how are you going to do that? And he has an idea. And that is he's going to grow the number of accounts. Okay, that sounds good. How many checking accounts Wells Fargo has? How many credit cards Wells Fargo has? And so he says to the Wells Fargo team, get out there and get me more checking accounts, get me more credit cards. And in the first quarter, people make a little rise and not enough from the point of view of the CEO and the management team. So they flog the workers. Oh, yeah, harder and harder and harder. And somebody gets the idea, just make it up. So they take Vivian too, and yes, she has an account with Wells Fargo. So they have her financial information and her Social Security number, and guess what, they just put her down for having a car loan as well and a credit card, you know, and after another month, how about another credit card for Vivian? Of course, never tell you. Of course, never send you any of the paperwork. And the consumer customer doesn't actually know this. Maybe if you read your credit report, you'll see it on your credit report. Maybe not. It may never get reported properly. Maybe your credit score goes down because guess what, you're not paying on those accounts. So they opened fake accounts for millions of people across this country. Real people, real people. And the consumer agency actually dived in, founded, called them out, prosecuted folks under this, got penalties imposed. And here, from my point of view, comes the best part of all. What came out of all that is everybody got money back who'd been hurt. All this gets canceled out. People's credit gets cleaned up all like it should. But the CEO that had this brilliant idea got fired. You know, there, it's not perfect, but the ARC bends toward justice sometimes. And that's what the CFPB does.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, just getting people and corporations to take accountability.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yes, that's exactly right. You know, I think that was part of what really got me is when the scandal finally came out, the CEO of Wells Fargo blame the workers who are making $12 and $15 an hour and said, oh, it was all them. They were the ones who came up with the idea of cheating people. And the answer is no, they didn't. And you know they didn't. This was you. And you flogged this. And now you gotta stand up and take some responsibility for what you've done.

[Vivian Tu]

Mm. And we've seen the headlines. The cfpb, it's in hot water right now.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

What if it were to go away for good?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Okay, so here's what's happened. So CFPB is just ginning along, doing its thing, running its consumer complaint hotline.

[Vivian Tu]

Running it, which, to be clear, this feels very bipartisan. This feels like this benefits everybody, should be taught.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Listen, you can get scammed whether you're a Democrat, a Republican, an independent, a libertarian, a vegetarian. I mean, this is across the board.

[Vivian Tu]

If you live in this economy, if you spend money, if you use financial products, if you use consumer products, if you work with corporations and are a patron of them, you can get scammed.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Absolutely. And the agency is just the cop on the beat. This is how you have to think of it. The agency is there to say to the ones that might scam you, no, no, no, back up. Or if they have scammed you, to say you got to give the money back and. And to beat them back. And I'm going to be blunt. It's not there to keep you from making bad decisions. You make bad decisions, that's on you. You decide to buy stuff you shouldn't buy, that's on you. It's there to say the playing field is level. It's there to say that if you want to take out that loan and try that new business, you can concentrate on the business and not on whether they're cheating you back on page 14 of the loan documents. That's what this is about. It's just level playing field. So you can concentrate on getting out there and launching your business or getting your financial house in. So agency is ginning along, doing really, really good work. Donald Trump gets elected President of the United States and in comes his co president Elon Musk, who decides that he's just going to shut the agency down. And he posts on X cfpb, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau RIP and does his tombstone emoji because he thinks it's really clever to shut down a federal agency. So here's what happens when I say shut down. They literally went in and told everybody to get out of the building like it's a fire drill or something, and then lock the doors and then told everyone, do not do any work on behalf of American consumers. None at all. And if you hear that someone in this agency is trying to help some consumer somewhere in America who's getting cheated or scammed, report them to this number so that we can take disciplinary action. So in effect, they send all the cops home.

[Vivian Tu]

But also, the snitching on your neighbor thing, it feels a little. It feels a little like. I don't even want to say this, but like, Gestapo Y. Is that like. But like. Yeah, yeah.

[Elizabeth Warren]

So the next week, we have the chairman of the Federal Reserves in front of the Banking Committee in the Senate. I'm on this committee in the Senate. So I ask him, I say, I remember how this thing got built, how we built the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Now that Elon Musk has sent everybody home and locked the doors and told them not to come back. Who exactly is the cop on the beat now? Who's making sure you're not getting scammed on your credit card or your student loan or your car loan or your mortgage, any. Anything that you're working on? And the chairman of the Federal Reserve said, no one. There is no cop on the beat out there. So that means right now, just think of it this way. For anybody who's listening, maybe somebody out there is listening to us right now who has a credit card, it's got a big target on it. Maybe somebody out there has a checking account, big target. Maybe somebody uses Venmo. Anything you've got in this financial product space. Right now, you're living in a world where there's no complaint hotline and there's no cop on the beat to protect you.

[Vivian Tu]

That is very scary.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yes, it is.

[Vivian Tu]

Because where would we go to complain if something happened?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Now you got basically nothing.

[Vivian Tu]

That is very, very scary. You've often compared financial products to toasters, saying, we wouldn't allow companies to sell toasters if one in every five would potentially have the opportunity and ability to burn down your home.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Right.

[Vivian Tu]

But when you actually first pitched the idea of the cfpb, what was like the pushback from the banking industry? Why didn't, like, companies want this to be a federal agency? Why didn't they want to be regulated?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Right? So the toaster example comes from the fact that at the time I wrote this, now this is just before the 2008 crash, one in every five mortgages that was being issued, in fact, was blowing up and forcing the family into losing their home, into foreclosure. And here was the deal. Those mortgage companies didn't even have to tell the families that's what they were doing. They could push a mortgage in front of you that they knew what it meant to have all of the little twists and turns back in the fine print. But There was no way the family knew what was going on. And this is how so many people lost their homes. So my pitch for the CFPB was in effect. Hey, look guys, we have regulations over toasters. They can't burst into flames and burn down your house and still be able to be sold in department stores. We need the same kind of thing for mortgages. Now here's what's funny about all funny, not funny, haha.

[Vivian Tu]

Here's what funny, funny, weird.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yeah, funny weird about all of this. So the bankers, remember they have just gotten a $700 billion bailout from the U.S. taxpayer. Everyone knows we're have to rewrite these financial laws. They fought back. They hire a zillion lobbyists. They're paying more than a million dollars a day to lobbyists. It was a great job for a while in there, but the one thing they said, whatever goes through in this law, it will not have the consumer agency in it. We'll put up with all the other stuff you want to do on capital reserve requirements and oversight and bank vision and Glass, Steagall Volker rule, but not that cfpb.

[Vivian Tu]

They were scared.

[Elizabeth Warren]

That's right. And in a sense, they were exactly right. Because what the cfpb found is $21 billion in fraud in a dozen years. And here's the thing, that's 21 billion they found. When you've got a cop on the beat that's actually clawing through and finding the fraud, think how much fraud didn't happen because the banks looked up and thought, well, damn, better not. Better not. That's right. We're just not. This is not going to be great for us if we do. But the banks, they don't like it and they never have. The big lenders don't like it. But you know who especially, especially, especially doesn't like it? Elon Musk.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. And I think a big part of some of the criticism that he may have about the CFPB is that he thinks it has too much power and that it curbs financial innovation. What is your response to that?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Okay, so here's the deal. Right now, the cfpb, just like I said, all it is, is the no tricks and tracks agency. That is the law. Like I said, you innovate, you build stuff, you can do whatever kind of financial. You can do what you want with Venmo. But CFPB is always there to make sure Venmo's not tricking you. They're not putting a hidden charge in. They're not getting you tangled up in some kind of financial thing you can't get out of. The CFPB does the same thing for these platforms, these money platforms. So back up a little. Elon Musk buys Twitter, turns it into X, loses buckets of money. Buckets and buckets. Whoa. Wheelbarrows full of money. But his big plan and what he keeps telling the other investors is I'm going from X to X money. And so he wants to have the money platform that will take all of your social media information and the financial information he gets from X money because he handles your transactions, your financial transactions unite that information, monetize that information. And let's see, how do you describe the richest man in the world, becomes a richer man in the world, make more money off this. He has just one little bump in the road. And that one little bump in the road is a CFPB will be there. Not to say he can't do it. That's not what CFPB does at all. Others have already done it. CFPB says totally get it. You want to run a money platform, that's fine. But our job is just to make sure you're not tricking people, you're not trapping them, you're not scamming them. Elon thinks that's reason enough to claim that they are stopping innovation. Well, maybe they're stopping innovative scams, but. But he says reason enough to shut them down.

[Vivian Tu]

I think this is a little frustrating for me because I transparently didn't even know about the ex money piece of this. But recently, like a month or so ago, I was sick.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

And I ended up reading an article about surveillance pricing because I, like so many other people, was sitting on my couch, coughing, hacking up a lung, doordashing myself, some sudafeds, some cough drops, all that stuff. And turns out when companies are able to get plethora of your data, get your financial information at the same time, they can very literally charge you versus me a different price because they can somehow tell the person who just googled is my phlegm green. Is that a bad sign? Is sick. And what is your concern about surveillance pricing? Aside from the fact that I don't want to pay twice as much for Mucinex than a regular healthy person.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Exactly right. And by the way, CFPB was right in the middle of surveillance pricing. Right. That this is one of the issues along with the FTC on this Federal Trade Commission. So I look at it this way. In this country we've dealt with this problem about discriminatory pricing before. And we've got a problem right now, and that is big companies and little companies. And there's something called the Robinson Patman Act. Now, I don't want to get too boring here, but I will do my best. And that's a law that we passed way back in the 1930s to say you can't discriminate against little companies in pricing. And yet that law has been laid down and not used. So here's what has happened over time because the law has not been well enforced. Walmart goes in and cuts this really rock bottom price deal to get paper towels at all of its Walmart stores and the bodega on the corner. The price the bodega has to pay, wholesale price, is higher than Walmart is selling them for retail. So what the Robinson Patman act says is big guys and little guys, you gotta charge the same. Now the reason for that is a point about competition, and that is we want little businesses to have as much chance as big businesses of making it in this country. I get it. Walmart does many things very efficiently. But Walmart needs competitors and we need to keep those competitors in the game. And the only way we keep them in the game is to have level pricing. I think of that the same way in this issue you use. If I can collect information about you and know that you're sick, then I can do surveillance pricing and say I'm going to raise the price for you. But it looks like Elizabeth is somebody who's shopping more and she doesn't really care. Maybe she's on the margin. You can not only differentially price under something like being sick. Think about for somebody trying to start a business, think about somebody who's trying to make it just to the end of the month in your family. Think about the things that drive up the need for a particular item. If we wipe people out because they're sick, because they got four more days to make it to the end of the month because they're trying to launch their own business, then ultimately in this country what we end up with is we end up with a handful of giants, right? The Walmarts of the world. And no. Small businesses, new businesses, exciting new ways of wiring things together. And we miss the vibrancy and opportunity that otherwise we would be able to generate.

[Vivian Tu]

And aside from just vibrancy and opportunity, there's a reason why we have antitrust laws.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Bingo.

[Vivian Tu]

Because, you know, let's talk about this a little bit. Why is it bad for one company to be the only company that can sell paper Towels, right?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Because you want to know what paper towels are going to cost then. And because the company, once you're the only company in town, not only is your price through the roof, but your service is in the toilet. Because if they gotta buy from you regardless, are you really getting your fanny up early in the morning to be able to get out there and hustle and get those paper towels out the door? Are you willing to make that emergency run late in the evening? No. And are you willing to innovate? What if somebody has a better idea? A thicker A2 ply, a fill in the blank? Why would you bother investing in that? Because you are the only game in town. And if you can keep the competitors out, then prices go up, service goes down, and innovation dies.

[Vivian Tu]

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[Elizabeth Warren]

Oh, so I love that you asked this and I love that you talk about this over and over and over. So look, but part of the deal is you can't protect what you don't know about. So first of all, just make sure you really have a full inventory. Every place that you're spending money, every one of these financial products that you've got. Are you sure you know what you've got and what you're spending on it? And I mean that in the nicest way possible. It's easy to lose Track.

[Vivian Tu]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Warren]

And these guys are smart. They do things like they sell you a credit card and they say, oh, low, low interest rate of 2.9%. And you think, oh, for 10 days you just hit it. Exactly right. And the idea is they count on the fact people get busy, they've got lives where a lot's going on, and they forget to look at that credit card again. And before they know it, that credit card is at 24.99% and another six up to 35%. So one of the things you gotta do is kind of keep track what are your financial products and watch out for the places that the prices are rising without your seeing them.

[Vivian Tu]

That is a really, really good piece of advice. I also want to pivot and talk a little bit about taxes and changes with this new administration. I did a whole episode on this for my podcast. But with Trump's proposed tax plan, ultimately it would lead to tax cuts for the richest 5% of Americans and increase for all other groups. And I actually made it very clear to my audience. I told them what I made and I said, this tax policy benefits me, but I don't necessarily need a 2% cut on my taxes at the expense of a young single mom being able to put food on her kids table. What other ramifications could this tax plan have?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Okay, so right now the plan is to cut taxes for the millionaire billionaire class and giant corporations.

[Vivian Tu]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Warren]

And the idea is that the Republicans are proposing right now, Donald Trump and Elon Musk all in. It will cost the government about $4.6 trillion with a T in revenue. So here is the Republican plan to deal with it, because they recognize adding $4.7 trillion to national debt, real problem. So their plan is to make a bunch of cuts to try to offset that or at least chip it back down. So I'll give you some of the cuts. What they want to do is cut the support that seniors in nursing homes get. So about two out of every three people in a nursing home don't have enough money to pay the nursing home bill. They may have a little Social Security, but that's it. They don't have a home, they don't have any savings. So right now, the federal government puts a check in so that the nursing home can stay open and have people who work there and be able to feed folks. They want to cut that. And this is the question, Vivian, what happens to those seniors? They have nowhere to go. They're not able. This is the whole point. They're not able to earn money I think the plan is just to set them out on the corner with last night's trash and let somebody pick them up.

[Vivian Tu]

It feels like a very K shaped divergence of the haves continue to have more and more and more while the have nots. Things are gonna get bad. And a subset of the population that I'm really most worried about is the middle class. What's gonna happen to them?

[Elizabeth Warren]

You know, that's the thing. It's all the way through. So let me just give you an example there. Maybe you know someone who was in a horrible accident and needs care, someone to be able home health care. Or maybe you have a good friend who has a child with a severe disability to be able to go to public school. Kid needs an aide. That's two places that right now the Republicans in Congress and Donald Trump are planning to cut. The home health aides for people with severe disabilities, the aid for the kid in public school, and I raise those because this is a part of this great country. We don't know up front who's going to have a baby that has significant disabilities. We don't know up front whose sister is going to be in a terrible accident.

[Vivian Tu]

Cancer does not discriminate.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Exactly. We don't know up front whose grandma is going to outlive the little bit of savings she had. So all of us every year pitch in a few of our nickels and the idea is, please God, I hope everything's good in our family. But if not, the rest of us are going to be there to help. The rest of us will be there with help for the kid, help for the family, help for your friend. And what Donald Trump and Elon Musk want to do is they want to say, nope, that's too expensive. We don't want to help those people. Those people will just simply have to do without so that Elon Musk and a handful of others can get a bigger tax giveaway. This, this to me right now is the fundamental question in our country, what do you think government is supposed to do? Do you think it's supposed to be there to say after you've made it big, you just get to keep sucking it all up? Or do we say, you know, here's how I think of this. You made it big. Good for you. Fabulous. Wonderful. Can I get out the confetti? And I'll do the horn. The whole business. Fabulous to make it big. Fabulous to make it. Get to get rich. But always remember, you had a little help along the way. Certainly you got your goods to market. On roads and bridges. All of us help pay for. You got to hire a workforce that was educated. All of us helped pay just a little to help educate. You were protected by police and firefighters. All of us help pay the salaries for. And we are happy to do it. All of us. All of us, all of us, we all pitch in. You worked your tail off. You had the really smart idea. You made the good decision, you took the risks. Absolutely. You should be rich from that. But when you make it big, when you make it really big, I mean, top of the heat big, you gotta pay some. So the next kid gets a chance to make it big. That's all this is about.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, I absolutely agree. I also want to get your POV on the country's overall financial picture right now. Listen, I don't want to call anybody broke, but $36 trillion in debt, that doesn't really feel good. The last time we were out of this deep deficit was during the Clinton administration. What's the plan here? Like, how are we getting out of this debt hole as a country?

[Elizabeth Warren]

So can I make this even worse before we talk about solutions? So you are exactly right on this. It is a terrible debt hole. But that ain't all. Yeah, the chaos. Donald Trump playing red light, green light with tariffs with Canada and Mexico. Who invests under those circumstances? Do you want to start a business that may depend on maple syrup as part of it when it's all coming from Canada? Or guacamole if you need those avocados from Mexico. So it chills business investment and new startups and people who want to get something going. That's very worrisome. And I'm gonna give you one more that it just worries me deeply and that is how much we're not making here in the United States. So remember you said you had a cold. I don't know if you had to get a prescription. But for anybody listening, if you've had a prescription filled, 9 out of 10 chances are that prescription was made in Asia and that the ingredients likely came from China. So if we get into a back and forth with any of those countries, I hope nobody needs any antibiotics or any other medication. There's an area we should be bringing more on shoring. We should be bringing that production here. Or let me give you another one. That worries me. Kind of keeps me up at night. I think of chips as what it's going to take to build a future. A lot of what we build. Right. Everything from cars. Exactly.

[Vivian Tu]

Everything has a chip.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Brushes.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Everything's got A brush. It's true. They. They all have a chip in them. Now, right now, there are different kinds of chips, but they all have chips. Twenty years ago, the United States was making all those chips. Today, we make 12% of those chips. And for the fancy schmancy chips, the ones that go into AI, we are making virtually none of them. So again, you're talking about building blocks. They are not here. And I'll give you one more, and that is, if you look back to the year 20. 20. I'm sorry, 2000. Go back about 20. Almost 25 years now. The United States had three times the manufacturing capacity of China. Just to give you the two leaders now, China has three times the manufacturing capacity of the United States. So all of this, I'm just trying to pull it together. The debt is the financialization, the capacity to manufacture here and have some control over our supply chains and the things we should be making. Right? And the chaos of Donald Trump doing this, red light, green light on tariffs and sandstorms around laying people off and who's in, who's out. Do we have food inspectors? All of that swirls together to make for a very, very dangerous moment in the economy.

[Vivian Tu]

That's heavy. Let's pivot into our rapid fire section, because I feel like that's a great point for us to stop. I'm gonna give you a financial product. You're gonna tell me what consumers should watch out for in one sentence, very quick.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Okay, I'm ready.

[Vivian Tu]

Payday loans.

[Elizabeth Warren]

No. The whole business model is to trap you. They make their money by getting people to borrow in the first place and then never letting them out. So go somewhere else for cash.

[Vivian Tu]

Credit card rewards programs.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Okay, but understand, you are paying for those miles or that's cash back or whatever it is. So just treat it like you would any other purchase. What are you getting in return for running your credit card through these guys as opposed to someone else? Shop, shop, shop.

[Vivian Tu]

Buy now, pay later services.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Ooh. Do you know why they do four payments? So they can escape the regulation that makes sure they're not scamming you.

[Vivian Tu]

Really?

[Elizabeth Warren]

That is the truth. You notice they didn't pick five, they didn't pick six because that would have triggered the law. So they got the maximum number of payments, four. That kept them under the threshold of certain laws. That means be very, very careful. Credit cards are much more highly regulated, which means at least there's a set of rules around them, as opposed to buy now, pay later.

[Vivian Tu]

And with a credit card, as long as you pay your Credit card bill in full, on time, every single month. Those rewards programs are cool.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Oh, you bet.

[Vivian Tu]

I love going to a hotel for free.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I like the cash back ones myself because that always, that is like the best money ever. You know, when you get that check back and you think, I earned it. Yeah, I earned it.

[Vivian Tu]

Credit card interest rates, they're in flux. What's going on?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Okay, so look, they are and they're very sticky. When inflation comes, the credit card interest rates jump way up, but they don't come down very fast. So here's the deal. Don't ever pay any if you can help it. This is one of those. You said it exactly right, Vivian. If you can pay off your credit card in full every month, month, then a credit card is a real convenience. And in fact, you get float on, on the money, it's fab. But as soon as you start installment payments on it, it is high priced credit.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, crypto lending platforms.

[Elizabeth Warren]

So it depends. I want to be. Look, there are a lot of folks out there kind of playing around with crypto, trying to figure out what's going on. This is one of those where I want to say, be careful, not set hair on fire over it, but be very careful. One partly because right now this is not regulated. So there's a lot of what they used to call rug pulls and hog butchering. The ways to scam you have their own names. You'll feel better if you get scammed and know it had a name. Not really. Not really. So you've got to be very cautious here. I think there are people who want to buy a little, see if it'll go up, see if it'll go down. There are other people who just say, you got to be kidding me. There's nothing here.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, home equity, lines of credit.

[Elizabeth Warren]

So HELOCs can be good in the sense that it's a lower interest rate. They are bad in the sense that if something goes bad, bad, wrong, and you can't pay it off, you lose your house. So you take out a heloc. You gotta have a really solid plan for how you're gonna pay it back. Savings accounts, you know, kind of nice and dusty again. Talk about interest rates, man. The minute they hear the word inflation, I almost hate to say it, someone out there, you know, it's like, oh my gosh, on the interest rates, they won't pay fast. When interest rates are going up, they look, they gotta make money on it. That's what they're gonna do. But it is a nice way to have A little money put aside for your cash reserves. Long term investment, you should have a better plan. But short term investment or just like I say, a little backup so you don't have to go to the payday loans, so you don't have to finance things on your credit card. It's a nice backstop in a well managed full portfolio of your money.

[Vivian Tu]

I love that. These were excellent responses. We are coming up on time. But I do have two final questions for you and they're a little bit, I would say, big picture. What's your advice for young people who want to make the financial system work better for everyone?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Oh, so bless your hearts, one and all, raise your voice. Let your senator, let your congressperson know that you want the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, your cop on the beat, to be there for you. And I know that sounds a little like, oh, really? You know. Yeah, really. Because the one thing that has saved this agency from the beginning, just a little side note, this agency has been in trouble many times before. It's gone to the Supreme Court twice. The banks have tried to kill it off, the Republicans have tried to kill it off. And every time it comes back, it comes back because the people who have used it, it love it and they are happy it is there. So now is the moment. We gotta get out there and defend it. The best way to do that, number one, your reps and your senators. Number two, tell your story on social media why you support the cfpb. I love it. I walk around and people will walk up to me and say, you know, I just got cheated out of $50 and here's what it was. And I wrote them three times and they wouldn't do squat for me. And then I just filed a complaint and eight days later it was all straightened out. Tell those stories, pass those stories along. Ultimately, in this fight, the power is with the people who are listening to this show.

[Vivian Tu]

I love that. And if you could change one thing about how Americans think or handle their money, what would it be?

[Elizabeth Warren]

It would probably be to think of your money in terms of the good things you can do with it.

[Vivian Tu]

Yep.

[Elizabeth Warren]

First, keep yourself safe. Do good things with it, have some fun with it, and don't spend all your time thinking about money. The best part about money is when you kind of got it set up in a good way. And you can spend your time on launching a business, you can spend your time on going back to school if that's what you want to do. You can spend your time on this new family that you're just helping get off the ground and go. Money is not the end goal. It's the peace that helps you be able to do the things you want to do. And so I hope for everyone that they're able to do that. Which lets me say one back to you. I cannot tell you how happy I am that you do this show with your bff.

[Vivian Tu]

Thank you.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Every week money is one of those things many people don't like to talk about.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Warren]

And they need a BFF who will listen to them and talk to them about these hard money issues and to know. Yeah, we're all kind of pushing and pulling to understand it, to make sure we make wise decisions. We feel bad when we make make bad decisions. But you're out there like a good friend every single week there to urge us all on and I think it's fabulous.

[Vivian Tu]

Thank you so much. I really can't appreciate, you know, you enough for saying that. And honestly, you're right. Money isn't about having the Lamborghini. It's about having options, freedom, and the ability to live your life unrestricted. And on that note, Senator Warren, thank you so much for being on Net Worth and Chill.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Thank you for having me.

[Vivian Tu]

Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of Net Worth and Chill, part of the Vox Media Podcast network. If you liked the episode, make sure to leave a rating and review and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Got a burning financial question that you want covered in a future episode? Write to us via podcastourrichbff.com follow Net Worth and Chillpod on Instagram to stay up to date on on all podcast related news and you can follow me at your rich BFF for even more financial know how. See you next week. Bye. Thanks to Brooklinen for their support. Stop tossing and turning in your bed every night because of those old and worn out sheets. It's time to get yourself some new essentials from Brooklinen. Brooklinen sheets are tried and true. With 200,000 plus 5 star reviews and millions of happy customers. Brooklinen's customizable bundles make it easy to refresh your bed and bathroom by putting everything you need in one one place. Their super high quality products have been tested and awarded by experts including Good Housekeeping, GQ Wire Cutter and more. Shop award winners and fan faves in store online at brooklinen.com that's B R O-O-K L I N E N.com get 15 off your first order today.