Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books in Psychoanalysis
Host: Miriam Sauer
Guest: Dr. Udo Hock
Episode: Udo Hock, "The Enigmatic Messages of the Other: On the Work of Jean Laplanche" (Psychosozial-Verlag, 2024)
Date: January 26, 2025

This episode features an in-depth conversation with Dr. Udo Hock, a leading German translator, psychoanalyst, and close collaborator of Jean Laplanche, about his new book The Enigmatic Messages of the Other: On the Work of Jean Laplanche. The discussion explores Laplanche’s contributions to psychoanalytic theory, his innovations such as the primacy of the Other, the general theory of seduction, mythosymbolism, and the concept of the enclaved unconscious, as well as the clinical and philosophical implications of his ideas. Alongside, Dr. Hock reflects on his personal intellectual journey, Laplanche’s relationship to other major figures like Freud, Klein, and Lacan, and the place of Laplanche’s thought in the future of psychoanalysis.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. The Foundations of Laplanche’s Work

Primacy of the Other and of the Sexual

• 04:00–06:33
  • Primacy of the Other: In Laplanche’s theory, the unconscious is not an inherited aspect but is constituted by enigmatic messages from the Other, typically the caregiver or adult.
  • Primacy of the Sexual: This refers not to genital or conscious sexuality, but to the polymorphous, "perverse" side of infantile sexuality familiar from Freud; the messages from the Other have an inherently sexual, untranslatable residue.
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 04:25):
  “Primacy of the other means that what comes into the unconscious comes first from the other by the enigmatic messages of the other.”

2. Enigmatic Messages and the Message Concept

• 06:33–09:27
  • Laplanche’s concept of "the message" emerges late in his work, replacing earlier terms like "enigmatic signifier." The message is an excitation from the adult that is often unconscious and untranslatable for the child.
  • Example: Parental over-ambition shaping a child through unconscious desires or excitations.
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 06:49):
  “From the other, from the adult other... comes a kind of excitation which is very difficult to bind, to translate for the child. ...It’s not the conscious side of what is said, but it’s more or less the unconscious side...”

3. Laplanche’s "Copernican Revolution" in Psychoanalysis

• 09:27–12:51
  • Laplanche extends Freud’s idea of the Copernican Revolution, emphasizing the centrality of the unconscious which is fundamentally constituted from the Other, not the self (allocentric rather than autocentric).
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 10:03):
  “The unconscious is the center of our psychic life. That means Copernician revolution in a small definition.”
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 11:57): "Allocentric means that this center of our psychic life, the unconscious, comes from the other, the kernel of the unconscious."

4. The "Foreign Body" and the Nature of the Unconscious

• 13:10–14:49
  • Drawn from Freud, the notion of the "foreign inner body" refers to psychic elements that remain active, never fully past, as a kernel of the unconscious.

5. Enclaved vs. Repressed Unconscious

• 14:49–17:59
  • Repressed Unconscious: Formed by what is partially translated and then repressed.
  • Enclaved Unconscious: Formed by aspects that cannot be translated at all—linked to severe psychopathology (psychosis, borderline conditions).
  • The difference between neurosis and psychosis, per Laplanche, is quantitative: psychosis involves a larger enclaved unconscious.
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 14:49): "There are messages you can’t understand at all... These messages are more or less enclaved. ...Laplanche links this enclaved unconscious with the heavy pathologies."

6. Limits of Decoding the Unconscious

• 19:01–21:08
  • It is impossible to fully translate or empty out the enclaved unconscious; mystery and blockage remain fundamental to human psychic life.
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 19:22): "The answer is simple. No, this is not possible. ...We have to accept that there is always a repressed unconscious, and there is always an enclaved unconscious."

7. The Laplanchean Unconscious and the Lacanian "Real"

• 21:08–23:05
  • The enclaved unconscious resembles the Lacanian ‘real’ in its resistance to symbolization and in moments where internal and external reality collapse (e.g., hallucinations).
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 21:26): "In the case of the enclaved unconscious, this work (of symbolization) is more or less impossible. And here I see the link with the real of Lacan."

8. Mythosymbolism & Psychoanalysis as (Non-)Myth

• 23:51–28:45
  • Laplanche critiques the use of myth as explanatory; instead, mythosymbolism is a tool for the partial translation of enigmatic messages, but psychoanalysis itself is not a myth—it must remain scientific.
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 23:51): "He thinks that we have to analyze the myth and not to take the myth as an answer to something."
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 27:51): "He really is eager to show that psychoanalysis is scientific. For him, it’s very, very important."

9. General Theory of Seduction vs. Oedipus Complex

• 28:45–33:42
  • Laplanche critiques the Oedipal narrative’s child-centric, almost Ptolemaic focus. His "general theory of seduction" makes the Other (adult) primary and describes the "fundamental anthropological situation": asymmetry between adult and child, with the unconscious coming from the adult Other.
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 32:52): "There is an asymmetry between children and adults because the adult has an unconscious and the child doesn’t. ...This is the alternative theory in comparison with Oedipus."

10. Clinical Practice & Technical Implications

• 33:42–39:37
  • Laplanche didn’t elaborate much on clinical technique in his writing, but Hock argues that the analyst’s own enigmatic stance/behavior reactivates the childhood seduction situation.
  • Transference is not merely projected from the patient; it is provoked by the analyst.
  • High-frequency sessions and couch/face-to-face issues are less central than in Kleinian technique.
  • Interpretation should focus less on constructing new narratives and more on "detranslating"—undoing the patient’s received or personal myths.
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 36:10): "The psychoanalyst provokes the transference. ...It’s a provocation coming from the psychoanalyst. This is really a revolution for psychoanalysts."
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 38:10): "Translation—it’s the task of the patient. Detranslation is the task of the analyst."

11. Countertransference and the Role of the Analyst

• 40:36–43:58
  • Laplanche is skeptical of using "countertransference" liberally; he urges reticence regarding the analyst’s feelings/fantasies and adherence to free association and free-floating attention.
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 41:18): "He’s not a fan of countertransference. ...Our work is first of all hearing at what the other is saying."

12. Transference: Filled vs. Hollowed Out, and the "Top" (Baquet)

• 44:32–48:52
  • Distinguishing between content-filled transference (e.g., "you treat me like your father") and hollowed-out transference (the analyst as enigmatic other).
  • The "top/baquet" refers to a psychic field in dreams where self-preservation is excluded—a space central to the unconscious.
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 45:06): "A filled up transference means that you give a content to what the patient is saying... The hollowed out transference means that you identify yourself as... the person who gives enigmatic messages..."

13. Kleinian, Laplanchian, and Lacanian Clinical Influences

• 49:19–53:05
  • Hock contrasts Kleinian primacy of projection (sadism) with Laplanche’s primacy of introjection (masochism).
  • British/American intersubjectivist trends are contrasted with the more text- and translation-focused French (Laplanchian) psychoanalysis.
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 49:19): "In Laplange, you have a primacy of the introjection over the projection... This is my formula for the difference."

14. Reading and Translating Laplanche

• 53:05–57:24
  • Hock discusses his intellectual development from Lacan to Laplanche and Klein, and his method of reading Laplanche alongside Freud and other theorists. He emphasizes attention to theoretical inconsistencies as sources of new thought.

15. Laplanche vs. Lacan and Klein

• 58:18–63:37
  • Laplanche underwent analysis with Lacan but later diverged. While both stress the "Other," Laplanche innovates with the seduction theory. He values Klein’s insight into the unconscious as abyssal but rejects her technical orthodoxy.
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 60:21): "Lacan said to everybody, it means you follow me or you kick me. And Laplanche kicks Lacan with others."
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 62:32): "He said, well, I’m on your side, you know, you are a witch. I follow you in this side. But... the technical side of Klein, he didn’t appreciate too much."

16. The Future of Laplanche Studies

• 63:37–68:00
  • Hock calls for more clinical engagement and exchange among Laplanchian analysts, as Laplanche’s own clinical practices are under-documented.
  • Future work should treat Laplanche’s writings with the same unfinalized, critical approach Laplanche took with Freud, focusing on theoretical problems and inconsistencies.
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 64:01): "Perhaps the most important question is the clinical work with Laplanche."
• Quote (Dr. Hock, 65:36): "With Laplanche, we have to find a similar axis (as he did with Freud)... Look at the problems. Look at the incoherences and treat his work as he treated the work of Freud—not in a total way, but... being open to ideas which are not in the center of his own theory."

Notable Quotes

• On Laplanche’s project:
  “The primacy of the other means that what comes into the unconscious comes first from the other by the enigmatic messages of the other.” (Dr. Hock, 04:25)

• On myth in psychoanalysis:
  “He thinks that we have to analyze the myth and not to take the myth as an answer to something.” (Dr. Hock, 23:51)

• On translation and analysis:
  "Translation—it’s the task of the patient. Detranslation is the task of the analyst." (Dr. Hock, 38:10)

• On what remains untranslatable:
  “We have to accept that there is always a repressed unconscious, and there is always an enclaved unconscious.” (Dr. Hock, 19:22)

• On comparing Klein and Laplanche:
  "In Laplange, you have a primacy of the introjection over the projection. In the Kleinian discourse, you have the primacy of the projection over the interjection. This is my formula for the difference." (Dr. Hock, 49:19)

• On how to read Laplanche now:
  "Look at the problems. Look at the incoherences and treat his work as he treated the work of Freud..." (Dr. Hock, 65:36)

Timestamps for Key Sections

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|-------------| | Laplanche’s Foundations: Primacy of Other/Sexual | 04:00–06:33 | | Enigmatic Messages Explained | 06:49–09:27 | | Copernican Revolution in Psychoanalysis | 09:27–12:51 | | Foreign Inner Body & Unconscious | 13:10–14:49 | | Enclaved vs Repressed Unconscious | 14:49–17:59 | | Possibility of Decoding All Messages | 19:01–21:08 | | Overlap with Lacan’s Real | 21:08–23:05 | | Mythosymbolism and Scientificity | 23:51–28:45 | | General Seduction Theory vs. Oedipus | 28:45–33:42 | | Clinical Technique and Transference | 33:42–39:37 | | Countertransference and Analyst’s Role | 40:36–43:58 | | Transference: Filled, Hollowed, and "Top" | 44:32–48:52 | | Klein, Laplanche, and Lacanian Influence | 49:19–53:05 | | Reading, Translating, and Comparing Theorists | 53:05–57:24 | | Laplanche’s Relationship to Lacan & Klein | 58:18–63:37 | | The Future of Laplanchian Psychoanalysis | 63:37–68:00 |

Memorable Moments

• Hock’s clear structural distinction between Laplanche’s and Klein’s clinical positions (“primacy of introjection over projection”) (49:19).
• Reflection on the limits of psychoanalytic translation and the necessity of mystery in the unconscious (19:22).
• Lively discussion about the hazards of making Laplanche into a "sun" around which the field merely orbits (65:02–68:00).

Conclusion

This rich episode offers a comprehensive overview of Laplanche’s importance and continuing relevance for psychoanalysis, both as a reinterpreter of Freud and as a theorist of the enigmatic, the other, and the always partly untranslatable unconscious. Dr. Hock urges ongoing engagement with Laplanche’s work in the clinical field while maintaining the same critical spirit Laplanche applied to Freud, emphasizing the value of translation, reading, and careful attention to theoretical complexity.

"Look at the problems. Look at the incoherences and treat his work as he treated the work of Freud..." (Dr. Hock, 65:36)