Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books in Psychoanalysis

Host: Marshall Poe
Guest: Dr. Gila Ashtor
Episode: "Exigent Psychoanalysis: The Interventions of Jean Laplanche" (Routledge, 2021)
Date: January 18, 2023

Episode Overview

This episode explores Dr. Gila Ashtor's new book, Exigent Psychoanalysis: The Interventions of Jean Laplanche. The discussion centers on Laplanche’s unique position within the psychoanalytic tradition, his response to the limitations of both classical and relational psychoanalysis, and his enduring relevance for contemporary theory and clinical practice. Dr. Ashtor reflects on the need for innovation within the field, the breadth and density of Laplanche’s work, and the challenges of questioning psychoanalytic canon.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dr. Ashtor’s Engagement with Laplanche

• Motivation & Discovery
  • Dr. Ashtor describes her initial difficulty with Laplanche's dense writing, returning to it later out of a need for alternatives beyond entrenched psychoanalytic debates (03:33).
  • She sees Laplanche as offering a "real alternative to the usual approaches" that neither aligns entirely with classical nor relational psychoanalysis:

    “Laplanche just seemed almost right away like an alternative that was neither one nor the other, but something totally different. And that felt so, so refreshing... because it felt like such a stale debate.” (03:33)

• Relevance for Anglo-American Readers:
  • Laplanche’s thought offers a unique intervention to theoretical debates ingrained in American psychoanalytic consciousness.

2. Laplanche’s ‘Third Way’ and Present Needs

• Theoretical Integration
  • The current psychoanalytic landscape seeks to retain the centrality of sexuality and drive—albeit reformulated—while also recognizing the concrete realities of attachment (06:02).
  • Laplanche is unique in combining the reality of the other (a relational focus) with the enduring importance of drive and sexuality (06:02).

3. Critical Examination of Psychoanalytic Discourse

• The Issue of Language and Tradition

  • The persistence of Freudian terminology and reluctance to discard obsolete concepts create stagnation:

    “The grammar of our discourse is filled with constructions we do not believe anymore.” (18:44)

  • There is anxiety and trepidation about questioning orthodoxy, as if doing so might bring down the whole conceptual structure—compared to a precarious game of Jenga (19:19).

• Cultural Transmission of Prohibitions

  • Both practitioners and patients absorb psychoanalytic "rules" even if never directly stated:

    “Patients will say...I know you never want me to call you in between sessions. I know I’m not supposed to look at you...None of which I’ve said.” (22:13)

4. Laplanche on Otherness and ‘Enlarged Sexuality’

• Sexuality as Exogenous and Intersubjective
  • Laplanche challenges the notion that desire and sexuality are self-generated. Instead, the sexual is introduced from the outside—particularly the adult caregiver—to the innocent infant, shaping the child’s unconscious (29:12):

    “We have a real tendency...to really assume that desire originates with us...Laplanche is saying...it’s totally the opposite. First, the baby is innocent...the adult...has a sexuality. This sexuality becomes a problem for the baby...” (29:12)

• Productivity of Encounter
  • Unlike Ferenczi, for whom “confusion of tongues” often highlighted trauma, Laplanche generalizes the encounter as both creative and developmental, not solely pathological (34:24):

    “It’s not really just a tragic thing. It’s also...a prerequisite for emotional and psychological development...” (34:24)

5. Trauma, Fantasy, and the Role of the Other

• Laplanche reframes the classical debate over fantasy vs. trauma:

  “Laplanche says, well, not so fast. It’s really not about trauma versus fantasy...what Freud really abandons is the fact that people are impacted by actual other people. It's mediated by fantasy, but there are other people there.” (11:37)

• He insists on accounting for both internal fantasy and concrete otherness in metapsychology.

6. Attachment, Affect, and the (Un)Conscious Parent

• Avoiding the Blame Game
  • Laplanche's model emphasizes that unconscious messages from the parent—not explicit actions or intentions—are the pivotal influence:

    “Unless you were comfortable blaming adults, parents for their unconscious, which, like, I don’t...that seems like blaming them for breathing.” (45:59)

• The Creative Function of Unmediated Communication
  • The “unmediated fire” of the adult's unconscious catalyzes the child's creativity and capacity for translation (49:33).

7. Affect and its Place in Psychoanalysis

• Despite affect being overlooked in classical theory (and Laplanche not addressing it directly), Dr. Ashtor argues for its centrality—especially as a nonverbal, regulatory mode of communication between infant and caregiver:

  “Affect helps us...understand what’s actually getting communicated between the adult and the child...precisely those things the adult is unaware of.” (50:13)

• Considering a comprehensive affect theory as a possible replacement for Freud’s dual instinct theory is an open question for the field and the subject of Dr. Ashtor’s next project (54:28, 54:47).

8. Encouragement for Clinicians and Readers

• Dr. Ashtor values Laplanche’s ethos of “putting psychoanalysis to work” and urges practitioners to experiment with these ideas clinically, without fear of “breaking” psychoanalysis:

  “Putting Laplanche to work...we shouldn’t be so worried about breaking anything...Let’s see what happens when we use these ideas...” (56:28)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Theoretical Language:
  “The grammar of our discourse is filled with constructions we do not believe anymore.”
  — Podcast Host (18:44)

• On the Anxiety of Questioning Tradition:
  “There’s this incredible trepidation to go, what am I allowed to question? And if I question the wrong thing, is this Jenga? Am I going to topple the whole thing?”
  — Podcast Host (18:44)

• On Laplanche’s Radical Claim about Sexuality:
  “It’s the thing that comes at us from the other person first...It’s the total opposite.”
  — Dr. Ashtor (29:12)

• On the Role of the Parent’s Unconscious:
  “What Laplanche is saying is they simply can’t do a thing without their own unconscious being part of it, and no one can.”
  — Dr. Ashtor (45:59)

• On Affect as Missing Link:
  “Affect gives us a way of understanding that...these communications from the adult...are not mediated by language necessarily.”
  — Dr. Ashtor (50:13)

• On Clinicians’ Duty:
  “If we are making claims as healers...then we must sooner or later demonstrate that our ideas are in accord with findings from neighboring disciplines.”
  — Podcast Host (09:09, citing Arnold Cooper)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:33 — Dr. Ashtor’s initial response to Laplanche’s writing & discovery of his “third way”
• 06:02 — Present theoretical needs and Laplanche’s synthesis of drive and attachment
• 11:37 — The Freud “seduction theory” moment and divergent interpretations
• 18:44 — Critique of psychoanalytic language and anxiety about questioning tradition
• 29:12 — Laplanche’s theory of sexuality as exogenous and intersubjective
• 34:24 — Laplanche vs. Ferenczi on the encounter between child and adult
• 45:59 — On (not) blaming parents and the function of the unconscious
• 50:13 — Affect and the communication of the unconscious
• 54:47 — Dr. Ashtor’s future work on affect theory
• 56:28 — Encouragement to "put psychoanalysis to work" and experiment clinically

Conclusion

Dr. Gila Ashtor’s Exigent Psychoanalysis serves as both a rigorous engagement with Jean Laplanche’s innovative thinking and a call for psychoanalysis to embrace change, uncertainty, and clinical experimentation. The episode is rich with theoretical reflection, clinical implication, and thoughtful critique of psychoanalytic tradition––offering compelling reasons for scholars and practitioners alike to (re)discover Laplanche’s interventions.