← Networth and Chill with Your Rich BFF
Networth and Chill with Your Rich BFF
Navigating the Expenses of Wedding Dresses & High Fashion
00:58:17
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- [00:00]
A
Haute couture pieces. People are spending, like, upwards of, like, $500,000 for one piece for themselves.
- [00:05]
B
What?
- [00:06]
A
Yeah.
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B
And $500,000 is a house.
- [00:09]
A
Exactly. Literally everything you just said, like, resonates so, so much.
- [00:21]
B
What's up, rich friends? Welcome to another episode of Net Worth and Chill. I'm your host, Vivian Tu, AKA you're Rich, bff, and your favorite Wall street girly. Today we are taking a look at a very special moment. My wedding. As many of you know, I tied the knot in June in Italy, and let's just say I went all out and I am still financially recovering. Like, literally, that tiger king meme of, like, oh, I will never financially recover from this. That's me. I had not one, not two, but three dresses for my special day. And I know, I know it's a little excessive, but I'd been saving up for this moment. And in particular today, I want to talk a little about luxury fashion, because I feel like it's one of the most hotly talked about topics amongst the BFFs. There are some people who pride themselves on getting the authentic stuff, some people who love dupes and inspired fashion, and a lot of folks, myself included, do a little bit of both. And regardless, the global luxury fashion market is not going anywhere. In 2023, it was valued at nearly $300 billion, with designer labels leading the charge in setting trends. And with the rise of social media, more people are seeing designer goods and custom gowns as the norm rather than the exception. So today, I've invited my personal friend and expert designer, who even designed one of my stunning wedding dresses. Everyone, please welcome Andrew Kwan. Hi, Andrew. Thank you so much for being here.
- [01:53]
A
Thanks for having me. I'm so excited.
- [01:55]
B
Okay, so before we get into it, because you have a lot of really fantastical, beautiful language around your brand, I'm gonna ask you a really simple question. In your own words, what do you do for a living?
- [02:10]
A
I make pretty dresses that people like wearing and I don't know, that are supposed to make you feel good. And, you know, I like to make, like, the dreams of women that are wearing it, you know, become a reality and sort of be a part of their life in some way. Yeah. And I'm not like a doctor or something, so I'm not saving lives, but this is my own little way of doing it.
- [02:37]
B
Yeah, I love that. And what made you want to become a designer?
- [02:42]
A
Well, I was not good at a few other things.
- [02:44]
B
Oh, wait, okay. What were the other things? Tell us.
- [02:46]
A
So I did. I did Architecture and interior design. I never heard a professor say that I was good.
- [02:53]
B
Not once.
- [02:54]
A
No.
- [02:55]
B
Okay.
- [02:55]
A
And I cried almost every night. I had to stay out. And all my other friends would be, like, so excited doing work. And I'd be like, why am I in this school doing this?
- [03:05]
B
Yeah.
- [03:05]
A
And then one day, a professor was like, why don't you do fashion design? And I was like, I don't know. And I told my parents, and they also were like, you should do what you want to do. So I somehow switched. But, yeah, even before that, though, before, I used to say, I want to be a fashion designer growing up, but I think I didn't say it anymore because I was so scared and afraid of all the stigma that comes around, you know, being a guy that wants to be in fashion. So, I don't know. At one point, I said, I want to be a dermatologist.
- [03:40]
B
And another thing, you have great skin, by the way. Yay.
- [03:44]
A
But, yeah, I mean, there's so many things that I said wanted to be, but fashion design was always one that was in the back of my head that I really wanted to do.
- [03:52]
B
So you talked about the stigma of, like, being a male fashion designer. Like, what did you mean exactly by that? Was that like, just, like, you know, the connotations of the designer itself or, like, you know, the work?
- [04:04]
A
I would say that, you know, because depending on where you grew up. I grew up in the Midwest for a big part of my life, so living in Colorado, in smaller towns, I think, you know, there wasn't a lot of guys that acted like me and looked like me and, like, things that I like. So, you know, in the way of, like, being lgbtq, whatever. And so I think, you know, when. I remember when they would ask you in school, what do you want to be when you grew up and some people were, like, a football player or whatever else at that time, no one was saying influencer, anything like that, or YouTuber. But I would write fashion designer.
- [04:46]
B
Yeah.
- [04:48]
A
And I remember later when I wrote that, a lot of guys said something and they were like, oh, that's really girly.
- [04:54]
B
Yeah.
- [04:55]
A
Or they would be. You know, they would use a lot of words surrounding what girly would mean to a guy. And were they using the word gay.
- [05:01]
B
As, like, a slur?
- [05:02]
A
Yes, all the time. And I think that's one of the biggest reasons why I stopped saying it, that I wanted to be a fashion designer because I was so scared that guys were going to constantly be calling me that.
- [05:14]
B
Yeah.
- [05:16]
A
But, you know, that's something that I'M still proud of today. I'm like, honey, like, I'm so gay. I'm going to be doing whatever I want. I'm doing what I want.
- [05:23]
B
Yeah.
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A
So I'm proud and I'm happy.
- [05:25]
B
When did you actually come out? I don't think I know this about you, even though we're friends.
- [05:30]
A
Oh, my gosh. Well, we have more drinks to catch up on that because it's a crazy story, but, you know, I officially really came out, like, I want to say three and a half, three years ago.
- [05:42]
B
Yeah.
- [05:43]
A
But it was really out during high school. To my closest friends. Yeah, for sure.
- [05:47]
B
Yeah. Okay. And you know, you got into this design world. Normally when I talk to guests who are Asian, we talk about the joke of you have three routes to go. You can either be a lawyer, a doctor, or an engineer. And fashion designer doesn't fall into any of those categories. Like, but you said your parents were supportive.
- [06:11]
A
Yeah, my parents. I think that's why so many people are very surprised when they're fellow Asians. And everyone's always telling me, oh, my God, like, I would have loved to pursue the arts or, like, something. But, you know, my mom was a pianist growing up. My dad pursued soccer growing up. So they weren't really like the conventional Asian parents that you would think of. And, yeah, I mean, I remember my parents would always tell me that there was a school called Parsons growing up. And so that always stuck in my head. And when Google first became a thing, I would constantly Google that. And I think that always subconsciously lived in my head, even though I said I was going to be doing something else. And my brother ended up doing aerospace, and now he's in hedge fund and private equity.
- [07:06]
B
So he fulfilled that.
- [07:07]
A
So he fulfilled that. And so maybe that a little part of, you know, why my parents were like, do what you want, do what you love. But, you know, my parents, friends, as not as toxic as some Asian parents may be, but you know how a lot of parents are very competitive. Or they're asking their friends, oh, like, what school is your kid going to? What are they studying? Like, what was their gpa? What they got onto? Their sat act like every single thing you could think of. And people would always be asking about my parents, about my brother because he was so smart. And they would always ask, well, what is Andrew gonna do? And I think at the time they're like, you know, I think he's figuring it out.
- [07:47]
B
Yeah.
- [07:48]
A
And now those same parents are, like, reaching out to my parents, being like, oh, my God, we saw him on this. We saw him on that. Like, so proud. I'm like, liar, liar. I don't know. But, yeah, I'm lucky to have parents that are so supportive. And, you know, my mom got remarried, so my stepdad is even more supportive. But, you know, I know it's not a lot of people's situation, especially when you're Asian. Yeah. But, you know, I'm lucky.
- [08:17]
B
Yeah. That's amazing. And I'm so happy to hear that, because it's not the case for a lot of us.
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A
Exactly.
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B
But let's actually talk a little bit about the money.
- [08:26]
A
Yeah.
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B
When it comes to fashion, the folks at the very top of the pyramid are making a quillion dollars. But most people who are in fashion, you know, I'm just picturing even just like, the Devil Wears Prada, like, being an assistant and, like, you know, running around for little to no money. Like, did it ever worry you going into the fashion space that, like, you would not have money?
- [08:53]
A
Well, so I think one of the big obstacles of what was sort of made as an obstacle to me that made me not want to pursue fashion later around high school, I want to say is my dad would always tell me that people that are in fashion do not make a lot of money, and it's really hard to make a lot of money in fashion.
- [09:17]
B
Yeah.
- [09:18]
A
So that was one of the reasons why I also didn't want to do fashion. And I entered in as architecture and interior design. Graphic design, whatever it was.
- [09:26]
B
Yeah. Because you thought there would be more money in dermatology or.
- [09:32]
A
Yeah. Anything else.
- [09:32]
B
Literally anything else.
- [09:33]
A
Like, but. And. But I think even if it's like, oh, if you go and study architecture, you know, architects also, it's. It's hard to make a lot of money.
- [09:44]
B
Yeah.
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A
And, you know, just like anything in the arts. But, you know, I would say that I. When I was first getting experience, there's definitely a lot of internship or assistant opportunities where it's unpaid. Unpaid. Is that legal? I don't know.
- [10:06]
B
Not anymore. But, like, people still do it.
- [10:09]
A
Yeah. But, you know, unpaid. But, you know, when you're lucky enough to be in a position to get that experience and get those unpaid internships, I would even say the unpaid internships and fashions are the one that you probably learn the most from because you get very nitty gritty. When you go to a much bigger corporate place, like the ones that you mentioned that are making billions and billions of dollars, those are the ones where it's so corporate to the point where you Go in as an intern or assistant, and you're only focused on one project and that project and that section. Whereas when you're at a company that if it's unpaid or little to no pay, then it's like, you have to handle this. You're putting on this cap, you're putting on this cap, you're putting on this vest. So you're really getting that experience. And that's something that, you know, I did many, many times. I think I. Three or four places.
- [11:06]
B
Yeah. How are you supporting, supporting yourself during that time when you were doing all these unpaid internships? Was it help from family? Was it, you know, on the side you were waiting tables? Or like, how were you supporting yourself?
- [11:19]
A
I would say that I did save money from high school. Any birthday, any Christmas.
- [11:26]
B
Yeah.
- [11:26]
A
Any graduation gift that I got, you.
- [11:28]
B
Were like, I don't want presents. Cold hard cash, please.
- [11:30]
A
Yeah. I was like, okay, well, you know, the whole envelope thing, it's like, oh my God, thank you. And the money just drops on the floor.
- [11:37]
B
Yeah.
- [11:38]
A
No, but. No, but, you know, I also, I think my first job in high school was I was a busser at a table, like a waiter at a restaurant.
- [11:50]
B
Oh, a pho restaurant.
- [11:53]
A
And I think that's why when people see me now, they're like, are you sure? And I'm like, uh huh. So, you know, anything that I did in those moments, like, I tried saving money.
- [12:03]
B
Yeah.
- [12:04]
A
Um, but you know, entering college and being in New York, it's not a cheap place.
- [12:10]
B
Yeah.
- [12:10]
A
So I am really lucky that I was able to get support by my family and even like close family friends. And, you know, during those times, it's like, I know a lot of people that listen or hear this are gonna say, you know, you're lucky to be in that situation. Or some people are like, oh my gosh, like the whole word of Nepo baby is so overused now. And I'm by no means a Nepo baby at all. Not close. But I'm just lucky that, you know, even during high school when all my friends were going on these vacations and like, they're like, oh, I've been to Disney World like every single year for the past 16 years. And the first flight I ever took was in middle school. Yeah. And that was at 14. So that was the first plane I ever rode. And we never went on vacations. We never really had like the craziest cars or the craziest houses. But my parents saved every single thing that they had so that they could plan for when I'M in college and how to support. Because it's not just a tuition that I needed. I needed living expenses and for me to focus all my hard work and energy and time into school because I knew that I wouldn't be able to double and like work and part time at the same time.
- [13:24]
B
Yeah, I think that's a very immigrant thing. Like growing up, we had the smallest house in the best school district so that I could go to the best public school so my parents wouldn't have to spend on that. But also like, I remember being like, why am I driving a beat up Honda Accord with like the paint chipping off while other kids in the student lot had BMWs and Mercedes and things like that. But then those same kids didn't get any help from their parents for college or for school. And they, you know, even if they got into the school that they wanted to go to, they may have to have done two years at a community college or gone to our state school just because the tuition was cheaper. Whereas for me, the conversation with my parents was, if you can get in, we're going to help you pay for it. Even though, to your point, we didn't go on a lot of vacations, we didn't go out to eat, we didn't do any of that. Like, education, I feel like, is such a immigrant dream that I think our parents were willing to invest in it.
- [14:30]
A
That is so, you know, I can't believe we've never talked about this before, but literally everything you just said resonates so, so much. So obviously that's why you and I, like, we get along so, so well in our energy.
- [14:44]
B
Because among other things.
- [14:45]
A
Yeah, among other things too. But yeah, I felt like I was just talking when you were saying that because I absolutely, I went through that same thing. And you know, just like I've seen a lot of my other friends when I was growing up. It's like, okay, the parents were like, okay, here's maybe like 10,000 a year for school. Maybe, maybe seven, maybe.
- [15:06]
B
Yeah.
- [15:06]
A
And they're like, okay. But then I'm like, you guys had the nicest things growing up. The nicest house, the nicest vacation, the homes, the cars, whatever it was. But it's like, okay, 7,000, maybe 5,000 for college a year. Here you go. But I'm like, and I can never understand because maybe it's obviously like, you know, everyone, every family, every person has their own different values. And I think just maybe a lot of immigrant parents, maybe just our parents, whatever it is, we're so focused on if you can get into this school, I will do whatever I can to put you through it financially or whatever.
- [15:43]
B
And specifically, that school you were so obsessed with, Parsons, is where you ended up getting in.
- [15:51]
A
Yeah.
- [15:52]
B
So talk to me about that. Like, was it the only school you applied to? Like, how much does Parsons cost a year?
- [15:58]
A
I believe Parsons a year. I want to say tuitions. It is a private school.
- [16:05]
B
Yeah.
- [16:06]
A
So I want to say it's maybe like 46,000 a year.
- [16:10]
B
Yeah. And that's just tuition.
- [16:11]
A
Just tuition.
- [16:13]
B
But you have to live in New York.
- [16:14]
A
Yeah. And you have to live in New York. If you live in the dormitories, I believe at the time you don't get to live there during the summer. And I think dorms were $21,000.
- [16:25]
B
Jesus Christ.
- [16:26]
A
Yeah. So 21K.
- [16:28]
B
And that's when you went.
- [16:29]
A
Yeah.
- [16:29]
B
So now.
- [16:30]
A
Yeah, it's probably a lot more. Instead of like 46k or whatever for tuition. I'm sure it's like 60, 70 at this point. But Parsons was the only school I applied for. The only one I did not tell my parents. And I. And I, like, I remember when my brother did his college apps or whatever.
- [16:49]
B
Yeah.
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A
I would see him day in and day out applying. Yeah. Cause he applied to 12 schools and so I'm like watching all. And I just thought, God, how am I going to do that? But you know that I went to some college art fair for art schools. And I remember Parsons was there, but I just told my parents that I was applying to multiple schools and I only applied there.
- [17:12]
B
Thank God you got in.
- [17:12]
A
I know. God, can you imagine? What would I be doing right now? But yeah, I remember when the mail came in and I opened it and my mom was home and she was like, what is the New school? And I was like, it's Parsons. And she's like, no, I remember it's Parsons School of Design. What is Parsons? The New School for Design. And I was like, did I get into a school that like a different version or something? Or like, not that, but the New School actually bought Parsons.
- [17:47]
B
Yeah.
- [17:48]
A
And now has a lot of divisions under the New School. Parsons being the art division, band as being music laying, whatever.
- [17:55]
B
Yeah, well, so that education did end up paying off for you because you were able to parlay it into some incredible paid or unpaid internships. We won't name names, but you've worked for people like Vera Wang, Chloe Marquesa, like all of these massive luxury fashion labels. What do you think is like the biggest hot tip or thing that you learned while doing that, you know, I.
- [18:22]
A
Think they were all very different. Chloe. I remember first assisting with a lot of their market weeks, which is essentially when stylists and buyers are coming and seeing, previewing the new collections and seeing what they, you know, want to feature in their magazines or what they're buying for stores. And, you know, some of the people that we're working with, you know, the people that were like VPs and monod, would be like, bring style, like VC0078, the one with, like, the black stripe. And I would run back there and I was like, I need style.
- [18:55]
B
VC008 with a black stripe.
- [18:57]
A
I'll have a black stripe. So, you know, learning to quickly be on your feet. But I loved. I really loved Chloe when Claire Wright Keller was there at the time for creative director. And I loved the way that she did this boho feminism into her pieces and how everything was so flowy and, like a tonal color. That's what I loved there a lot. And, you know, as a Parisian fashion house and, yeah, that's what I learned there. To just be very quick on my feet.
- [19:30]
B
Like a bunny.
- [19:31]
A
Yeah. But I don't know what else. Marchesa. Marchesa was amazing working with, you know, some of the most iconically ethereal, beautiful red carpet moments.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And, you know, Hollywood and history and being able to touch and sew those gowns. And I remember right before the Runway show, there was a gown that we just had to sew all together. So we had 10 people working on it, and Women's Wear Daily was filming us, and Georgina's there saying something to them, and she's like, come back later. But in the most posh, elegant accent. The way that she carried herself, the way that her, you know, co creative director at the time, Karen Craig, carried herself is something that I looked at in women where I was like, oh, my gosh, look at the poise that they have and the way that they speak about the clothes and their creative direction and how they work alongside each other. That was inspirational. And Vera is someone that, you know, you wore Vera for one of your wedding gowns. And so it's, you know, Vera to a lot of us. And a lot of it's not just Asians either. I think people that have that dream of one day getting married, everyone. The first bridal designer or designer you think of is Vera.
- [20:47]
B
Yeah.
- [20:48]
A
And so she's someone that I've always, always wanted to work under, intern under. So it was interesting because, you know, she has not just her Bridal collection. She has her ready to wear line.
- [20:59]
B
Yeah.
- [21:01]
A
Which is such a different side from bridal for her. It's a lot more dark. It's a lot more.
- [21:07]
B
It's moody.
- [21:07]
A
It's very moody. It's very moody. So seeing the dichotomy of how she explores the world of her bridal but still tries to reinvent it for her modern vision of it, and then what she does is ready to wear. I think it's like a very cool way of her self expression and, you know, everything she's already achieved and what she's done, it's like, oh my God. Amazing.
- [21:29]
B
But can I ask you a stupid question?
- [21:31]
A
What?
- [21:31]
B
When you go on a luxury website and just pretend I don't know anything, like why are the clothes called ready to wear instead of just clothes? Cause like, if you go on like a regular website like the Gap, right. You can just be like shirts, pants, but like you go on a luxury site, it's like accessories, fine leather goods, ready to wear. It's like. What does that mean? It's just a fancy way of saying it.
- [21:57]
A
That's so funny you say that. I think now that I think of it. Yeah. Cause when you go on like Gap, it's not gonna say ready to wear, but I think.
- [22:06]
B
And there's nothing wrong with shopping at the Gap, by the way. I do sponsorship. Just kidding.
- [22:14]
A
But I would say, you know, I think it's because when you are in luxury fashion, there's different divisions as to what you're going into. So for instance, you know, with McQueen, you'll go on McQueen's website, you'll see that it says ready to wear. Ready to wear would mean the pieces that are in stock on the shelves within their stores and any of their stockists, whether it's Bergdorf, Neiman, Saks, you know, so that's what it means where a buyer will come in right after the fashion show, a week after, and say, hi, I love all the jackets in this. Let's do like 20 pieces of each for the store. And you know, Scottsdale at Neiman's or something, whatever it is, and they're like, okay, they write this down, they're writing the order, they're saying what's delivery date? Put in the order, they get it in, that's ready to wear. Whereas, you know, then they have their haute couture. And haute couture, or couture line is really something where you have to be accepted by the. There's a special group in France that really approve. If you go on this calendar. And O Couture really isn't off the shelf. And everything is really made to order, made to measure.
- [23:30]
B
Custom.
- [23:30]
A
It's custom. And you know, some of those pieces, especially when you're that type of a legacy fashion house designer, you know, O couture pieces, people are spending like upwards of like $500,000 for one piece for themselves.
- [23:44]
B
What?
- [23:44]
A
Yeah.
- [23:45]
B
And $500,000 is a house.
- [23:47]
A
Exactly. And people, you know, like. And these are people that. Okay, big reveal.
- [23:55]
B
Here we go.
- [23:56]
A
Oh, wow.
- [23:58]
B
You guys kind of get a first look at a completely removed copco number one. This is an area where there was not river sounds for over a hundred years.
- [24:08]
A
On this week's episode of Gastropod, we are telling a super exciting story about a river, but actually about fish.
- [24:15]
B
And in terms of fish, it's actually about one particular fish about salmon, but it's really about something that's incredibly exciting that will help salmon. It's about the world's largest dam removal project ever.
- [24:27]
A
That's right. This episode we are going to the Klamath river on the California Oregon border. It was once one of the world's great salmon rivers. We wanted to see what happens when you take a river away from salmon and how to go about giving it back.
- [24:42]
B
Find Gastropod and subscribe, wherever you get your podcasts.
- [24:47]
A
Love fashion, obviously have the money to be spending that much on it, but it's not like everything in o Couture is $500,000. You know, some people spend 70,000, 80,000, 90,000, but that also it's a lot of money for one piece. But I think people treat it as almost as art, like art jewelry in some sense. So yeah, I think that's why, you know, there's a different why people use that terminology of ready to wear, especially in the luxury industry.
- [25:16]
B
Yeah. Okay, so now that we've talked about what haute couture can cost, I want your POV on designer dupes, knockoffs and people like who are essentially like she inning and temuing like actual designers designs. What are your thoughts on that?
- [25:41]
A
Um.
- [25:46]
B
You guys, this is so funny because you're getting such a press trained version of Andrew. This is not what he's like when we are out at a bar. But like give us your real thoughts. Like what do you like what are your actual thoughts?
- [25:59]
A
I mean, I guess if it's not hurting anybody really, but God, I mean I personally wouldn't do it. Yeah, I personally wouldn't do it, but that's my decision.
- [26:14]
B
Yeah.
- [26:15]
A
And if you wanna do it, then you should. But you know, when people are, you know, buying these. When you say dupes, do you mean a counterfeit or like a lookalike?
- [26:26]
B
I think I want your opinion on both. Like what is your opinion on people being able to buy something that looks similar or inspired by versus buying something that's counterfeit?
- [26:37]
A
Okay, well, I mean something that's like a dupe and it sort of looks alike, you know, it's fine as long as. Not like a direct copy. When you are buying a direct copy or a counterfeit. I mean, I feel like it is a little sad because people are doing that because they want to sort of fit within social context. Yeah, exactly. And, and like I just, I don't, I don't. I wouldn't buy a counterfeit. Good. And I'm just like, eh. But if it's a dupe, I'm like, okay, like if it's like similar or whatever, like, you know, I've seen sneakers that I'm like, I don't feel like spending $1,400 on sneakers. And if I see a dupe, I'm.
- [27:22]
B
Like, okay, yeah, I don't need those ugly sock sneakers. No, but like, you know what?
- [27:26]
A
That's exactly what you're telling.
- [27:28]
B
We're not naming names. But I don't want to spend money on ugly sock sneakers. But if there are ugly sock sneakers that are $20 that you can still get a couple good uses out of and you feel good about it, like that's, that's cool.
- [27:40]
A
Yeah. But I mean the whole. I mean when I'm on TikTok and I'm scrolling through, I didn't even know what people meant by when they go, I'm going to show you what I got on the gate. And I was like, what is the gate?
- [27:54]
B
Dhgate?
- [27:55]
A
Yes. And I kept. And I didn't even know what dhgate was at the time, so. And then this really pretty girls pulling out and she's like zipping it. She's like, sounds just like the real one. And I was like, oh my God. So it must be a website. So I went on this website and I mean they can't even show the logos on the items. It's imagine the Louis Vuitton monogram logo. But it's like missing all the shapes and like all twisted and turned in weird ways. And I go. And I was like, what is this all about? Like, who's gonna wanna buy that? But I read the reviews and people's comments wrote, don't worry about the images that they're using it shows up just like the real one. So there's a whole world out there of counterfeit goods.
- [28:41]
B
Yeah.
- [28:43]
A
But, yeah.
- [28:44]
B
Do you think counterfeit good, like counterfeit goods are hurting the industry or potentially hyping it up even more?
- [28:53]
A
I would say hyping it up even more because people are seeing it more and more all around them.
- [28:59]
B
Yeah.
- [28:59]
A
And, you know, I think. But I guess it's different when who is buying those counterfeit goods?
- [29:08]
B
Wait, talk to me about that.
- [29:09]
A
I mean, if it's, you know, someone that lives in a 25, $30 million home and drives the nicest cars and, you know, they have a lot of actual luxury good items and they throw some of those counterfeit goods in, how would you know unless you're like, you know, unless you're like a Tiffany Moon where you're like, I know that stitches off on that right side by about a centimeter from a video.
- [29:34]
B
Yeah.
- [29:35]
A
But, you know, a lot of people are not going to be like, oh, my God, I know.
- [29:38]
B
Yeah.
- [29:38]
A
Whereas, you know, I think sometimes when you're walking on the streets and you see some of that looks like you're like. Like, you know what I mean?
- [29:48]
B
Yeah. Like that bag is just off.
- [29:50]
A
Exactly. And I'm like, those shoes are also off and that hair and makeup is off today, too. But I'm not. No, I'm just joking. But. No, but I'm just, you know, I.
- [30:03]
B
Think I'm asking so much about this question because I am. I have recently been, like, rethinking my own consumption because I certainly own a lot of authentic designer goods and I love to buy them abroad. So I can get a discount with the exchange rate and get the VAT refund. But also, like, for more like, seasonal things, I don't like spending that much money on something that I don't feel like I can wear all the time. So I'm like, there's nothing wrong, in my opinion, with buying a similar item that isn't exactly the same, because who cares?
- [30:40]
A
Right?
- [30:40]
B
Like, people know I've got the cash to do it. It's just like, I'm going to buy what I want and I don't feel a need to prove anything to anyone anymore. I only buy things that I really, really personally like now.
- [30:50]
A
Right.
- [30:50]
B
But I don't think that was always the case. I mean, I definitely had, like, fake stuff like it straight up, just counterfeit goods, like, at some point, like, especially like end of college, early career, because that's what I thought I needed to be wearing.
- [31:05]
A
That's the whole thing where I'm going back to, like, when people have this pressure almost to fit in, fit in. Um, but, you know, I mean, as long as it's not hurting anyone, like, why not?
- [31:21]
B
Yeah. You have such a, like, free attitude. I love that. But I want to pivot. I want to talk a little bit about your namesake brand. You started your label, Andrew Kwan in 2021. How do you get a label off of the ground? Like, how does, like, I can't just wake up tomorrow and be like, ah, I'm going to start a fashion house. Vivienne, too. Like, how do you do that?
- [31:45]
A
Um, you just get your favorite sweater and you cut out the brand name and you put your own in and you take a photo of it and post it. No. Fuck. It's like, I spent all of 2020, I would say 2020, part of 20. No part of 2019 and 2020, developing this business plan.
- [32:12]
B
Why are you quoting when you like making air quotes when you say business plan?
- [32:16]
A
I've never been to. I never went to business school.
- [32:19]
B
Yeah.
- [32:20]
A
Owning a business is not what I exactly thought it was going to be like.
- [32:23]
B
Yeah.
- [32:24]
A
So when I say business plan with big air quotes, Finger quotes, huge air quotes, you know, So I graduated from school, from university in 2019.
- [32:35]
B
Yeah.
- [32:37]
A
I wasn't sure if I was going to go work somewhere or if I was going to start my own business. And I think a lot of my closest mentors to me were always telling me, you know, if you're getting this attention from some of the work you did in your final year at uni, why wouldn't you sort of write that rift and just go for it?
- [32:58]
B
Yeah.
- [32:59]
A
So I went to my parents and I was talking to them a lot. And, you know, my mom was a business owner and my stepdad is still a business owner. And he told me, listen, I want you to follow your dreams, but I don't want to get sucked into it. I'm semi retired for a reason.
- [33:21]
B
He's like, I'm not co signing anything.
- [33:23]
A
He's like, you know, I want to spend my free time with your mom not looking over your business and worrying about it. And I was like, okay. And. But, you know, lord and behold, he started getting sucked into it. Every time I ran into, like, an obstacle or a bump, I was calling him, asking him for advice. And he's been one of my greatest mentors and one of my heroes and someone that I look up to. And I'm lucky that you have that.
- [33:47]
B
Kind of relationship with him.
- [33:48]
A
You Know, it's like I keep saying business plan. Because what I learned from my stepdad is he would always tell me, listen, don't think about it in a crazy this step, this step, this module, this module way right now, why don't you write your life out as a movie script? And in this movie script, what's happening? What's the beginning, what's the middle? What's the end? What's between those three? And how are we getting there? What are you going to face when you run into? And just because you're writing it out doesn't mean that it has to stay that way. And what is. Like, write it as if it's a movie script, like a dream movie script. And so that's what I did. I kept typing and typing on my computer, and it was ongoing Google Doc document. And somehow I ended up pivoting, and instead of doing evening wear as what I thought I would be doing, I went into bridal, and I started seeing it as, okay, well, there's not going to be a lot of events happening. There's not gonna be a lot of red carpets happening. There's not gonna be galas, but I think girls are still going to want to get married somehow.
- [35:04]
B
And.
- [35:05]
A
Oh.
- [35:05]
B
Cause this was Covid.
- [35:06]
A
This was. Oh, yeah. When I graduated in 2019.
- [35:09]
B
Straight into COVID 19.
- [35:10]
A
Yeah, 2020. It was like, what was it, March? February? Yeah, one of those. And so I just started writing out that little movie script at home every day.
- [35:21]
B
And you are gonna become a wedding designer.
- [35:23]
A
Yeah. And I was like, okay. I was like, we'll see. So I wrote it out and I was like, huh? Like, but what's special to me other than red carpet and whatever? And my. The first wedding I went to was my mom's.
- [35:33]
B
Yeah.
- [35:34]
A
And I remember when I saw her walking down the aisle, she. She had these tears coming down her face. And something about that moment really touched me. And I remember when I talked to my mom after that, I was like, why are you crying? And she goes, I feel so guilty that I want to be happy and start a new chapter. And it doesn't feel fair to you and your brother and your dad. And, you know, something about that moment made me always think that I wanted to be there for other women in that important moment of their life, whether it's the first marriage or the second marriage or whatever it was, and have that type of emotional impact and how beautiful they're feeling when they're walking down the aisle in that dress. But, yeah, I mean, other than that. Moment. I would say that in the business perspective, I had a lot of bad apple friends that would like, meaning my friends were bad apples during the pandemic where they would meet up with each other when everybody was dying outside and they would be sneaking off to each other's houses in groups of like 15 people. And I would just be staying home. And I just thought, well, I'm sure that people are gonna still have weddings in like four months.
- [36:48]
B
Yeah.
- [36:48]
A
You. There's millions of people were engaged.
- [36:51]
B
Yeah.
- [36:52]
A
And then lord and behold, like you start seeing people posting. Had like a backyard wedding. Backyard weddings. Like still, it wasn't like 10, like some people did 10 people or some couples to 10 people. And some people did like 50 people.
- [37:07]
B
Yeah.
- [37:07]
A
So, you know, I developed it for a year.
- [37:10]
B
That's actually incredibly smart.
- [37:12]
A
So I started. That's why social media was the best thing ever. Because I was looking at what was going on and the news can only say so much. But like social media is real people in real time.
- [37:25]
B
Yeah.
- [37:25]
A
In a lot of senses. So I'm like watching all of this and that's what just clicked to me, honestly. So it took about a year and then I launched through in 2021 a business of, you know, bridal, A bridal collection. And then now it's evolved into evening.
- [37:44]
B
Yeah.
- [37:44]
A
But that's a little bit of how that business started.
- [37:47]
B
Now I have the big question because I learned this firsthand a couple months ago.
- [37:51]
A
Yeah.
- [37:52]
B
So I walk into your atelier, I'm like, I want a dress now. What the fuck happens? What do we do? How long does it take to make it? How do you figure out what we're doing? Walk everybody listening through, step by step.
- [38:08]
A
All right, so the storyline is you, you, not you. Email.
- [38:14]
B
Yeah, I email email.
- [38:16]
A
Or you're DMing some people like calling on that phone number on the website, which you hate, which you know, I'm always like, you never know if it's.
- [38:24]
B
That's cause you're young.
- [38:25]
A
You never know if it's spam or something anymore. Unless it's designated. So that for business owners that have this type of business, you must have like a designated phone and a phone number, not something that's redirecting those numbers to your phone because you're not going to know.
- [38:41]
B
Yeah, okay.
- [38:43]
A
But anyways, you get the appointment sometimes. I mean, all our brides now and all our clients, we're getting like October, November of 2025 right now.
- [38:55]
B
Oh, so that's a year out.
- [38:56]
A
Yeah. But even with you too, I think it Was, like, about a year out. But I remember at one point in the beginning, people would be doing six months out, eight months out. Now it's 12 months out.
- [39:07]
B
Yeah.
- [39:08]
A
So that you come in, you look through the collection. We always make sure to ask. We have, like, my team has a questionnaire form, like, where do you live? Where's the wedding venue or event venue, what's the date? You know, we have to know, like, those details so we can sort of.
- [39:25]
B
Figure out, like, the weather and how weather.
- [39:27]
A
Exactly. If there's a budget applicable to this. Are you looking for, like, veil with the gown or, like, you know what? We just like to know as much detail so we can be prepared and make people feel like they're comfortable and we want to learn more because we need to know more about them. So they come in. I usually like sitting down with whoever comes in and with my team and just get to know everybody. And I spend a good 20, 25 minutes doing that. Whereas, you know, I would say it's a little bit different. When you go to some of the designers that have been here since already, like, the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, you're not going to. Exactly. To the designer. A lot of moments, you're going to one of their reps. Yeah. And it's like, hi, Like.
- [40:18]
B
Or even, like, going to, like, a bridal studio or something. When you go to, like, Kleinfeld and try on a zillion dresses.
- [40:24]
A
Yeah. And it's like, okay. Like, they're gonna write down some information and be like, let me take you through the room of a thousand designers and dresses, and you're just picking. Whereas I want to. You know, it's about how you're making people feel really special and genuinely making them feel special. Like, you don't want to make them feel like, oh, they just want to get a sale.
- [40:46]
B
Yeah.
- [40:46]
A
For me, connecting with people is some of the most powerful things, especially to do in New York, because it leads to amazing, beautiful friendships that last so many years. But, you know, when girls come in and we talk for 20, 25, 30 minutes, then I'm like, okay, so I get a better idea of sort of who you are and what you're comfortable with, what you're maybe not comfortable with. So why don't we look through all the collections and let's see. And if you have anything from Instagram or the website that you saw, let us know. And many times, everyone that comes and goes, I have this saved and this saved and this saved. I think you even also were like, I have these saved. I want to show you. Which is really helpful because then we're like, okay, you like this silhouette. You like this sort of structure. You like these little details. You like this type of fabric. So we go in, we look through, and everything. Great. Try on you could. Some girls try on 2? Some girls try on 12.
- [41:45]
B
Okay.
- [41:46]
A
Appointments last anywhere from, you know, an hour to two hours.
- [41:51]
B
Yeah.
- [41:52]
A
From then, if they place order. They don't place to order, really.
- [41:56]
B
It's.
- [41:57]
A
We have a timeline of 8 to 12 months. We do 8 to 12 months.
- [42:02]
B
Say I place an order, then what happens?
- [42:06]
A
Basically, you're getting the deposit. We ask for a deposit. Once you get that deposit is how we secure your spot. We secure your spot in our timeline, in our schedule. And because it's. You have to think about it in a way where it's not just the schedule of when all the dresses are being made for any other clients.
- [42:27]
B
Yeah.
- [42:27]
A
It's how many fashion shows are you having a year? How many trunk shows are you traveling for a year? Is it two? Is it 30? Are you doing two shows a year or doing six shows a year? And along that, it's like, you know, it takes four to six months sometimes to build one collection. So while the designers are building that collection, unless you're a team that has 100 people or 2, 3, 400 people, and you're working with a hotter, younger, whatever designer, then that's why it's important to know. Okay, it takes eight to 12 months. And so you put the deposit in that way. They're securing you in their timeline. Okay, we need at least four fittings, at least four visits. We need to have at least two calls in between some of those visits so we can just keep each other updated. You have remeasurements, whether it's two, whether it's four, whether it's six. And it's just important that, you know, we're able to schedule people in, even if it's for 20 minutes.
- [43:28]
B
But then what happens? Like, we have to pick a fabric, Right? We pick fabric, and then once we have the fabrics picked, you send it. Do you sew everything yourself?
- [43:36]
A
I think when you're going the route of doing something more custom, it's really choosing the fabric and getting into the really nitty gritty of, okay, let's choose the fabric. What shape? Like, bra cup you're super comfortable with. What neckline are we doing? What type of crinoline and petticoat are we doing? How long do we want the train? How, like, what details do we want to Add do we want to make?
- [43:58]
B
This part was incredibly overwhelming for me, guys. Yeah. Because you would say these words, and I wouldn't know what any of them meant.
- [44:05]
A
I'd be like, well, do you want it like a hard tulle as an overlay, or do you want a bobbinet?
- [44:10]
B
And I'm like, I can't spell tulle.
- [44:13]
A
Is tulle the thing that looks like a cloud on top? I'm like, yeah, that's tulle. But that's different from a crinoline, because a crinoline is a hard skin.
- [44:22]
B
I haven't even heard that word before.
- [44:24]
A
Yes. So crinoline would be what's structuring the skirt and sort of gives it that shape. But, you know, when you're going a custom route, there's a lot more details, which is why It'd be like 12 months. You need it.
- [44:36]
B
Yeah.
- [44:37]
A
We still say eight to 12 months for styles existing in the collection with minimal to no changes.
- [44:46]
B
Yeah.
- [44:46]
A
So what, you come in and you see a gown and you go, okay, I love this one. That's what I'm ordering. We're doing it exactly like that. Then, you know, it's.
- [44:56]
B
It's faster.
- [44:56]
A
Yeah, it's faster. But we still say eight to 12 months, whatever it is. And then they put it in, and then we do at least minimum of two fittings. I like to do at least four. But I know my team is like, we need to cut it down and get it to two. But I want to make sure that everything looks and feels perfect, because if I see one little seam off and my studio is like, it's fine. Like, I'm like, no, no, no. Like, I am going to have to see those photos.
- [45:26]
B
Yeah.
- [45:27]
A
And I. You know, you take pride in your work. Yeah. I'm like, you know, and it's literally my name.
- [45:31]
B
Yeah. So, which, by the way, you guys, the fun little secret is that if you get a dress from Andrew Kwan, he sews your name into the dress. I don't know if this is actually the case with everybody, but it was for me in my dress. It said for Vivienne, it's really sweet.
- [45:50]
A
So that's some cases.
- [45:52]
B
Oh, okay. So that was just the friends and family. Sorry, I shouldn't have said that out loud. But it was beautiful. And it was, like, in, like youe rich BFF green. And, like, it did make me feel so special. And, I mean, I just. I look back on my camera roll, and we have photos of us pretending to dance in this dress for me to test out what dancing would be like in it. And, like, there's one where you're, like, pinning something on my chest, and I'm, like, pretending to, like, lick your forehead. And, like, I was just being a menace. But, like, I have so many really positive memories, and this was, like, a very special dress for me. And I want to take a second to talk about very special dresses for very special people. You've dressed folks from Lucy Liu to Regina Hall. And, you know, a big part of being in the fashion space is working with pr.
- [46:39]
A
Right.
- [46:40]
B
And I'm curious, when stylists reach out to designers to help make these dresses for these red carpet moments or for big celeb talent, like, how does that work? And, like, do you get paid for that?
- [46:56]
A
Well, I'm very honored to be dressing women that I loved watching growing up. But, you know, I think PR is always tricky.
- [47:10]
B
Yeah.
- [47:10]
A
Because it's not just, let's see. And you know this very well. The talent. The talent has their publicist.
- [47:17]
B
Yeah.
- [47:19]
A
The stylist also has their own agency. Absolutely. Separate from the talent. The talent meaning, you know, the celebrity or whatever, whoever it is. So there are moments where, you know, brands are paying. Sometimes just the stylist.
- [47:39]
B
Oh, Brands will actually pay the stylist to have the talent wear the dress, not the other way around and the.
- [47:46]
A
Other way around as well.
- [47:47]
B
Oh, okay.
- [47:48]
A
So it works both ways. But now it's a whole conversation of, okay, well, if the brand is paying the stylist, then shouldn't the talent also get some of what they're getting?
- [48:00]
B
They're getting paid. Yeah.
- [48:03]
A
And so I think it's a conversation that's just beginning and that's just really starting to be explored more and more.
- [48:12]
B
Because the talent's probably paying the stylist, then the brand might pay the stylist. But.
- [48:19]
A
But, you know, and sometimes it's that. Sometimes that the stylists are not paid as much as people think.
- [48:24]
B
Yeah.
- [48:27]
A
And unless, you know, it's like the.
- [48:29]
B
Top, top, top, top, not everybody's stylist is Law Roach.
- [48:34]
A
So, you know, I think it's a. It's this very interesting conversation with. When I'm listening to all of this, with working with stylists and talent and celebrities, whatnot.
- [48:45]
B
But especially because stylists are becoming celebrities now.
- [48:48]
A
Right, Exactly.
- [48:49]
B
Like, I know who Law Roaches. And, like, I don't work in fashion.
- [48:52]
A
Right. And so I think it's so interesting how, like, the careers that have blossomed out of all these industries, but I think with pr, because we were the questions was about sort of my thoughts on pr. And I do love publicists and they do help a lot and they have crazy jobs with crazy hours and crazy needs. Um, but they are also some of the most stressful people that I have read emails from.
- [49:26]
B
Yeah.
- [49:26]
A
And unsurprising. Yeah. And like my. My heart has like sank at times that I've read texts or emails from PR people. Because they can. Some people. Some PR people are so nice and some PR people could be really, really not nice at all.
- [49:43]
B
Yeah.
- [49:44]
A
When they are not happy about something a little dramatic sometimes. But you know, it's. This industry isn't easy. Like our industries are not easy. Especially when you're working with people with very big personalities or saying things that they are not afraid to say. But I think money is a huge driver of it. Whether it's how long, how much longer is a retainer left on for? Oh, is it three weeks? Are you extending or are you not extending? If you're not extending and we have three weeks left. Well, it takes about three weeks for us to sort of. Of exit out. Yeah. On board. So. Yeah. So it's a. I think money drives so much of the industries that we're in.
- [50:27]
B
Yeah.
- [50:28]
A
And how people are feeling at the end of the day and how they're gonna act when they're sort of exiting out or whatever. What. Whatever's going on. And I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but I don't. You know, it's sort of sad.
- [50:41]
B
It feels like those who have the pockets to pay to play are gonna get more play.
- [50:46]
A
Yeah.
- [50:47]
B
Just cause they can afford to.
- [50:48]
A
Right.
- [50:48]
B
And you talk about, you know, people who are nice, people who aren't nice. I have to ask, and I ask all of my guests, what do you feel like the biggest money mistake you've made, whether it be in your life or building this business has been I.
- [51:03]
A
Can only choose one or like a couple.
- [51:05]
B
You have so many. You're like, I want to share them all. Tell me.
- [51:08]
A
Okay, so I think one would definitely be wasting time. Wasting time. Because everybody's time is super valuable, especially your own. When you own your own business and you have other people weighing in on their time and their money that they've invested in you, you have to be considerate of that. So when you're lying down in bed because you're sad about something that didn't go right, and you stay in bed all of Monday, well, you just wasted a whole day that you could have done something and those are still moments that I look back where I'm like.
- [51:36]
B
Oh my God, time is money, baby.
- [51:38]
A
Time is money. Exactly. I think other mistakes that I have made before were when I was really a team of one for a very long time and then I had someone helping out a little bit and then turned a little bit more full time that didn't work for that much, which I'm so thankful for. And we had the best friendship that blossomed from that. But there was someone that I hired at one point and I think having them say they want to be on a retainer, I said, okay. And I go, I trust you so much that I'm going to put you on 12 months. And I think what. I forgot what they even offered, but it wasn't 12 months. It was lower than that. And I go, let's just do it for 12 months. It's going to be amazing. And it wasn't like $500, like, you know, how much retainers with, you know, people like sales directors or PR directors or whatever it is. It's like, Anyway, it's like three to 7,000amonth.
- [52:33]
B
Yeah.
- [52:34]
A
And you have to. I had to be more on top of it, but I wasn't. And when they said that they would commit four days a week to me, where was four days a week worth of work? There wasn't. And you can't let people tell you that are working for you. You can call it with you or for you, whatever. But you know when I would say, when you're working for me, you know, and I was corrected by that person to say, I wouldn't say I work for you. I work with you. We work with each other. And I go, honey, I pay you.
- [53:08]
B
Yeah.
- [53:09]
A
So while I'm paying you, I'm not saying it in a demeaning manner. I'm saying I'm paying you when I want the time out of it and the work out of it.
- [53:17]
B
Yeah.
- [53:18]
A
So I don't want to.
- [53:19]
B
It feels like the bare minimum.
- [53:20]
A
Exactly. So I'm like, I'm not. Don't tell me that it's. Oh, we're just waiting to hear back on an email. Oh, we're waiting to hear back.
- [53:29]
B
What are you doing while you're waiting?
- [53:30]
A
Exactly. So I'm like, what are you doing when you're waiting? Let me see the other list of the reach outs that we're doing and your contacts. And then they go, well, what do you want me to do if I'm waiting? I go, literally your draw. You're the person in the industry that's had 40 years plus experience, don't ask me what I think you should do. That's why I hired you. That was a mistake. And that was a mistake for me. Getting too excited and putting way too much in it to say, oh, my God, no, no, no, don't do six months, let's do 12.
- [53:59]
B
Yeah.
- [54:01]
A
So that was a mistake.
- [54:02]
B
I feel like you got excited because the first employee was so good. You thought everyone was going to be so good.
- [54:06]
A
Right.
- [54:07]
B
And that's not always the case.
- [54:08]
A
But, you know, I think what that these types of people do very well is they show much more interest in the beginning. And they're an amazing talker. They can sell anything at that point because they know that they're going to be able to, if they are able to talk their way through it, is sort of sell what they're saying.
- [54:30]
B
Yeah.
- [54:30]
A
And then it's going to tie you to that contract. So if you want to go and take crazy speech courses and trick people. Just kidding. Wasn't tricking. But, yeah, seriously, I think that was a huge lesson that I still think about right now because that was a big, like, financial downfall for me at a certain point where I thought I. God, eight, nine months went by and I spent that much and I had to let that person go because, you know, it was insane. And they didn't do it. Yeah.
- [55:01]
B
Even though you had those money mistakes, you've clearly continued to thrive. I want to know what's next for Andrew Kwan.
- [55:12]
A
What's next for Andrew Kwan? I mean, I love fragrances.
- [55:18]
B
Interesting. Yeah. Really? Well, I know you do, because every time I come over to your apartment, you've got, like, five empty bottles.
- [55:25]
A
Exactly. So, you know, I love, love, love fragrances. Yeah. I would say fragrances is something that I love. I love hotels. I love, like, luxury. I love a lot of just luxury items.
- [55:41]
B
Look at this kid from Colorado talking about how much he loves luxury.
- [55:45]
A
Seriously. But, you know, I love cars. I love hotels.
- [55:50]
B
Wait, but are these all things you're going to try and get into, you.
- [55:53]
A
Know, whether it's like a collaboration or.
- [55:55]
B
Partnership of some sort? Oh, interesting.
- [55:57]
A
I think, really, I always am, like, the sky's limit. It's not like, going to be like, oh, an Andrew Kwan car. But, like, if it could be a partnership with the interior, like something designed, like the leather.
- [56:09]
B
Yeah.
- [56:09]
A
I mean, it'd be amazing. I mean, how exciting would that be? And making it more cool and more relatable to, like, our generation.
- [56:16]
B
Yeah.
- [56:18]
A
But fragrance is something that I do love. I know people always comment about my freaking skin and I didn't know that.
- [56:26]
B
Skin's clean. It's good.
- [56:28]
A
But I do love cosmetics and skincare. So these are all.
- [56:33]
B
Those are little things that you might be exploring. I love that. Okay, well, thank you so much for being here. Tell everyone where they can find you.
- [56:42]
A
In Vivian's living room. True potato chips. Just kidding. You can find me on Instagram, Andrew KwanOfficial or Andrew Kwan.com thank you so.
- [56:56]
B
Much for coming today.
- [56:57]
A
Thanks for having me.
- [56:59]
B
Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of Net Worth and Chill, part of the Vox Media Podcast network. If you liked the episode, make sure to leave a rating and review and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Got a burning financial question that you want covered in a future episode? Write to us via podcast at yourrichbff.
- [57:17]
A
Com.
- [57:17]
B
Follow Networth and Chillpod on Instagram to stay up to date on all podcast related news. And you can follow me at YourRichBFF for even more financial know how. See you next week. Bye.