← Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
What Gets Measured Gets Improved: Sleep, Recovery & Peak Performance with Dr. Kristen Holmes
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome Back to season 15 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast. I'm Andrea Samadhi, and it's here that we bridge the science behind social and emotional learning, emotional intelligence, and practical neuroscience so we can create measurable improvements in well being, achievement, productivity, and results. Now, when we launched this podcast seven years ago, it was driven by a question that I'd never been taught to ask. Not in school, not in business, and not in life. And the question was, if results matter, and they matter now more than ever before, how exactly are we using our brain to make these results happen? Now, most of us weren't taught what to do. Very few of us were taught how to think under pressure, or how to regulate our emotions, or how to sustain our motivation, or even how to produce consistent results without burning out. And that question led me to a deep exploration of the mind, brain, results, connection, and how neuroscience applies to everyday decisions, to our conversations and our performance. And that's why this podcast exists. Each week, we bring you leading experts to break down complex science and then translate it into practical strategies that we can all apply immediately. In season 15, we've organized as a review roadmap, where each episode explores one foundational brain system and each phase builds on the one before it. And in phase one, regulation and safety, we we're asking one essential question. Is the nervous system safe enough to learn? And today we cover this topic as we travel back to May of 2021 for episode 134. When we first met Dr. Kristen Holmes, she was the VP of Performance Science at Whoop. And back then, I had just turned 50 and I'd purchased a Whoop wearable tracker to help me to improve my weakest link at the time. And that was sleep. So for Today's episode number 390, we revisit this earlier episode with Dr. Kristin Holmes and her work that centers around one powerful truth. What gets measured gets improved. And in our original conversation, we explored sleep recovery and strain and how understanding your body's data can transform performance, health and resilience. And this episode bridges physiology and performance, showing how awareness becomes optimization. Now, a lot has changed with the WHOOP wearable device in the past five years, and you actually don't even need to use a wearable to tune into our conversation, but you can see how to improve your weakest link once you've discovered what it is. Now, in this first clip from our 2021 interview, I brought up a powerful idea that I'd heard Dr. Holmes say. She said it's what you're doing in your spare time that gives you your competitive advantage. And this concept stayed with me for years because most people assume it's the hard training, the workouts, the grind that create results. But after wearing the WHOOP device for the past five years, I've seen something very different. It's the behaviors outside of the workouts, it's my sleep recovery, my daily habits that have had the biggest impact on my health and performance. And Dr. Holmes expanded on this, explaining that even at the highest levels of sport, this is what separates people. It's what you're doing in your spare time that gives you your competitive advantage.
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Yeah, yeah, I say that a lot. You know, I work a ton with, you know, surgical teams and tactical athletes and professional athletes, you know, these really high stake environments, high risk in many ways. And you know, that's kind of the cross that they bear, is not really, you know, how they're engaging their craft. It's really, it's how they're spending their downtime, you know, and that's, that's the sacrifice frankly is, you know, are you drinking alcohol in your downtime? Are you finding ways to get sleep, are you engaging in, you know, non sleep depressed protocols, you know, to try to create more balance between kind of your, you know, to balance out the kind of stress that you're incurring, you know, during, when you're engaged in your craft. Like, you know, are you fueling properly, are you hydrating properly, are you finding time for exercise and meditation? And you know, that's, that's really the, I, I think in some ways the cross that we are all bear. But I think that's if we have interest in being engaged and present in our life for the things that matter, those things matter. And to pretend that they don't is, I feel like missing an opportunity really.
- [05:04]
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And looking back now at my decision to purchase the Whoop wearable device when I turned 50 was one of the best decisions that I've ever made. Nothing is left to chance. I'm no longer guessing. And I chose to dive into my data with this device. But you can still gain incredible insights from using a wearable or not just by listening to your body. And here are some of the key takeaways from clip one. Number one, your competitive advantage is built in your downtime. It's not just what you do during performance, it's how you recover, how you reset and how you prepare outside of your performance. And it took me years to truly balance strain with rest. And we'll go deeper into that in the next clip. But some questions for you, the listener. Do you know when your body can push harder and when to rest? And when you're resting, are you fueling your body? Are you preparing for the next push? And what can you do to improve your health in your downtime? And these are all great questions that will give you your own competitive advantage, whether you're an athlete or a regular person like me who just wants to optimize their performance. Takeaway 2 Recovery drives performance, not just effort. Sleep. HRV, our heart rate variability and our nervous system balance determine how well your brain and body will perform the next day. With the WHOOP device, you can actually see this. When you wake up and you see green, you know you have the capacity to push harder. When you wake up and see yellow, you proceed with caution. And when you wake up and see red, you know you've got to prioritize some recovery. And your HRV score feeds into this, giving you a daily signal of when to push and when to pull back. So a question for you, the listener, do you monitor your hrv? And we've covered this topic often. If you want to review past episodes, our most recent one, episode 389 with Rohan Dixit and episode 228. There's many ways to monitor this number. The gold standard way is with an electrocardiogram or, or you can use your smartphone with various apps or choose a wearable device like the Whoop or the Oura ring. Takeaway 3. Small daily habits compound into measurable results. What and when you eat, how you sleep, your alcohol use and stress levels, they all show up in your data. And I log everything. And over time the patterns do become clear. When you see what hurts your recovery, it becomes much easier to change it. And for the things that we can't remove, like stress, we can offset them. And that's where tools like meditation, breathing or non sleep deep rest become powerful. Takeaway 4. High performers are disciplined with recovery. And at elite levels, the difference isn't effort, it's consistency and habits. And for me, improving sleep was the starting point. And if this is an area that you want to optimize, Dr. Matthew Walker's work on sleep is a great place to begin. Takeaway 5. You can't ignore physiology and expect optimal results. If the body isn't being supported, the brain cannot sustain focus, decision making and emotional control. And this is why we began with phase one as regulation and safety. Because when the systems are aligned, everything else becomes possible. And over time, with small consistent Steps we really can transform our results. Now let's take a closer look. How do we put these tips into action? First track one Recovery metric Every day Start simple. Whether it's sleep duration hrv, you can easily find a device that measures this metric. And eventually you can learn how to guess this number by how rested or alert you feel when you wake up. Awareness is the first step to change. Tip 2 Build a shutdown routine at night, consider a consistent wind down routine. Lower your lights, have no screens an hour before bed and use breathing or non sleep deep breaths before you go to bed. And this signals safety to the nervous system. Tip 3 Audit your downtime. Honestly ask yourself, does this activity that I'm choosing to do help me to recover or does it drain me? Whether it's with alcohol, late nights, scrolling versus going to sleep, reading or your recovery. Tip 4 Prioritize your sleep like you prioritize your work. Aim for consistent sleep wake times and seven to eight hours minimum and this would be your number one performance lever. Tip 5 Add one daily regulation practice. Choose something simple. Five minutes of breathing, going for a walk outside or adding meditation and this builds resilience when you're under pressure. And finally tip 6 think in terms of energy management, not time management. Protect your energy the same way that you protect your daily schedule. And over time you'll notice small changes will yield incredible results. Now Moving to our second clip with Dr. Kristin Holmes. In this second clip, Dr. Holmes expands on what it really takes to build a competitive advantage. She explains that if we truly want to live aligned with our values, with energy, focus and joy, there are a few non negotiables that we can't ignore. And at the top of that list is sleep. But just as important as sleep is understanding how to balance two key variables strain your cardiovascular load and recovery, your body's capacity to take on that load. And that's exactly what the WHOOP device measures. It measures your strain, your recovery and your sleep every day. And as Dr. Holmes puts it, these aren't optional numbers. They're foundational to being human. Because without understanding these signals, we're not optimizing, we're guessing. And that's where the opportunity is.
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If you want to, you know, live with your values with as much energy and, you know, and joy as possible. You know, there are some kind of non negotiables that you need to be considering. And one of those is sleep. And the other, in my opinion, is understanding how to balance your cardiovascular load and your recovery. Right, or your recovery and your cardiology cardiovascular load. And really those are the things that, the three things that measures is, you know, strain, your cardiovascular load, recovery, your capacity to take on strain and sleep. And to me those are, those are really non negotiables if you're a human being, right. If you don't understand that, then you know, you're, you're really just guessing, honestly. And that's where I think that's the opportunity. I mean I've always seen technology as really an opportunity to foster human performance, right? And really, and foster well being and thriving and you know, so I think if we take, I think we say human performance, we think athletes, but this is anyone, you know, it's really anyone on earth, on this earth who is, who's interested in living their, their, you know, potential, you know, probably needs to be measuring some things, right? And, and like I said, you know, I think we, we, we measure really the fundamentals and I think it, it does start with sleep.
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Some key takeaways from clip two. Number one, there are non negotiables for living at your potential. And if you want energy for focus and joy, you can't ignore the foundational behaviors that support our brain and body. Takeaway two, Sleep is the number one performance driver. Everything starts with sleep and without it, recovery, cognition and emotional regulation all suffer. Takeaway three, Performance is a balance between strain and recovery. Strain is that load you place on your system and recovery your capacity to handle the load. And real growth happens when these are aligned. Takeaway four, without data, you're just guessing. If you're not measuring sleep, recovery and strain, you're relying on how you feel, which could be inaccurate. I'd say to measure first and then you can go with how you feel. Tip 5 Technology can enhance self awareness and performance. Tools like Whoop aren't just for athletes. They help anyone understand their body and make better daily decisions. And six, human performance applies to everyone. This isn't just about elite sport. It's about showing up with the energy and clarity for your life, for your work and your relationships. So how do we put these tips into action? First, identify your non negotiables. Start with sleep recovery habits and movements. And then ask, what are two to three things that I'm going to protect daily, no matter what? Now, I started with sleep. And improving my sleep started with one simple question. Where's my weakest link? And for me, it was clear I wasn't getting enough sleep. Living in Arizona, I've always woken up early to beat the heat and get exercise out of the way. Early. But over time I realized that consistently cutting my sleep short was creating sleep debt that I wasn't recovering from. So I made a small adjustment. A few days each week I allow myself to sleep in a bit longer and that alone has helped me to start closing that gap. When I look at my past month of sleep scores, I can see the pattern clearly. I rarely hit optimal sleep. I just could do this better. I don't get 85% or more usually unless I'm on vacation. Most nights fall in the sufficient range, so 70 to 85% and some nights I still drop into poor sleep. But the difference now for me is awareness. If I see a low score, I'll make the effort to recover even something as simple as going back to sleep or adjusting my next day. And while I'm starting with the basics sleep quantity, there's still more to it. And if you study Dr. Matthew Walker, he highlights four key areas to look at. Quantity how long you sleep what I'm looking at Quality. How well do you sleep? Regularity. Are you consistent with your sleep and wake times? And then timing when do you go to sleep? So here are some things to think about. Do you know where your weakest link is when it comes to your sleep? Because once you identify it, you can start to improve it. Moving into recovery now Managing our stress and our capacity in our day When I look at my recovery data for the last month, one thing I've noticed from tracking this data is that when my stress levels are lower, it's much easier to stay in the yellow range. So 34 to 66% recovery or green 67 to 99% recovery. But add in that stress and that's when I start to see more red. So having a 1% to 33% recovery scores. So instead of ignoring stress, I focused on offsetting it. And here's what I've added to my schedule to support recovery on those higher stress days. I've added an infrared sauna daily, which helps me to feel better and reset before my day starts. I've been using red light therapy to help whatever body part is hurting and I get outside early in the morning to sleep better. At night I hydrate, especially after exercise. And I never forget meditation and deep breathing. And these small consistent habits bring my system back into balance. And this is still a work in progress for me. I'm always looking for new ways to offset stress. And what's interesting in this is that I learned that we don't need to have perfect conditions to improve our recovery. I recently listened to Dr. Andrew Huberman's podcast where he explained that the benefits of deliberate heat exposure or using a sauna that include increasing heat shock proteins at certain temperatures that help offset stress levels. That this practice doesn't require actually having to access a sauna. He explained that you can create similar effects simply by exercising with extra layers of clothing and raising your core body temperature intentionally. And it's about understanding the principle, not just the tool. The sauna and then making the principle work for you. And I've often seen people hiking or running in Arizona in hot temperatures wearing lots of clothing and I now understand this concept. Some reflection questions what could you add to your daily routine to better support your recovery? And once you understand what impacts your system, you can begin to intentionally regulate it. And finally going into movements or our daily strain and ways to find the balance. This was one of the hardest areas for me to figure out. WHOOP calls it our daily strain. Your cardiovascular load for the day. And what I started to notice was a pattern. The harder I trained, the more sleep I needed. And when I couldn't get that sleep because I had to wake up early and scrimp on sleep, I wasn't recovering. And it became a cycle. Too much strain and not enough sleep gave me a poor recovery over and over again. And I did this for years because I had no idea how to change it. I I needed movement to function, but too much intensity too often was actually working against me. I even saw it reflected in my blood work when I uploaded my labs into whoop. Some biomarkers showed inflammation, confirming what the data was already telling me. I was pushing too hard too often. And I knew this just by tuning into my body. But again, I had no idea how to change this until I realized that I had to actually change what I was doing. And here's what surprised me the most. It wasn't about pushing harder. It was about being more strategic. One day I walked my dogs for an hour along this canal near my house and I wore my weighted vest. And during that walk I hit some minutes in zone four and even zone five, something that I didn't always reach. Even during long three hour hikes. It was just a few minutes. But for me, accessing these zones is really difficult. So I took notice. That really surprised me because I had always assumed that I just had to push harder. But the data showed something different. I could exercise at a lower intensity on those walks and I could move the needle for me with my daily strain with without having to go all out. I also started to notice something interesting. When I compared hikes with different mountains here in Arizona, my strain was actually higher on longer but easier trails than I went on shorter, more intense hikes like Camelback Mountain. That's famous here in Arizona for its difficulty, and it's straight uphill. And this made me realize that it's not just how hard something feels in the moment. It's. It's about how your body responds over time. And that's where tracking becomes so valuable, because it shifts you from guessing to actually understanding what's driving your results. And that changed everything for me because it showed me you don't need extreme workouts. You just need the right dose of intensity. And this dose is different from person to person. And for me, I learned I just need to hit about 20 minutes of zone 4 and 5. Those higher intensity workouts a week combined with consistent movement in lower intensity zones 1 to 3, using my daily walks for about an hour or so each day. And that balance, understanding how much all out that I needed, helped me to hit my goals without compromising recovery. So here's something to think about. Do you know how much time you spend each week in zones 1 to 3, low to moderate exercise versus zone 4 to 5, higher intensity exercise? Because once you understand your balance, you can start to train smarter, not just harder. So to review and conclude this week's episode 390 with Dr. Kristen Holmes, one message stands out clearly. What gets measured gets improved. And more importantly, what gets ignored gets left to chance. In clip one, we explored a powerful idea. Your competitive advantage isn't built during performance. It's built in your downtime, in your sleep, in your recovery, in the small daily habits that, that most people overlook. And in clip two, we went deeper. We uncovered the non negotiables for living at your highest potential. Sleep recovery. And the balance between strain and capacity. Because without understanding these, we're not optimizing, we're guessing. And what this episode shows us is something even more important. This isn't just for elite athletes. This is for anyone who wants to think clearly, to perform consistently, and to show up fully present in their life. When I look back at my own journey over the past five years of using data to guide my decisions, everything changed when I stopped asking, how hard can I push? And I started asking, what is my body actually capable of today? And that shift from pushing harder to aligning better is where sustainable results begin. And this is phase one, regulation and safety. Because before we can optimize our performance, before we can talk about mindset, focus or productivity. The brain and body must be supported. And when they are, we don't just perform better, we recover faster, we think clearer, and we live with more energy, intention and control. So a final thought for you. Where is your weakest link right now? Is it with sleep recovery or with movement and strain? Because once you can identify it and in 2021, my weakest link was definitely my sleep. And since then I've worked so hard to improve this metric and and while it's not my strength yet, I'm miles ahead of where I was five years ago. My weakest link now is very clear. It's with improving strength training. But that's another topic. But what I clearly know now is what is measured improves. There's no more guessing. Just start measuring and begin to align our daily behaviors with how our brain and body actually work. And we've spent this episode understanding how to support the brain by measuring certain data. But what happens after we do this? What's next? What is the brain actually doing while we sleep? And that's where things get fascinating. Next week we'll close out Phase one on Regulation and Safety with sleep scientist Antonio Zadra, who brings us full circle. And we'll review our conversation from January of 2021, episode 104, where we explored why the brain dreams and how sleep helps to integrate learning, solve problems and sparks creativity. And this episode reminds us that insight isn't forced, it emerges when the brain is given the space to rest and then connect. So we'll see you next week for our final episode in Phase one, Regulation and Safety, as we complete the foundation for everything that comes next. We'll see you next time.
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