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Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Mindsight and Theory of Mind PART 2: Master Your Inner Lens with Dr. Dan Siegel
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- [00:03]
Andrea Samadhi
Welcome Back to season 14 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast where we connect the science based evidence behind social and emotional learning and emotional intelligence training for improved well being, achievement, productivity and results using what I saw as the missing link since we weren't taught this when we were growing up in school, the Application Practical Neuroscience I'm Andrea Samadhi and seven years ago launched this podcast with a question that I've never truly asked myself before and that is if productivity and results matter to us, and they do now more than ever, how exactly are we using our brain to make them happen? And most of us were never taught how to apply neuroscience to improve productivity, our results or our well being. About a decade ago I became fascinated by the Mind Brain results connection and how science can be applied to our everyday lives. And that's why I've made it my mission to bring you the world's top experts so together we can explore the intersection of science and social and emotional learning. We'll break down complex ideas and turn them into practical strategies we can use for predictable science backed results. And as we kick off season 14, I've been revisiting past episodes and reflecting on the incredible insights that our guests shared since we first launched in 2019. So as we dive into this review of our past conversations, know that this review isn't just for you, it's for me as well. I've learned that slowing down helps us to uncover even more wisdom and I'm excited for us to walk this path together. Which brings us to Today's episode number 372 where we'll take Dr. Dan Siegel's concept of mindsight to the next level. On our last episode 371 with Dan Siegel, part one of our review of a very early interview, episode 28, recorded in November of 2019. We covered the importance of understanding and applying Mindsight, which is the way we focus our attention on the internal world. It's how we bring consciousness to our own thoughts and feelings and how we attune to the inner world of someone else. Mindsight gives us insight into ourselves and empathy for others. Mindsight is a concept Dr. Siegel felt to be critical for us to develop, noting this skill to be the basis for social and emotional development. He notes that it's a teachable set of skills that we can teach in school and once mastered is a truly transformational tool. In his book Mindsight, he explains this concept further. He says Mindsight is a kind of focused attention that allows us to see the internal workings of our own minds and we've been talking about how important it is to go within for true change in our lives to occur. Dr. Siegel says it helps us to be aware of our mental processes without being swept away by them, which enables us to get ourselves off the autopilot of ingrained behaviors and habitual responses and moves us beyond the reactive emotional loops that we have the tendency to get trapped in. It lets us name and tame the emotions that we're experiencing rather than be overwhelmed by them. And he says to consider the difference between saying I am sad and I feel sad. As similar as those two statements may seem, there is actually a profound difference between them. I am sad is a kind of self definition and, and a very limiting one. I feel sad suggests the ability to recognize and acknowledge a feeling without being consumed by it. The focusing skills that are a part of mindsight make it possible to see what it is inside, to accept it and in the accepting, to let it go and finally to transform it into a new reality. You can also think of mindsight as a very special lens that gives us the capacity to perceive the mind with greater clarity than ever before. This lens is something that virtually everyone can develop. And once we have it, we can dive deeply into the mental sea inside, he says. Explore our own inner lives and those of others. A uniquely human ability. Mindsight allows us to examine closely, in detail and in depth, the processes by which we think, feel, and behave. And it allows us to reshape and redirect our inner experiences so that we have more freedom of choice in our everyday actions, giving us more power to create the future, to become the author of our own story. Another way to put it is that mindsight is the basic skill that underlies everything we mean when we speak of having social and emotional intelligence. You can click on the link in the show notes to watch. Video clip 1.
- [05:47]
Dr. Dan Siegel
If you don't have Mindsight tools to know what the inner subjective life is like, you're not going to have social skills either. Because our social capacity to be connected to one another, and I think of it more as relational skills of being related to not just people who are like you, but people who are not like you, and also to species that are not like you to all living beings. It's kind of a relational intelligence, if you will. This moves you from a linear thinking person saying it's all about me, me, me, to realizing who I am. My identity is more a part of this larger whole. And so social intelligence is embracing the system's reality that mindsight allows you to see that there's an inner and an inter aspect to the mind. The inner you could focus on for emotional intelligence, if you will. The social intelligence would be for the inter. And it's all a part of mindsight really and this teachable set of skills that we can teach in school.
- [06:46]
Andrea Samadhi
Some key takeaways about mindsight from this first clip he explains the definition of mindsight, which is focused attention that helps us to perceive the internal workings of our mind. And last week, in part one of our review of Dr. Siegel, we looked at mindsight as the way we focus our attention on the internal world. It's how we bring consciousness to our own thoughts and feelings and then how we attune to the inner world of someone else. Some benefits of mindsight Mindsight helps us to step out of autopilot and habitual emotional reactions. It encourages us to name and tame emotions instead of being consumed by them. An example, I am sad, which is a self definition versus I feel sad, which is acknowledgment without the identity attachment. And this creates clarity, self awareness and the ability to transform our thoughts, feelings and actions. Which is why we can become the author of our own story. When we can do this, we can change our results and our outer world. And just a reminder, if we don't like what's happening in our external world, whether it's our job, our relationships, our results, our or any area of life, we must first look inward. Our circumstances mirror the beliefs and thoughts that we hold within. And once we can master mindsight, our inner world, we can then with certainty watch our outer world transform. And this is a well known concept that Bob Proctor would teach in his seminars. He just labeled the terminology different. But to me this is where science connects to some of those age old success principles that I watched transform the lives of thousands of people when I worked with Proctor in the motivational speaking industry. Then we looked at mindsight as a lens. It helps us to look inward with depth and precision. It allows reshaping and redirecting of our inner experiences, giving us more freedom and choice. It empowers us to be the author of our own life story. And it serves as the foundation of social and emotional intelligence. And it allows us to be the captain of our own ship, giving us the ability to make changes within which creates changes in our external world. Just some key points from that first video clip with Dr. Siegel. Without mindsight tools, we cannot develop true social skills, which means relational intelligence. Our ability to connect with not just people like us, but also those unlike us. And with all living beings. It moves us from that linear, self focused thinking of me, me, me to a systems perspective, who I am, that our identity is a part of a larger whole. There's the inner aspect, our emotional intelligence and the inter aspect, the social intelligence or how we connect to others. And both are a part of mindsight, a set of teachable skills that can be taught in schools. So what are some practical tips for developing Mindsight? Learn theory of mind Dr. Dan Siegel explained in our interview that mindsight is the same thing as theory of mind and we first explored this concept back on episode 4:46 Developing and using Theory of mind in your daily life and if we want to strengthen our ability to see the mind of another, whether it's called mindsight or theory of Mind, I recommend reviewing that episode where we cover how to use this skill in both the classroom and the workplace. In that discussion, I shared my own first experience of learning to read the mind of another through their eyes. And this was a skill that my mother taught me in my 20s. Neuroscientist Dr. John Medina defines this capacity as the ability to understand the intentions and motivations of someone else. This ability can even be measured through a theory of mind test that was developed by Professor Simon Baron Cohen, who's the cousin of the well known actor and comedian Sacha Baron Cohen. Theory of mind is crucial for everyday social interactions and it allows us to analyze, judge and infer other people's behaviors. And this is an important social cognitive skill. Theory of Mind gives us the ability to think about mental states our own as well as others. And John Medina gave a powerful example of Theory of Mind in our episode 42 when he described how Walt Disney, in sharing his vision for Disneyland with Art Link Letter missed critical social cues. Had Disney recognized and responded differently to Linkletter's perspective, the outcome of their interaction and possibly their partnership might have been very different. And if you're curious about your Theory of Mind score, you can take the test yourself and then see if you can use these tips to improve your score and with time, practice and improve your social interactions as you become more in tune with others. I scored 29 out of 36 with this test in 2020 and just got the exact same score again yesterday five years later. Which tells me that there are some facial expressions that I've not yet mastered and that learning is an ongoing process. And another tip to improve theory of mind Dr. Medina shared the research, telling me in our interview that you can improve your theory of Mind score by reading narrative fiction 10 to 15 minutes a day by authors who've won awards so that you're reading well thought out sentences. He suggests to create book clubs and study literature as a group to continue to work on that skill that Dr. Siegel thinks is the basis for social and emotional learning. Moving on to our second video clip. You can watch our second video clip by clicking on the link in the show notes. We're so immersed in our technology, we're not looking around even at our kids. I know. This weekend we played a board game with the girls, and it was the first time we all sat around the whole family together looking at each other because they're on their devices if we're doing our work in our offices. So it's just different times. But being more mindful to connect, I.
- [13:32]
Dr. Dan Siegel
Think is, well, totally. Even if you look at Patricia Kuhl and Andrew Meltzoff's study on. I don't need to name names, but it was a. An educational program, you know, that was said to increase. It was a video increase kids learning. And then a major corporation bought it, and then they did the study to show that actually if you use those videos and take time away from face to face learning, the kids actually learn less language.
- [13:59]
Andrea Samadhi
I learned that study. Yeah.
- [14:01]
Dr. Dan Siegel
And so it isn't that the video was bad, it's just that it takes time away from how we really learn, which is in relationship.
- [14:13]
Andrea Samadhi
And some key takeaways from clip number two. We learn in relationship. In the second video clip, I asked Dr. Siegel about the challenges technology poses for young children, and he pointed me to the work of Patricia Kuhl and Andrew Meltzoff, who studied an educational video program that was marketed as a way to boost children's learning. And a major corporation later purchased the program. And it's kind of interesting that our past example of theory of mind mentioned that major corporation. Anyway, this major corporation purchased the program, and research revealed that children who spent more time with the videos at the expense of face to face interaction actually learned less language. The takeaway wasn't that the video itself was harmful, but that it displaced what truly fuels learning, relationships and human connection. And just a note. I remember in the timeframe that this educational video series was popular. I was a nanny, and many parents had asked me to sit with their infant and play this exact video series. And I remember feeling badly that I was being paid to just sit there. And at the time, I had a teaching degree, and I could have used that time more wisely playing or, or interacting with these infants, building their experiences with someone new. But again, when we know better with the research, we can do better. So what's a practical tip to improve this skill we learn in relationship Revisit our first interview with Greg Wolcott that was episode seven on building relationships in today's schools. Greg is the author of the book significance 72 Unleashing the power of Relationship in Today's Schools, and he's on a serious mission to impact our schools with this movement. He's currently the Assistant Superintendent for Teaching and Learning in a suburb of Chicago, as well as an adjunct professor and as an educator in the Chicago area for over 25 years. He's passionate about developing opportunities for all students to succeed as well as finding ways for all teachers and staff members to utilize their strengths and to maximize learning. His significant 72 initiative has been implemented in hundreds of schools across the United States and Canada, and I first heard of Greg talking about this initiative on a SEL Social Emotional Learning webinar where he described what was so significant about 72 this number in our schools. And the concept came about when Greg noticed that some of the students would return to school after three day weekends and not knowing what many of our students face outside of the school, they would spend extra time with students to rebuild their relationships upon these returns. And the results were significant enough for him to write a book about it and create a program around this concept. And like Dr. Siegel said in video clip two, we learn in relationship not by sitting in front of videos or technology, but by interacting with each other. So keep on building strong relationships with as many face to face learning experiences as you can. So as we wrap up episode 372, part two of our review with Dr. Dan J. Siegel, we looked at two powerful clips that brought mindsight to life. Key points from the first video clip with Dr. Siegel without mindsight tools we cannot develop true social skills skills. Relational intelligence is the ability to connect not just with people like us, but with those unlike us and with all living beings. Mindsight helps us move from linear self focused thinking like Me Me Me to a systems perspective where identity is part of a larger whole. And there's the inner aspect that connects to emotional intelligence and the inner inter aspect that connects to social intelligence or how we're linked to others. And both the inner and inter aspects are a part of mindsight, a set of teachable skills that can even be taught in schools. Practical Tips for Developing Mindsight we talked on our last episode about exploring the wheel of Awareness meditation to strengthen your ability to see your own mind and then the mind of others and today we talked about learning Theory of Mind Take the Theory of Mind test, track your score and apply practices to improve your awareness of other people's perspectives. And then Dr. John Medina's suggestion read narrative fiction daily 10 to 15 minutes, ideally from award winning authors and research shows this sharpens our ability to see both our own mind and the minds of others. And a key takeaway from clip number two we learn in relationship with others. Some practical tips to improve this skill. Revisit episode 7 with Greg Wolcott on building relationships in today's schools. And remember that early 2000s educational program study that proved learning occurs through interaction and relationships, not through isolated video learning. And by practicing mindsight, the ability to see our own mind and then the minds of others, we tap into what Richard Simon, Ph.D. and editor of Psychology Network, said of Dr. Siegel. He said, unmatched by anyone in the field, Mindsight offers a fascinating synthesis about the new brain science for understanding relationships and the process of human change. Now that We've reviewed part one and part two of Dr. Siegel's interview focusing on how to understand and apply mindsight in our daily lives, I realize that we've only just begun to scratch the surface of his work. We'll continue to deepen these ideas when we reach Joe Dispenza's research, but for now, this is a powerful foundation of learning to apply mindsight to our lives and and become the captain of our own ship. And with that, we'll see you next week as we continue to sharpen our understanding of our mind and brain with neuro leadership pioneer Frederica Fabricis. See you next week.
- [20:46]
Podcast Announcer
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