The Truth About Networking (And What Most People Get Wrong)

Summary

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Networth and Chill with Your Rich BFF

Episode: The Truth About Networking (And What Most People Get Wrong)
Host: Vivian Tu
Guest: Danielle Robay
Date: May 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this insightful episode, Vivian Tu (“Your Rich BFF”) sits down with acclaimed journalist and podcast host Danielle Robay, whom Forbes dubbed the “queen of questions.” Together, they unravel the myths and realities of networking, reframing it as genuine relationship-building rather than transactional exchanges. Danielle shares hard-earned wisdom from her career, including formative encounters (like learning from legendary interviewer Larry King), actionable tips for conversing with anyone, and lessons on how real success is rooted in curiosity, vulnerability, and giving more than you take.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of Curiosity & Career Pivot Stories

• Danielle shares her Midwest-to-LA move and her early career disillusionment with celebrity news ("I was miserable. I would cry in the bathroom at work. I broke out into hives." — Danielle, 00:00).
• Her “oh shit job”: Getting the dream opportunity young—only to walk away after four months, unemployed and anxious ("At that time I was unemployed. I was financially very anxious. I just knew I couldn't stay at that office in Burbank that had no windows, that I was miserable at." — Danielle, 00:25, 07:51).
• Danielle’s realization that curiosity could be a career after a life-changing series of breakfasts with Larry King (see Quotes & Storytelling section).

2. Curiosity as a Superpower

• Both agree that curiosity can create a richer, more adventurous life (“Charmed are the curious, for they will have adventure.” — Danielle, 04:00).
• Danielle notes society doesn’t champion curiosity, often punishing it in kids or workers who challenge norms (03:16).

3. How to Ask Great Questions (Larry King’s Wisdom)

• Personalize every question: Avoid generic, impersonal prompts (“There’s always a better way to ask the question." — Danielle, 11:09).
  • Instead of “What’s your stance on X?”, ask, “If your daughter was… what would you do?” for a more personal, revealing answer (11:09).
• Emotional context elicits richer, more honest responses: "It's not about the issue, it's about them." — Danielle, 12:21.

4. Networking is Relationship Building, Not Transactions

• Danielle rejects the term “networking” for “relationship building.” It's about consistency, trust, and playing the long game (24:40).
  • "You show up consistently as the same person over time, you build trust and then in turn you build reputation." — Danielle, 24:40.
• Bad networking = being immediately transactional. Good networking = honest, organic conversation, often even personal rather than professional (24:22–25:13).

5. Conversation Starters & Practical Tips

• Danielle’s favorite question at events: “What’s the story behind your name?”—low pressure, always unique, creates instant connection (24:43–25:28).
• The power of the “follow up” question: "If you don’t know what to say, you can always say, ‘Can you say more about that?’ You look so interested." (26:23)
• People love to talk about themselves—doing so triggers a dopamine hit comparable to sex or sugar (26:56).

6. Transitioning & Handling Dead-End Conversations

• How to handle a “brick wall” conversation: don’t take it personally, address the elephant in the room, or just move on if they’re not engaged (27:32–29:01).
• Probe gently by shifting topics or inserting your own anecdotes to find shared interests.

7. Mistakes & Fatal Flaws in Networking

• Cardinal sin: Talking about yourself for more than 40 seconds. Visualize Green/Yellow/Red Lights—after 40 seconds, you’ve probably lost them (32:44–33:12).
• Don't mistake being interesting for being interested: true charisma is about curiosity, not self-promotion (27:26, 33:25).

8. Depositing into the “Relationship Bank”

• Give more than you take; consistency over time is key (35:27–37:48).
• Cited example: President George H.W. Bush checked in with world leaders regularly when he needed nothing, so his asks later were authentic (36:17).

9. Networking in the Digital Era & Authenticity

• Discussing the TikTok “street interviewer” phenomenon—fun, but lacks trust-building for truly deep answers (39:10–40:22).
• True rapport requires time and context ("You have to earn somebody’s trust to get to the really good answer.” — Danielle, 39:29).

10. Ending Conversations Gracefully

• Pro-tip from hospitality: Give a warm compliment and an explicit reason to leave the interaction—“It was so wonderful talking to you, I have to go say hello to someone” (40:40–41:38).

11. Talking about Money with Friends & Partners

• Use pop culture, hypothetical, or third-party scenarios to start conversations about money, not raw numbers (“You don’t want to go for the jugular right away.” — Danielle, 42:14–43:05).
• Are “white lies” OK? Not recommended—eventual authenticity wins (43:22–45:16).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Danielle on Seeing Curiosity as a Career (Larry King Story)

• “Larry asked me hundreds of questions… He was interested in the minutiae of life as much as he was interested in the big questions… I looked at somebody who made money from their curiosity… you can't be what you can't see. It was the first time I saw someone doing what I wanted to do.” (09:10–10:08)

On Relationship Roots

• “If you don't build roots when you're young, you'll tip over when you're older. You're like a tree.” — Danielle (14:20)
• “In your personal life, be in your multitudes; professionally, be great at one thing, get to know your industry, build your network up.” (14:42–15:23)

On Losses and Wins

• “If you see me winning, you don’t see me losing, but I am losing just as much as I am winning.” — Danielle, quoting Dani Garcia (13:58–14:20)

On Consistency in Relationships (Relationship Bank Account)

• “You need to deposit more than you withdraw… relationship building is about consistency over time.” (35:33–35:40)
• “You can't just call when you need something. It has to be a friendship built over time.” — Vivian (37:22)

On Charisma & Questions

• “Oftentimes we go into networking events and we think we have to be so interesting and have great stories and be charismatic. You actually don't need any of that. You need to be interested. And that is what true charisma is about.” — Danielle (26:56–27:26)
• “Questions expand your life and your dreams, and everybody can tap into it.” — Danielle (34:54)

On Ending a Conversation (Practical Script)

• “It was so wonderful talking to you, I'd love to continue, but I have to go say hello to somebody over there. I'll see you soon.” — Danielle (41:22)

On Overestimating Talent and Underestimating Consistency

• “I underestimated how much time everything would take... I wish I could go back and tell that worried girl to just get better every day, keep putting your reps in and something good, it will amount to something… I overestimated how much talent would matter.” — Danielle (48:58–51:02)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–01:44 — Danielle’s rough early career chapter: LA job, quitting, and financial anxiety.
• 03:16–04:56 — Society’s ambivalent relationship to curiosity; adventuring into the unknown.
• 08:55–10:55 — Breakfasts with Larry King: observing a life built on curiosity.
• 11:09–12:33 — Practical techniques for better questioning (Larry King’s main lesson).
• 13:58–14:20 — Advice from Dani Garcia: public wins vs. private losses.
• 14:20–15:46 — What “building roots” really means for your career.
• 24:40–25:28 — Why networking is just relationship-building, exemplified with Danielle’s favorite low-pressure question.
• 26:55–27:26 — Science of why people love talking about themselves (triggering dopamine).
• 32:44–33:12 — Fatal networking flaw: talking about yourself too long.
• 35:27–36:17 — Relationship bank account: Bush Sr.’s leader-checking practice.
• 39:10–40:22 — Danielle’s take on street interviews and why trust-building matters.
• 40:40–41:38 — Cleanly exiting conversations (the hospitality industry trick).
• 43:04–43:39 — Using pop culture scenarios to ease into money talks with friends/partners.
• 48:58–51:02 — Career reflections: patience, reps, overestimating talent.

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Rapid Fire: Personal Finance Reflections

• Best money advice: “Money doubles every 7 to 9 years. Money looks better in your bank account than on your feet.” — Danielle (45:37)
• Financial regrets: “Every year when I clean out my closet, I think to myself, why did I spend all this money on clothes?” (45:51)
• One thing she skips: “All the Amazon packages… I don’t impulse buy.” (47:05)
• 21-year-old self advice: “Don’t buy the shoes.” (47:26)

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Final Thoughts, Reflections & Inspirations

• Mantra Danielle lives by: “Service is the rent you pay for a room on this Earth.” (47:45)

• Biggest career lesson: "Questions expand your life and your dreams, and everybody can tap into it." (34:54)

• Parting exercise:
  Danielle asks listeners to reflect on their 85th birthday: What would you most regret not doing? Pursue that thing, whatever your age (54:39).

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Practical Takeaways

• Networking is slow-cooked, not microwaved: Show up, give more than you take, and build trust over time.
• Be interested, not interesting: Ask about others, follow up, and personalize.
• **Conversation skills are learned—practice proactively with family, friends, and strangers alike.
• **Start money or tough topics via pop culture or hypotheticals.
• **End conversations gracefully with warmth and clarity.
• **True success is equal parts curiosity, resilience, consistency, and generosity, not just raw talent or credentials.

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For more, follow Danielle Robay at @danielerobay and Vivian Tu at @yourrichbff.
Try her game “Question Everything” to practice your own curiosity superpower.

Transcript

[Danielle Robay]

I moved from the Midwest and I thought la, like the land of celebrity and palm trees. I got a big job at a young age. I was like the youngest person that this network hired, and it was supposed to be like a big deal. And I ended up quitting after four months. I was miserable. I would cry in the bathroom at work. I broke out into hives. It was at that time I was unemployed. I was financially very anxious. I knew I couldn't stay at that office in Burbank that had no windows, that I was miserable at.

[Vivian Tu]

The jail cell.

[Danielle Robay]

The jail cell.

[Vivian Tu]

What's up, rich friends? And welcome back to another episode of Net Worth and Chill. I'm your host, Vivian Tu, AKA your rich BFF and your favorite Wall street girly. So many of you know that I'm always looking for advice from my incredible guests. And even though it's my job to teach people about personal finance and building wealth, it's. It doesn't mean that I always have all the answers all the time. Everyone goes through periods of feeling stuck, whether it's in your career, love, life, energy levels, or mental health. And while no one person has bulletproof advice for everything in life, I think there's a skill in knowing how to network, how to build relationships, and also knowing how to ask really good questions. And that's something Danielle Roubaix, the journalist Forbes called the queen of Questions, has done all throughout her career. She not only hosts Reese Witherspoon's book club podcast, but also runs her own show called Question Everything, where she sat down with everyone from Constance Wu to Scooter Braun to ask them the hard hitting questions about career, life, growth and success. Today, she's joining us on Net Worth and Chill. Danielle, thank you so much for being here.

[Danielle Robay]

Vivian. I'm so excited to be here. It's not every day that you get to be on a podcast that you listen to, so I'm very excited.

[Vivian Tu]

Really? Yes. Oh, my God, I love that.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, I love learning from you.

[Vivian Tu]

You. And we are so lucky because we actually got to see each other about a week and a half ago.

[Danielle Robay]

Yes.

[Vivian Tu]

So it hasn't been too long, but you're a close friend of mine. But I will say I don't think I know your backstory. Like, talk to me about the early years of your childhood. Have you always just been a really chatty, curious kid or, you know, how did that come about? Support for Net Worth and Chill comes from Adobe. Planning your finances means taking a realistic picture of your life as it is now and where you want to be. But you also gotta plan for the unexpected because life happens and you need to be able to edit, adapt, and collaborate with others to reach your goals. Adobe gets that, which is why they made a tool that's just as flexible. PDF spaces. In Acrobat, your PDF files are no longer static. Instead, they're living documents that flex with you and your project's needs. Learn [e-mail] do that with Acrobat.

[Danielle Robay]

It's so funny you say that. I actually don't even consider myself chatty now. I was not a chatty kid.

[Vivian Tu]

Really.

[Danielle Robay]

Totally. I'm an observer.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay.

[Danielle Robay]

And I think it's why I became a journalist. I love sitting back and watching people, watching life take place, and then I'll jump in. But I definitely watch first. And I think that, you know, I did have questions as a kid. Every kid. I mean, preschoolers ask 300 questions a day.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, my God.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay. So, like, all kids have a ton of questions. And I think that a lot of times society kind of beats the curiosity out of you. If you're lucky, it won't. But in school, I think sometimes it looks like entitlement or like you're questioning rules if you're asking questions. I think at work, if you're like, why are we doing it this way? Or you have another idea that's sort of frowned upon. And so I don't know that curiosity is really championed in our culture, but I do think that I've always been a curious person, and that's definitely just. Just like, compounded with age.

[Vivian Tu]

Do you have a memory from your childhood where your curiosity may have gotten you in little bit of hot water?

[Danielle Robay]

For sure. My curiosity got me in so much trouble in college especially, I think as a kid. I mean, it probably got me in trouble and I don't remember. But in college, like, I have this quote, I love that charmed are the curious, for they will have adventure. And I really believe that if you are a curious person, you are in for an adventurous life, a more full, more fun life. Brian Grazer, actually, he's a great entertainment producer. He's one of the most successful producers in Hollywood. He wrote a book on how curiosity gives you a bigger life. So I totally believe that. But in college, like, I. I wanted to date every guy I wanted to. Like, I was like, oh, what's this culture about? What is this person about? I definitely got myself into situations with friends when I was traveling abroad that, like, maybe I shouldn't have been in certain areas on those certain streets.

[Vivian Tu]

Little Dicey.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, a little dicey, but I wouldn't take any of it back. Yeah. I actually think a lot of times what makes you the best makes you the worst. Particularly, like, you've been married for some time. Do you remember the one quality about your husband that just, like, totally charmed you at the beginning?

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, I do. And it's not what you're gonna think.

[Danielle Robay]

What was it?

[Vivian Tu]

It's the fact that he pushed back on me.

[Danielle Robay]

Whoa.

[Vivian Tu]

So, like, I feel like when we were dating, actually, funny enough, before my husband, I had gone on, like, a couple dates. I had been seeing this guy for a couple months, and he was perfect on paper. Had a great job, incredibly kind, like, good family, like, similar hobbies to mine. Like, everything was perfect on paper.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay.

[Vivian Tu]

But he just, like, agreed with everything I said. Like, he didn't have his own opinions or, like, strong opinions about anything. And I just, like. I don't know, there was something off. Like, I could just tell that it wasn't going to work.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

But when I first started dating my now husband, I had told him something, and he literally looked me in the eye and he was like, did you just make that stat up? And I'm like, did I maybe.

[Danielle Robay]

Like, that's funny.

[Vivian Tu]

And so, like, I like that he challenged me. Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

And do you still like that in him, or is that the crux of all your fights now?

[Vivian Tu]

No, I still like that.

[Danielle Robay]

Oh. See, I think that's amazing. Most people that I talk to in relationships, when they meet somebody, they're like, oh, my God, I love that he's so spontaneous. And then five years down the road, they're like, he can't keep a plan together. He's so spontaneous. It's so annoying. And so, like, truly, I think my curiosity makes me the best and the worst. Okay.

[Vivian Tu]

I actually love that. And I love that you've done that introspection. I am curious. When did you feel like your curiosity could become a career, like, to get paid to do it?

[Danielle Robay]

I actually have a very specific moment that I remember. My curiosity. I could get paid for my curiosity. So I started in la, like, at Red Carpets Entertainment Reporting. And I had stars in my eyes. I moved from the Midwest, and I thought la, like the land of celebrity and palm trees. And I got there, and it was the land of palm trees. I loved it. But I actually realized that working in celebrity news was not at all what I thought it was. It was not for me. I got a big job at a young age. I was, like, the youngest person that this Network hired, and it was supposed to be like, a big deal. And I ended up quitting after four months. I was miserable. I would cry in the bathroom at work. I broke out into hives. I think a lot of people. I call it the oh, shit job. Like, a lot of people have the job they thought was gonna be something else.

[Vivian Tu]

It was perfect.

[Danielle Robay]

Perfect. And it was. At that time, I was unemployed. I was financially very anxious. I didn't have a backup plan. And I was like, how am I gonna pay my rent? I just. I knew I couldn't stay at that office in Burbank that had no windows. That I was miserable at.

[Vivian Tu]

The jail cell.

[Danielle Robay]

The jail cell. So I quit. And I decided I was gonna take myself to grad school. I started writing all of these questions. I think there was about, like, 800 or a thousand questions. If I met Oprah, what was I gonna ask her? If I met Michael B. Jordan, what would I ask him? Cause I think, particularly in my line of work it's very probable that I might meet that person and ask them questions, right? And I wanted to be ready. And a lot of times I think people are like, oh, I wanna meet Michael Jordan. But, like, you run into him and what are you gonna say?

[Vivian Tu]

You're, like, starstruck. You don't know what to say.

[Danielle Robay]

Exactly. So I had this list of a thousand questions and I started asking myself questions every single day. I realized I asked questions for a living. I'd never asked myself any. And it was in that time that I started that introspection that a friend of mine said, I have a surprise for you. I can tell how depressed you are. And I was like, okay. And he goes, meet me at Nate Niles, which is a deli in Beverly Hills. It's like a famous deli. Meet me there at 7am tomorrow morning. So I'm like, why am I going to this deli? And he goes, oh, by the way, wear hair and makeup. Like, do your hair and makeup.

[Vivian Tu]

Hair and makeup.

[Danielle Robay]

I'm like, okay. So I'm there at 6:58, I'm ready. And I walk in at 7am and I see Larry King sitting in those red seats. And it was like an LA miracle, right? Like, I'm such a student of journalism.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

I've watched the guy. He is the. He is the interviewer, right? I mean, it's Barbara Walters. There's probably five of them. Yeah, he's one of them. And I watch hundreds of hours of Larry King interviews with him in his suspenders. So I go sit at the table. And Larry asked me hundreds of questions. And he was, to this day, the most insatiably curious person I'd ever known. And he was interested in the minutiae of life as much as he was interested in the big questions. So, like, he talked about what he wished he could have asked Osama bin Laden. He didn't get to interview him. And he was asking me why kids were obsessed with their cell phones and what the Kardashians were doing for society. And by the end of breakfast, I looked at him, and I was like, larry, I didn't get to ask you one question. Can I come back? And he goes, well, don't you have a job, kid? And I was like, no, I don't. And he goes, well, then you are welcome here anytime. And for months, I would go have breakfast with Larry and his friends. I was the youngest person at the table. I think the second youngest was 65 years old. They were his childhood friends. What? And I would learn from Larry how to ask questions, how to interview. I'd ask him questions about his career. And he did teach me how to ask a proper question, which I can share some of the tips that he shared with me. But more than that, I looked across from him at the table. He was in his late 80s, working still. Cause he loved it. He was working for this Russian TV station. I don't know really what the show was, but he loved it. And I looked at somebody who made money from their curiosity. Like, all he did was ask people questions all day long. And it was the idea of, you can't be what you can't see. It was the first time that, up close, I saw someone doing what I wanted to do. And I thought, oh, this is possible. I just have to carve out my own lane. What does that look like in 2016? You know?

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, Wait, okay, now you have to tell us.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

What did Larry King tell you so that we can all ask better questions?

[Danielle Robay]

There's a lot of tips I can give. The. The. The main one he taught me is to always personalize the question, so there's always a better way to ask the question. And I actually. I listened to a podcast last night, one of the Broie podcasts, and I was thinking to myself, I wish I could give this man notes, because he's asking a lot of sort of, like, TikTok Instagram questions. The what questions? The questions, like, what's the number one reason relationships break up? Yeah, you're not going to get a very good answer from that. The better Question is asking your guest, take me back to the last time you had a heartbreak. What was the reason you two split? And why do you think that was the moment? Right. You personalize it. You're going to get a way better answer. Larry would use this example, and I'm sorry for anybody who this is sort of like a crazy topic, but this was his example. He would say, if you're interviewing a politician and you're asking them what their stance is on abortion, you don't say, what is your stance on abortion? You say, if your daughter was raped, would you drive her to the abortion clinic? You're going to get a way better answer.

[Vivian Tu]

Elicit, like, an emotional response before they even have a chance to get to

[Danielle Robay]

you and make it about them. Take me to your breakup. Would you drive your daughter? Yeah. It's not about the issue, it's about them.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. Wow, that's such incredible advice.

[Danielle Robay]

He was a master, clearly.

[Vivian Tu]

Obviously, we know that, but this is even such a great tidbit for everybody. Speaking of great advice, you host your podcast question everything, as well as Reese's Book Club. Talk to me about all of the guests that you may have spoken to over the years on both of those podcasts. What are the top three pieces of advice that you have gotten?

[Danielle Robay]

I love this so much. Okay, I'm gonna give you one broad stroke before I give you the three pieces that I've remembered. And the broad stroke is that I have interviewed some of the most successful people in the world. The top artists, top CEOs, top athletes. And the one thing that I think they all have in common is that they believed they could do it. And I know that sounds so simple, but like, 95% of executing anything you want is simply believing that you can. So that is a big thing that I've learned because even to this day, I have doubts all the time. And I think to myself, like, okay, like, I just have to switch my mindset. It's really. There's. There's nothing stopping me. It's me. Right? Okay. Pieces. Pieces of advice. The first came from Dani Garcia, who built the Rock's career. She was his ex wife, funny enough, but she was the mastermind behind his career, and to this day, they're business partners.

[Vivian Tu]

Dwayne the Rock Johnson, for those unfamiliar.

[Danielle Robay]

The most followed man on Instagram, I think.

[Vivian Tu]

Really?

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, that's cool.

[Danielle Robay]

One of them. So she knows what she's doing, and she said to me that if you see me winning, you don't see me losing, but I am Losing just as much as I am winning. And I thought that was really cool to hear because the losses are so private. We don't publicize them.

[Vivian Tu]

Of course not.

[Danielle Robay]

And so sometimes I get lost in my losses. I don't know if you feel that. Yeah, yeah. The second piece of advice is that if you don't build roots when you're young, you'll tip over when you're older. You're like a tree, and I love that one.

[Vivian Tu]

What does that mean, though? Like, what if, you know, putting down roots, like, does that mean, like, staying in one place? Does that mean, like, what does it mean?

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, I mean, I'd be curious to know what you think. I think I interpreted it like, you know, we live in this world of people being in their multitudes. That's such a buzzword. Yeah. And I believe that you get to be in your multitudes in your personal life, but in your professional life, I think it is so important to be really great at one thing, to really get good at something, to know the people in your industry. Part of it is relationships. Right. If you hop from industry to industry to industry all the time, the people that work in real estate are not the people that work in investment banking are not the people that work in fashion.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

And, like, part of it is building your network up. So I think, like, you really do have to build roots somewhere when you're young so that you don't tip over when you're older.

[Vivian Tu]

I actually love that. I thought it was more about, like, settling down early, but no, that's actually complete opposite. It's like, you want to have a foundation, something that you're really strong at, and then you can branch out. But if you try to branch out too early. Boop.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, I agree. And I think it doesn't mean that you can't switch your career. A lot of. I don't really believe in failure. I think things are pivots. But the. The Jack of all trades idea that I think is so pervasive on Instagram is so unhelpful in getting to where you want to go, in my opinion. And the third piece of advice,

[Vivian Tu]

Let

[Danielle Robay]

me think about that. Oh, Gabby Reese said to me, your life will find you. So as long as you are honest with yourself, what is meant for you, won't miss you. Like she said, your life will find you. And I deeply believe that. I can tell you, like, I feel anxious about not having a partner and not having kids yet. And I think about her words a lot, like, just keep putting one foot in front of the other and your life will find you.

[Vivian Tu]

What would you say to people who are in a similar position and they're feeling anxious? Maybe they're, you know, looking for a partner and they feel like they'll never find one. Or they want the dream job and it hasn't come for them yet. Like, what do we do?

[Danielle Robay]

What do we do? I can tell you what I'm doing.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, tell us. Tell us.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay. Well, I think the first thing is to acknowledge your desire. I love etymology. The root of the word desire means in the stars.

[Vivian Tu]

Really? Oh, that's so beautiful.

[Danielle Robay]

It is so beautiful. And I interpret it as if you have a desire, if you want something, it is already written in the stars. It is yours for the taking. You just can't reach it yet. And so be okay with your desire. Be okay with the fact that you want a partner or you want this certain career. And then I think you can get strategic and work backwards. Like, for me, I need to date. I'm not dating. I need to actually go on the dates. But I think, I don't know how

[Vivian Tu]

you could possibly be dating because I saw you in LA last week and now you're in New York. You're not in one place for more than 10 seconds.

[Danielle Robay]

That's part of it, yeah, for sure. I think career wise and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this. If you look at somebody's career that you want, I think you can read. You don't have to know them. You can listen to them, read their biographies, read their memoirs and try to work backwards and see, like, what was the thing that they did. For instance, I always admired Barbara Walters and she created the View. She created something called the 20 most fascinating people. She was always like, she had a thing. She wasn't just asking people questions. Right. And so it was part of the impetus for me starting my show, Question Everything. Because I was like, I need a thing, I need to create something. So I think you can work backwards. Did you do that with anybody?

[Vivian Tu]

I think it was hard because there weren't necessarily financial, like, people really that looked like me or had like a trajectory that I wanted. Certainly there were the Dave Ramsey's of the world, or the Jim Cramers or even the Susie Ormans. But I think the way their business was built and continued to grow no longer really worked in my era, like the digital age, you know, whether it be courses or radio shows or tv, like, those are all great. But I started on social. And so I think I have folks that are not in necessarily my industry that I look up to.

[Danielle Robay]

Ooh, like who, if you don't mind me asking?

[Vivian Tu]

Like, I think what Emma Greed has done with skims and also building her own brand is incredibly powerful. She's a friend of ours, which is great. But. But I also think that, like, when I think about people who have built really strong personal brands, I think there's power in that as well. Whether that be, you know, a good friend of mine is Teffy.

[Danielle Robay]

She's I love.

[Vivian Tu]

You know, I think she's just so interesting and like, I want to be able to help people in a similar way, but have it focus a little bit more on their money.

[Danielle Robay]

So can I drill into you?

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, so of course she would take my interview and make it her interview. Go ahead.

[Danielle Robay]

I'm so sorry. Okay, so when you say I think it's so, let's take Emma Greed and Teffy as an example. So Emma Greed, you said that you like her personal brand and what she's done with skims.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

That signals to me you might want to start a business outside of her.

[Vivian Tu]

Working on it. Okay, I'm working on it.

[Danielle Robay]

So that's cool. That's part of the blueprint. I love that. And then with Teffy, Teffy is just so herself. Right. She's like so authentic. That's to me, like her magic. Is that what you see or what about her career do you love?

[Vivian Tu]

I think it is that it's like the ability to be so herself and like, not afraid. And like, obviously, you know, I know her personally. Like, she is really great in front of a camera, but it almost, at certain points when she's answering questions, feels like she's not media trained.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

But that what. That's what makes it so much more compelling.

[Danielle Robay]

Agreed.

[Vivian Tu]

Because it doesn't feel like a can dance answer.

[Danielle Robay]

Do you. You strive for that?

[Vivian Tu]

I think so. I think with the type of content I make, like, there's a different level of like, you know.

[Danielle Robay]

Well, you have a. Like a responsibility. Yeah. To people.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. I think there's a level of reservation that I have to stay on versus, like, being able to just say whatever I want. Yeah. But I do appreciate how authentically she is herself.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah. Yeah. See, I think that's so cool. Like, if you. Whoever those people are in your mind, the more specific you can get, the better. Like, who inspired you to write your books?

[Vivian Tu]

I don't think there was an inspiration to write my books aside from my audience.

[Danielle Robay]

Really.

[Vivian Tu]

They were the ones who were like, you know, we want something That's a little bit longer. They want the full manual versus just 60 second clips.

[Danielle Robay]

You have such great feedback from them.

[Vivian Tu]

Such great. It's a feedback loop. It's a thousand percent a feedback loop. Speaking of feedback loops, over the course of your career, have you changed how you prep for major interviews or for big events like. Oh, yeah, I would assume, like when you were younger you had to have your a thousand questions. But now do you wing it or do you still do that much prep? Both.

[Danielle Robay]

So when I was younger, I would have my thousand questions and look at my notes a lot more. Right. Or I would try and really memorize things ahead of time, specifically on red carpets. And now I prep even more in depth. I have the same amount. I am a research queen. I research a person, especially when I have time. I know them better than they know themselves. Sometimes I know what makes them tick. I'm asking myself questions like the deep cuts. The deep cuts. I'm asking what are they insecure about? What stories do they tell and why? What? I think it's very important to ga. I think it's so important to gather what somebody is telling you about themselves by the stories they're telling. For instance, my dad tells me the same stories all of the time. And instead of getting annoyed with him, I'm like, what's he trying to tell me about himself right now? I get curious and then I always ask myself one major question. And I got this from Celeste Headley, who's an amazing journalist. And it is, what can this person teach me that nobody else can? And that really helps me funnel the interview. But then I wing it. Sometimes I only use like three of the questions I prepped. Cause I think part of a great interview is like actively listening.

[Vivian Tu]

And you're giving me all of these gems, all of these little nuggets of wisdom for someone who wants to be a better conversationalist. We know networking in your career is so important. You have to be likable. You have to, you know, have a good conversation with someone.

[Danielle Robay]

Yes.

[Vivian Tu]

During this relationship building process, like, what are a couple things that folks can do to stand out but also not be seen as like a weirdo who's like asking too probing of personal questions.

[Danielle Robay]

I love that you framed it that way because we've all felt that. Right. Like you don't want to be an eager beaver.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

And you don't want to insert yourself in the wrong way.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

And I think that's actually part of why I, I created the game question everything. Because I think to Gamify questions. It's really just about practice. That's a big thing. So first of all, I want to attach or like latch onto something. You said networking to me is actually relationship building. So I don't even use the term networking because it feels like, so transactional. And to me, networking is not transactional. Networking's relationship building is playing the long game. So you show up consistently as the same person over time, you build trust and then in turn you build reputation. And then the relationships come and truly opportunities will show up at your doorstep and without trying so hard. But it is important to think of it as the long game. So if you are at a networking event and you are immediately saying like, how can I help you? And here's how you can help me, people are like, yeah, I'm good.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

Like, it just, it feels off, right?

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, it does.

[Danielle Robay]

Bad vibes, bad vibes. But if you have just a fun conversation, it doesn't even have to be professional. It can be personal if it feels right. One of the questions I use all the time at like a networking type event is when someone introduces them themselves, I say, oh my God, what is the story behind your name? And one. Whoa, it's. It's a low lift question, right? You can remember it. Everyone has a great story. Like, it's so like, if I ask you, what's the story behind Vivian?

[Vivian Tu]

I was named by my grandfather after Vivian Lee from Gone with the Wind because it was one of the only films that was like an American film that was available in China. And so that's why there are so many Chinese Vivians.

[Danielle Robay]

See, first of all, I have chills. That's so beautiful. I feel closer to you hearing that because I know how close you are to your family. And so I know the name means something to you and yet you didn't disclose anything. That feels too much, too personal. Yeah, right. But all of a sudden here we are. Like, the room shifted a little when you shared that. I feel so connected to you. And then I could tell you about my name and it's so silly.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, you have to tell me about your name and also what story your dad keeps tell telling you. I want to know now.

[Danielle Robay]

He has some good ones. But the. My name is just. My mom named me after the prettiest girl in her high school, which is so silly. She doesn't know her. She never kept in touch with her, but she was like, I just always loved her name.

[Vivian Tu]

That's so funny.

[Danielle Robay]

And it's not deep, but now we know something about each other. And then you can. Then you can use the follow up. And the follow up is the golden rule of relationship building.

[Vivian Tu]

Wait, tell me the rule. What's the.

[Danielle Robay]

It's the follow up question. Which you did, right? I asked you and you said now you asked me?

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

Like I have to know your name. Yeah. And then you can ask a follow up. Like, well, tell me about your mom. Is she from la? Is she from Chicago? And if you don't know what to say, then you can just say. Can you say more about that? That's a great follow up. Say more. You look so curious. You look so interested. And here's why it works, okay? When people talk about themselves, it triggers the same part of their brain as sex, cocaine, and sugar.

[Vivian Tu]

Whoa.

[Danielle Robay]

You are literally giving somebody a dopamine hit. Exactly. It is a dopamine hit. I love that. You know, the science behind is a dopamine hit. People love talking about themselves. So oftentimes we go into networking events and we think we have to be so interesting and have great stories and be charismatic. You actually don't need any of that. You need to be interested. And that is what true charisma is about. So the follow up question shows that

[Vivian Tu]

you are interested, interested, not interesting.

[Danielle Robay]

Ding, ding, ding.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay, I'm gonna take a page out of your book. Okay, Danielle, take me back to a networking event that you were at.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay.

[Vivian Tu]

Where you were being your normal, charismatic, curious self.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

And the person you're talking to is just a brick wall. They're not giving you anything. How do you combat that?

[Danielle Robay]

First of all, I love this question. It hits so many of the things we talked about. It was a follow up. You personalized it. You just nailed all of this. Okay. When I was younger, I think I would have had my feelings hurt. I would have personalized it and thought, I'm not interesting enough or I'm not important enough for this person. And I always think questions are vulnerable because I actually look at them as an invitation. And it is an invitation to connect. And someone can turn your invitation down. And that's what. Why it feels scary to ask a question sometimes.

[Vivian Tu]

It's like asking someone out on a date.

[Danielle Robay]

Yes, it's exactly that. You're putting yourself out there. Like, think about yourself in an elevator. If you're the first one to say, like, hey, how's your day? Even that feels like, what if they

[Vivian Tu]

don't want to talk?

[Danielle Robay]

It feels weird, right?

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

So younger me would have been hurt. This version of me, I think I'd be Like, you seem so disinterested in what I have to say. Like, are you. Are you, like, what's going on? Am I. You know, like, I would kind of address the elephant in the room. You look shocked. Oh, my God.

[Vivian Tu]

I just can't believe you would say that.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, I think in therapy, I learned that you don't actually necessarily have to talk about the issue, but you have to address why you don't want to talk about it. And so if. If you feel emboldened, listen, if you're trying to impress somebody, maybe we don't say that. Don't do that.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

Move on. Like this person does. You don't. You don't owe them your time, your great questions, your insight. Like, you don't owe them anything. I would move on otherwise. I think sometimes it signals that you've not gotten to the heart of what they're interested in. And going back to the idea that everybody can teach you something, I would start to probe around a little bit. If you care enough, like, you can insert yourself a little bit. You can say, like, hey, I just saw the Dodger game last night. That was crazy. Are you into baseball at all? Mm.

[Vivian Tu]

Mm.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Couldn't tell you one damn thing.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, so I hit a wall with that, right? So I'm like, do you. But do you watch tv? Did you watch anything last night?

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, well, I watched the Pit.

[Danielle Robay]

What's the Pit?

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, my gosh, Danielle, you don't know

[Danielle Robay]

what the Pit is?

[Vivian Tu]

It's like the ER show.

[Danielle Robay]

Oh, I love that guy.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

That's so fun. Did you watch er?

[Vivian Tu]

No. Oh, no. This is like an actual show about, like. Like, as a dramatized, scripted show. But it, like, it's like following a day in the ER and they go through all of the different cases. It's like, very good. You should watch those, by the way.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, so, like, are you into medical shows or just this one?

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, no, I am.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay. We just. I faked that whole thing. I know what the Pit is, but we just had a whole conversation.

[Vivian Tu]

You know what I mean? She got me good, guys. That was really good.

[Danielle Robay]

But I think you just have to probe a little, and sometimes it's inserting your own experience a bit. Something that you've done. Like, I watched this last night, or I just read this, which I know people don't love to hear this, but I think a lot of the best conversationalists are readers because they bad news for me. Well, okay, but you are. You're plugged into the world.

[Vivian Tu]

Yes.

[Danielle Robay]

So it's one or it's. It's one or the other or both, ideally. Because if you are a person that's having a lot of conversations with different people, you're also picking up information. If you are listening to podcasts, you are picking up information. If you're reading, you're picking up information.

[Vivian Tu]

It's so funny. Because of the amount of content I create, I feel like I don't necessarily have time to be doing as much reading as I would like or listening to as many podcasts or like, frankly even like just consuming content that I like.

[Danielle Robay]

Me too.

[Vivian Tu]

But that's interesting. Yeah. You have to be like plugged in. Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

Because you have something to offer. Right. And. And not like information, but you have a base of things to talk about that are on your mind. You can ask people their opinions on things. Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Support for Net Worth and Chill comes from Adobe. Things change, life happens, timeline shift, and your financial strategy. It has to be able to keep up and fit the current moment. So if you need to be flexible and adaptable, then the documents you use to keep track of it all should be too. That's where PDF spaces from Adobe Acrobat comes in. With Acrobat, you can do so much more with a PDF file than you ever thought possible. PDF Spaces takes those documents and turns them into a living project you can edit, engage with, and collaborate with others on. You can even put all your files into one workspace and have a whole conversation with your AI assistant about it. Then you can ask questions to get deep insights about your project, all without leaving the PDF space. You can also invite people to your PDF space and let them add files, comments, notes, and more. You can brainstorm through sketches or even synthesize all the info in podcast form. That's right, Acrobat lets you generate an audio overview of your project in just one click. The world isn't static, and thanks to Acrobat, Neither are your PDFs. Learn more at Adobe.com do that with Acrobat so you've given me a lot of really good tips. Now I want to know what is the one networking thing that is like the big fatal flaw mistake do not do Please save our listeners.

[Danielle Robay]

Talking about yourself for more than 40 seconds is a cardinal sin. I want you to think about it as green light, yellow light, red light. So the first 20 seconds, green light, people are interested and plugged into what you have to say. The second 20 seconds, it's a yellow light. You're starting to lose them. Yeah. And the third 20 seconds, ding ding, ding, red light. They are tuned out. It's over. People talk about themselves for way too long.

[Vivian Tu]

Well, okay, how does this work? Because you're not supposed to talk about yourself for longer than 40 seconds. But you also said that the most important thing is being interested, not interesting. So I guess the premise is, like, you want them talking about themselves.

[Danielle Robay]

Yes.

[Vivian Tu]

Versus the other way around.

[Danielle Robay]

You want the dopamine hit in their brain to go off, not yours. You already know what you want out of this scenario, right? You got to get their dopamine going.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that is so smart. What would you say makes someone a good conversationalist? And, like, what separates maybe someone like yourself versus someone who has to force it?

[Danielle Robay]

Ooh. I really. I know this is a tough answer, but it's practice. I can tell you. Back when I was writing that list of a thousand questions, I was not as practiced asking them. And so some of them may have come out a little awkward or at the wrong time. I still sometimes ask questions at the wrong moments. Like, I'm okay with that because I think it's net positive. It is practice. And so when I was asking people questions and practicing, I felt a whole shift in my life. And it is when I went down this road of curiosity and wanting to tell other people to ask questions, because so much changed for me. I can tell you, with strangers, they were drawn to me, and it created some beautiful, unexpected connections. Even with my own parents, who I know so well, I was. They didn't know this. I was practicing asking them questions, and I felt like they wanted to be on the phone longer. And my friends, who I know really well, I started asking questions aside from how was your day? And sort of like, the basic things we ask? And they felt way more connected to me. And I realized that asking questions is an actual superpower. I'm 5:1. I'm never gonna be in the WNBA, no matter how much I want to. There are certain things in life that limit your dreams. Questions expand your life and your dreams, and everybody can tap into it. Yeah. And in terms of being a great conversationalist, it is practice.

[Vivian Tu]

If networking were a bank account, what deposits matter most? Ooh.

[Danielle Robay]

First of all, you need to deposit more than you withdraw.

[Vivian Tu]

Whoa. That's a good finance tip too.

[Danielle Robay]

Yes, it is.

[Vivian Tu]

I love that.

[Danielle Robay]

I actually think. Well, I kind of think of this whole thing as conversational capital. Like, if you need an image, think about feeding a meter at your car. You need to put a lot of quarters in. I really think that relationship building is about consistency over time. I'll give you a great story to illustrate this. So I saw a general from the army speak a few years ago, and an audience member asked a question that I wish I would have thought of. It was so good. He had worked for five different presidents. He was apolitical. And he said, what did you learn from each president? And he went down the line and he said Obama was very professorial. He was like, I never knew if he liked me or not when I walked into the office. But he always wanted information in a certain way. He wanted all of the information, and he wanted to regurgitate it with me. He said, Bush Jr did X, Y and Z. Clinton, he said, made every. You could be in a room of a thousand people, and he made you feel like you were the only person in the room. It was such a skill. And then he said, bush senior had this very special thing he would do. And at the end of his night, every single night, he would call a different world leader for 10 or 15 minutes just to shoot the shit. And he wouldn't ask them anything about politics or needing anything. He would just say, like, hey, how's your wife? How's your. Like, how's this? And then in two years down the road, when he needed to get the president of Tanzania on the line because he needed something, he could call him and say, hey, can you do me this favor? We're in a certain struggle. I need X, Y and Z. And he had already built the relationship because he had checked in not needing anything. And so, like, that is such an important part of relationship building.

[Vivian Tu]

You can't just call when you need something. It has to be a friendship built over time.

[Danielle Robay]

We all have those people. Do you have, like. I have those people that text me, like, every two to three years. And just because I grew up with them, they think, like, we're cool. And they're like, hey, I'm moving to so and so city. I know. You know, people like, can you hook

[Vivian Tu]

it up for me?

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, like, where do you think I should interview? It's like, excuse you, I am busy. Yeah, right.

[Vivian Tu]

I've had people literally text me and be like, can I stay at your house that I haven't spoken to in half a decade? I'm like, are you on drugs? Like, no. I don't know you like that.

[Danielle Robay]

No. And they. But had they checked in every year or so and been like, hey, Viv, I'm watching what you're doing. We're so proud of you. I loved when you said x Y and Z. And even if you don't have that big of a relationship, I might consider it. Or you might have said, you know what? You can't stay with me. But, like, there's this Airbnb I know of nearby that's awesome for a great price. Check out this link. You'd be more willing to help.

[Vivian Tu]

Yes. 100%.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah. Consistency over time. But you're good at that.

[Vivian Tu]

I try.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

I'm okay. You're really good at it. I feel like you are a really good friend because you're so curious and because you check in. I think when my life gets busy, I can become a pretty bad friend, which is unfortunate.

[Danielle Robay]

I feel that way, too. Yeah. I believe in seasons. Like, you can't be everything to everyone all the time.

[Vivian Tu]

All the time. Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah. And real friends understand that.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

But I do think, like, checking in is. Listen, if it feels like you're checking in for a purpose, just to, like, check it off the list, don't do it. Like, I only check in with people I really want. I'm like, hey, I'm thinking about you.

[Vivian Tu]

You know, you mentioned that, you know, the best relationships are built over time. They're not transactional.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Give me your take on the recent rise of the TikTok street interviewer. Hey, what are you wearing today? Tell me about your deepest secret. Tell me something about love. Like, it just feels like they're just, like, sitting in Washington Square park and asking random people questions like, what's your take on that?

[Danielle Robay]

And some of them are very deep.

[Vivian Tu]

Very deep.

[Danielle Robay]

I like watching them. I think it's fun that it exists, and I love that people are exercising their curiosity and practicing asking questions. I'm into it. It's not the type of interview I want to do, because I do think that you have to earn somebody's trust to get to the really good answer. Like, there's that person that asks, like, hey, you look confident. Why are you so confident? I've never heard anyone give a good answer to that question because it's off the street, and it's like, there's no context, and people don't know what to say. They're taken kind of off guard. But if he had talked to that person for 20 minutes and then asked that question, he would have gotten something great, you know? So I think it's what your aim is.

[Vivian Tu]

Are you just trying to have a viral video or are you trying to actually get to the answer?

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah. And I think, you know, the way that you were trained in finance. I was Trained in journalism.

[Vivian Tu]

Right.

[Danielle Robay]

And so I love that everybody's interviewing people. But I think when you watch journalists interview people, it's a different type of interview just because we've been trained.

[Vivian Tu]

I'm gonna ask a very challenging question. And this is very selfish. Cause I just wanna know the answer.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah. Hell, yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

We've talked about how to have a good conversation. Now how do I end it?

[Danielle Robay]

Ooh, I love this. I used to struggle with this so badly.

[Vivian Tu]

So good to meet you, I guess. And then I just, like, fade into oblivion.

[Danielle Robay]

So this is actually. I'm so glad you asked this. This is, like, one of the biggest barriers to conversation. People feel very nervous. They don't want to enter a conversation because they don't know how to exit. I had to ask a few friends that worked in hospitality because they are so eloquent and have to. If you're in a restaurant or a hotel, you have to talk to so many people and move on. So they all said the same thing, which is basically, if you're comfortable, you can use your hand and briefly put it on somebody's shoulder and say, it was so wonderful talking to you. I'd love to continue, but I have to go say hello to somebody over there. I'll see you soon. And you move on. You do it with. You give them a compliment. Like, I've loved speaking to you. I have to go say hello or I have to run to the bathroom. But I'll be right back. Or I'll talk to you soon.

[Vivian Tu]

That's such a clean way.

[Danielle Robay]

So clean.

[Vivian Tu]

To, like, just end it versus being like, okay, cool. Yeah. Just like, fading away, which is what I've been doing. Well.

[Danielle Robay]

And also, if you feel the conversation fading, you. Before it starts to fade, you can end it so that you end on

[Vivian Tu]

a high, high note. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that is so strong. Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

Leave people wanting more, Viv.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay. Because you have your thousand questions.

[Danielle Robay]

Yes.

[Vivian Tu]

You're the question expert. I consider myself a financial expert.

[Danielle Robay]

You are.

[Vivian Tu]

What do you think are some fun topics to start broaching? Talking about money with a friend, with a partner, with somebody else.

[Danielle Robay]

So you actually taught me this, and I implement it all the time because I think money's a really fun conversation. But you taught me you can't start with numbers. Like, you don't want to go for the jugular. Just like we talked about. You don't want to go for the jugular right away in an interview. And so I think bringing up fake scenarios or, like, pop culture scenarios are really fun and an Easy way to get people's opinions. So, like, you can say, like, oh, I just saw that. And this is an old example. Excuse me, but, like, I just saw that Brad and Angelina got married, and they had this crazy, intense prenup. What do you think about it? And so, like, you, they're not talking about themselves. They're talking about somebody else. And if someone shuts that down really quickly and is like, oh, I don't like, like, prenups. You just got so much information.

[Vivian Tu]

Right. Oof.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

And you know how you're going to be able to broach that or won't be able to broach that in the future in your personal life?

[Danielle Robay]

Absolutely. And I think you can use, you know, friend. You can make up a friend. You can make up a family member and say, like, my cousin just moved in with this girl.

[Vivian Tu]

Are we allowed to lie to become better conversationalists?

[Danielle Robay]

Oh, that's such a good question. I don't like lying, but I think that you can. I think that you can, like, make up scenarios to get people's opinions on things.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay, yeah, I'm a fake cousin.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah. Or like, this is not a fake cousin. This. This story happened to somebody. I just don't want to put them on blast. Right.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay.

[Danielle Robay]

So I don't say, like, oh, my best friend Julia, you know, but I say, like, my cousin, this happened, or whatever. Now, listen, if you're, like, dating somebody and trying to build rapport, you definitely don't want to do that. You should use the real person. I just didn't want to use it on a podcast, but. Yeah, no, I don't think you're allowed to lie.

[Vivian Tu]

No lying.

[Danielle Robay]

No, I think that's not good.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah. All right. Do you think

[Vivian Tu]

I'm going to be honest with you? I feel like there have been times where I've gone to networking events and I've done research on someone that I wanted to meet, and. And then I may have told a small white lie to just ingratiate myself or, like, immediately fling myself into a topic that I know they're passionate about.

[Danielle Robay]

Well, that's not a lie.

[Vivian Tu]

You don't think so? Even if I have no actual interest in the topic or, like, I don't know anything about them, and I just did all the research in the car over.

[Danielle Robay]

It's a lie if you pretend to love baseball, right?

[Vivian Tu]

No, I've definitely pretended to love baseball.

[Danielle Robay]

Well, see, I think that ends up. I think a lot of people do that. I used to do that.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

I think it ends up biting you in the ass. Because if you build this relationship, then you have to pretend you like baseball forever. Forever. So the better thing to do is. I love that you research people ahead of time. I think that's so thoughtful. But you can bring up baseball without pretending you love it. You don't ever have to lie. Yeah, I love that you can pretend your husband likes it.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, yeah, that's easy.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, I was watching the game last night. Cause of my husband.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, that's nice. And then when I don't know the answers to anything, I can be like, oh, well, it's my husband's thing. He. I don't know exactly. Okay, okay, okay. I want to do some rapid fire questions.

[Danielle Robay]

Let's do it.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay. So just give me the first thing that comes to mind. Easy peasy.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay.

[Vivian Tu]

What is the best money advice you've ever received?

[Danielle Robay]

It's that money doubles every seven to nine years. And that money looks better in your bank account than on your feet. Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

That's powerful. I like that a lot. What about the worst financial decision you've ever made? And tell me the story.

[Danielle Robay]

Ooh. Every year when I clean out my closet, I think to myself, why the fuck did I spend all this money on clothes that I thought would make me, I don't know.

[Vivian Tu]

Sexylicious? Yeah. 100%. I know.

[Danielle Robay]

Like, if you don't love something, save your money.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah. Every single time. It's. It's. It's close for me.

[Vivian Tu]

And I hate looking in the closet and then adding the numbers up and being like, that's money I could have had for something else. Literally anything else.

[Danielle Robay]

And then I think about the compound.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

The double.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

And I'm like, oh, My God, this $3,000 is like $12,000 at this point. Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. What is one thing that you always splurge on without guilt?

[Danielle Robay]

I hope this is an okay answer, but everything. I do not have guilt spending money. Really? No, I really. I don't. I don't feel like I'm a thing person. And so when I spend it, I've earned it and I feel good about

[Vivian Tu]

it, that seems like a really healthy relationship with money in a way that I maybe don't have. So I love that for you.

[Danielle Robay]

I didn't have it for a long time. Yeah. I had to work on it.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. What's a purchase you always skip that. Most people wouldn't.

[Danielle Robay]

All the Amazon packages.

[Vivian Tu]

You're not an Amazon, girly.

[Danielle Robay]

I am when I need to be, but I don't impulse buy. And I'm not, like, up at night being like, oh, I need this mirror, and I need, like.

[Vivian Tu]

You're like toilet paper. And that's it.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah. Just the necessities. Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay. If you could give yourself at 21 one piece of financial advice, what would it be?

[Danielle Robay]

Don't buy the shoes.

[Vivian Tu]

Don't buy the shoes. Man, we gotta see this closet. Like, that's crazy. Danielle, what size do you wear? I'll take em.

[Danielle Robay]

Oh, six.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, okay. Well, then no, because you have tiny feet. You have, like, little Cinderella princess feet. I love that for you. You're so funny. Do you have a mantra or guideline that you live by? What is it?

[Danielle Robay]

Yes. It's a Shirley Chisholm quote that Service is the rent you pay for a room on this Earth.

[Vivian Tu]

Service is the rent you pay for

[Danielle Robay]

a room on this earth. Yeah. I think it is our duty to serve others at every moment we possibly can.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. What do you think is your greatest service to the Earth?

[Danielle Robay]

I see the best in people, sometimes to my detriment, but I also wouldn't change it. And so I think that I am able to see what makes people special. And if you watch my interviews, you probably pick up on the fact. I don't mean to, but I kind of have this motivational interviewing tactic because I think people are amazing.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

And I think when I see that in someone, they are able to see it in themselves more deeply and they can go and be great in the world, hopefully.

[Vivian Tu]

I love the joy you bring to the earth.

[Danielle Robay]

Thanks, Viv.

[Vivian Tu]

And last but not least, since you are the queen of questions.

[Danielle Robay]

Yes.

[Vivian Tu]

Is there a question you've always wanted to answer in an interview but have never been asked?

[Danielle Robay]

Ooh, there's probably so many. Yes. Although I loved all the questions you asked me, I think. And I'll say this one because I think it will hopefully add value to people. It's what have you overestimated and what have you underestimated in your career? And I underestimated how much time everything would take. I, like, thought by the time I was 30 that I was gonna have all the things I ever wanted. And I had a rude awakening. I almost had none of it, really. Oh, yeah, for sure.

[Vivian Tu]

That's crazy to hear from you because I consider you to be quite an accomplished person.

[Danielle Robay]

Thank you.

[Vivian Tu]

Like, you have, like, a great life is. At least from what it seems.

[Danielle Robay]

Thank you. It is a great life. It's not perfect by any means, but I'm 35 now. I think between 32 and 33 and 35. I really felt the compound, but I put in a lot of time, money, energy, and love for a long time without seeing any return. And I had a big wonder, like, will this amount to anything? Will this matter? And I wish I could go back and tell that worried girl, like, to just get better every day. Keep putting your reps in and something good. Will. It will amount to something. We don't know what, but it will amount to something. And I think I overestimated how much talent would matter. I think talent matters. It's probably the least important metric in my opinion. If you look at anybody who you think is doing great things in the world, they've probably gotten good at the thing they're doing over time. But it is the 90% of other things that they do well that is the reason they are there. It is the execution, the hard work, the resilience, the consistency, the kindness. And I think that matters more.

[Vivian Tu]

I absolutely love that.

[Danielle Robay]

Do you agree or disagree?

[Vivian Tu]

I think I agree. Like, I. I mentioned this on our interview together on your podcast that, like, I don't think I'm smarter than people.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

But I am faster than everybody. Like, I'm going through options A, B, and C. By the time you've decided what option you're taking, I've already realized the first three don't work. So D, it is.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

And so I think it's. It's a lot of the, like, unspokens, the intangibles that actually make, like, make people special.

[Danielle Robay]

And I will tell you, from an outside perspective, people talk about your work ethic. Do they? Oh, yeah. They say Vivian works really fucking hard. And for the amount of output she has, she has actually a very small, tight knit team for what she's doing. And I, I respect the hell out of that.

[Vivian Tu]

Thank you.

[Danielle Robay]

So, yeah, I do think. I mean, you obviously have the talent, but it has been consistency over time and outpacing.

[Vivian Tu]

I also, by the way, throughout this entire interview, have realized that you've been playing Jedi mind tricks on me.

[Danielle Robay]

No.

[Vivian Tu]

Yes. Because you're doing all of the things you taught my audience.

[Danielle Robay]

What do you mean?

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. You're personalizing everything you're asking me. You are closing this out on, like, a really complimentary way I got to talk about myself. I feel like I have just been, you know, like, you, like, just brainwashed me, but, like, in a good way. Like, I love that. But I hope that my audience learns from this and is able to use those tools and resources and, you know, strategies to really be smarter during their events. Because if they're doing this, yeah, they're going to become the most likable person. They are going to become more charismatic. They're going to be remembered at networking events for asking the right questions, not getting too drunk at the Christmas party or whatever.

[Danielle Robay]

Yes.

[Vivian Tu]

And we all know, like, it's not the smartest person in the room who gets paid the most. It's the person who's best able to advocate for themselves and frankly, the person that the boss likes the best.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah. You don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate.

[Vivian Tu]

Right, Exactly.

[Danielle Robay]

If I can add one last thing to impress upon people as to why curiosity is important. If you think about all the people that you know in the world that have changed the world for the better. It literally started with a question Martin Luther King asked. What the hell is segregation and what are these unjust laws? Yeah, he questioned it. Rosa Parks, Sarah Blakely, I think about Oprah Winfrey. Serena Williams to me is a big questioner. Like she questioned authority and power and grace and female rage. James Cameron is a big questioner, like anybody you can think of. It has always started with a question. I'll give you a good one for your audience. Okay. Muhammad Yunus, he is a little known person. He was an economist and he asked the question, why can poor people not get loans if they pay them back? And he invented microcredit and millions of people could start their businesses because he asked a question. So I think if you have anything on your heart, the first thing is to ask yourself the question. And then like, then you can go after your dreams, like go after creating, inventing, et cetera. But it like really boils down to a question.

[Vivian Tu]

I know that my audience is going to be so inspired by this conversation. Thank you so much for joining me today. Danielle, tell everyone where we can find you, where we can get question, everything.

[Danielle Robay]

Thank you. Everything's at Danielle Robay so on Instagram daniellerobe.com and how about I leave you with a question?

[Vivian Tu]

Okay, let's do it.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay. Close your eyes and think about your 85th birthday. Think about who you're with, who's at your table or where you are, what would make you cry of absolute sadness that you did not do. Whatever that answer is, whether you're in your 20s, 30s, 40s or 50s. That is the thing that you need to go after right now.

[Vivian Tu]

Do I need to give you an answer?

[Danielle Robay]

If you want. You don't have to.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay. I think I might keep this one just to myself.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, I love it. It's personal.

[Vivian Tu]

Ugh. It's not where I thought you were taking it, by the way. Yeah, I thought you were gonna ask me, like, what did I envision for my 85th birthday? And I think that's a very easy answer.

[Danielle Robay]

Oh yeah, also, that's a fun question. Like, what did you do for your 18th birthday?

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, like, I feel like that was an easy answer for me. And then you pivoted it to like, what would I regret on my 85th birthday if I hadn't done. Yeah, man, you always get me.

[Danielle Robay]

I love you.

[Vivian Tu]

Thank you so much for being here.

[Danielle Robay]

Thanks for having me.

[Vivian Tu]

Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of Net Worth and Chill, part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. If you liked the episode, make sure to leave a rating and and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Got a burning financial question that you want covered in a future episode? Write to us via podcastourrichbff.com follow net worth and Chill Pod on Instagram to stay up to date on all podcast related news. And you can follow me at yourrichbff for even more financial know how. See you next week.

[Danielle Robay]

Bye.

[Vivian Tu]

Support for Net Worth and Chill comes from Adobe For a long time, turning something into a PDF kind of felt like creating a digitized fossil, like you were encasing all your grammar errors in resin for your whole team to see in perpetuity. But what if your PDF was alive? You could engage with it, collaborate through it, and ask it questions with the help of an AI assistant. You could even let your PDF talk to you by turning it into a podcast with PDF Spaces. Your PDFs stay dynamic and alive, letting you do more than you ever thought was possible. Learn [e-mail] do that with Acrobat.