Podcast Summary: Recall This Book – "Ben Fountain in Dark Times" (New Books Network, Ep. 158)

Date: October 16, 2025
Host: John Plotz (with Elizabeth Ferry)
Guest: Ben Fountain (novelist and essayist)

Episode Overview

This episode is part of the "Books in Dark Times" series, inspired by Hannah Arendt's Men in Dark Times. The series asks writers and scholars to discuss the books that offer them guidance, sustenance, and encouragement during challenging historical moments. Acclaimed novelist and essayist Ben Fountain joins to reflect on the literature that sustains him, the ongoing American crisis, and the relationship between literature, history, and identity.

Main Discussion Themes

1. Books That Sustain Us in "Dark Times"

• The hosts frame literature as a source of "illumination" even in difficult periods, echoing Arendt's claim that hope and light come from the uncertain but persistent glow of human creativity and experience. (03:16)
• The core question: Do we read to escape the present world, or to better recognize and process it? Both, the hosts and Fountain suggest, can be true at once.

2. Ben Fountain’s Literary Formation

• Fountain reflects on his education in American and British literature and his decision to focus his writing instincts primarily within the American canon.
  • “I was a literature major at University of North Carolina... But when I follow my head and my heart, it usually focuses on [American writers].” (05:31–06:48)
• Emphasizes the formative role of taking classes outside his comfort zone and the influence of major poets and novelists like Alan Tate and Ezra Pound.

3. On American Writers and Understanding America

• Fountain recalls the period around the 2004 election, a time when he consciously sought out writers who "went straight at the problem, the mystery of what is America." (09:35)
• Key authors named: Joan Didion, Marilynne Robinson, Norman Mailer, James Baldwin, Gary Wills.
  • “Joan Didion was very high on that list.” (10:20)
• Discussion of Didion’s The Last Thing He Wanted as a masterful exploration of American involvement in Central America and as a model for tone, mood, and character interiority. (08:05–09:11)

Memorable Quote:

“I came to the realization I don’t understand my country. I started consciously seeking out writers who had gone straight at the problem, the mystery of what is America.”
— Ben Fountain (09:11)

4. Identity, Society, and the Search for Truth

• The conversation pivots between fiction and nonfiction as ways to grapple with American identity and reality. Marilynne Robinson’s essays and fiction are praised for their nourishment and insight into questions of staying vs. leaving, belonging, and alienation.
  • “Housekeeping still strikes me... There's something there about those who stay and those who go.” — John Plotz (11:23)
• Zadie Smith and Kara Walker are highlighted as contemporary figures whose work confronts and unsettles American audiences about the country's past and present.
  • “Kara Walker... She scares the living piss out of me. I mean, appropriately.” (12:38)

5. Facing Reality: Hannah Arendt, Camus, and Baldwin

• Discussion of Arendt’s pessimism and hope—a belief in the eventual revelation of truth despite sustained deception.
  • “One of the reasons I really like Arendt is her insistence that you cannot be sure that the truth will come out at any given moment... but you can know that it will happen.” — John Plotz (13:02)
• Both Arendt and James Baldwin exemplify writers who possess an "absolute clarity" and moral vision:
  • “They do not look away. They look with absolute clarity at the human condition, but there’s this human core to them.” — Ben Fountain (13:52)

6. James Baldwin’s Lasting Relevance

• Baldwin’s fiction, particularly If Beale Street Could Talk, is discussed as having had a deeply formative impact. Fountain recalls reading it as a young man and struggling to believe the injustice it describes—only to realize over decades and with new evidence that Baldwin was describing harsh realities.
  • “I was a white kid in the suburbs, you know, in 1977, 78. And I'm reading it and it seemed like such an extreme situation... does this kind of thing really happen?” — Ben Fountain (16:02–17:19)
  • Ongoing relevance is underscored by contemporary events and video evidence; “I carried that book around in my head for 40 years.” (17:56)

7. Writing in the Current Moment

• Fountain shares that his current project is a novel set during the 1991–94 Haitian coup and embargo, paralleling themes of societal lockdown and individual survival with those of the present day.
  • “Societies that are on lockdown to one extent or another... just how people survive and keep themselves together in those situations.” — Ben Fountain (19:13–20:38)
• The hosts discuss other writers’ responses to this era, including online projects for pandemic-era writing and short fiction inspired by current headlines.

Notable Quotes and Key Timestamps

• On literature’s staying power:

  “To the extent that you do disappear into the story, eventually you come out. But if the experience ... has been powerful enough, it’s going to stay with you.”
  — Ben Fountain (04:46)

• On American writers and understanding the country:

  “I started consciously seeking out writers who had gone straight at the problem, the mystery of what is America.”
  — Ben Fountain (09:35)

• On Kara Walker and American history:

  “She scares the living piss out of me... there are huge chunks of American history that should terrify us.”
  — Ben Fountain (12:38–12:50)

• On Hannah Arendt’s vision:

  “One of the reasons I really like Arendt is her insistence that you cannot be sure that the truth will come out at any given moment... but you can know that it will happen.”
  — John Plotz (13:02)

• On Baldwin and recognition of injustice:

  “I carried that book around in my head for 40 years.”
  — Ben Fountain (17:56)

Key Segments & Timestamps

• Opening & Framing the Series: 03:16–04:46
• Ben Fountain's Literary Influences: 05:09–07:57
• On Joan Didion, American Identity, and Writing: 07:57–10:22
• Discussion of Marilynne Robinson and Zadie Smith: 10:22–12:05
• Kara Walker and American Trauma: 12:05–13:02
• Arendt, Camus, Baldwin—Truth and Clarity: 13:02–14:52
• Baldwin’s Enduring Impact: 14:52–18:21
• Fountain on Writing During Crisis (Haiti novel): 19:06–20:44
• The Importance of Processing the Present: 20:55–22:14

Concluding Remarks

This episode is a rich meditation on the role of literature and writers in times of crisis. Ben Fountain’s reflections, combined with those of the hosts, offer listeners a reading list for understanding both American history and the ongoing struggle for justice, clarity, and hope. The conversation is fueled by admiration for writers who don't “look away,” and it situates contemporary writing within a long tradition of bearing witness and making sense of difficult times.