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- [00:01]
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- [01:21]
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- [01:26]
Amir Hasan
Welcome to the New Books Network.
- [01:31]
Holly Ghattary
Hello everyone and welcome to nbn. I'm your host Holly Ghattary and I am excited to be joined today by Amir Hasan to talk about his marvelous and debut novel under the Full and Crescent Moon which was published this year 2025 by Dundurian Press. Amir was born into a family of strong women in Pakistan, grew up in Saudi Arabia and moved to Canada when he was 15 years old. Under the Full and Crescent Moon is his debut novel. He lives in Milton, Ontario and he is joining me now. Hello Amir.
- [02:06]
Amir Hasan
Hi, how are you?
- [02:08]
Holly Ghattary
Oh, it's so good to have you here to talk about this remarkable book. And I mean there's dozens of reasons that I loved it, but I really love the matriarchy, the Islamic matriarchy. I love how expectations what someone and this someone is just as ambivalent, not ambivalent, this ambiguous someone in a western world might think of for an Islamic narrative. And the expectations or stereotypes people might expect are simply not in this novel. And as someone who grew up Islamic, I really enjoyed that and I also just enjoyed the very soft lyrical writing. So I have so many questions to ask you, but I'm going to start by telling our audience a little bit more about your book. After his long time scribe retires, Saded's father, the city's leading jurist offers his introverted daughter the opportunity to take on the role of his assistant in accepting. Khadida is thrust into her community, the medieval hilltop city of Medina Tul Agam, where she as a motherless young woman has spent little time. Led by Aman Fatima and guided by the circle of mothers, it is a matriarchy, the only one in the empire. Though forced to set aside her quiet life among books and parchments of her family home, Khadida thrives, finding her power and place in the world with the support of her new friends and strong female mentors. Yet Khadidah's idyllic new life is shattered when fanatical forces weaponized Shira law to threaten the very fabric of the society. Using only the power of her parchment and quill, Khadida must win the support of the people and write fatwas to fight against injustice, or the peace and prosperity of her city will be nothing more than a footnote in the annals of histories. I actually just got chills reading that and I've read the whole book and I got like, I have a lot of rage as a woman in this world and this book scratched so many itches for me on that front. But it's actually, as I said, a very quiet book. So, Anir, my first question for you is, tell us about where this book came from.
- [04:22]
Amir Hasan
Yeah, yeah, I mean, a lot of it. Thank you. Thank you for one of the interesting things about and I've been very lucky to find a publisher and have the book published. It was surprising how much writing I had to do after I got the publisher because the publisher said, hey, you have to write a bio for yourself and you have to write a synopsis and you have to write a back cover. So yeah, I mean, I thank you for saying that the back cover and all those sorts of things are good as well. But yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it comes from my bio. I grew up in a family of, like I said, strong women. My mother, my sister, my aunts, my cousins are all varying degrees of pious. But their piety and how involved they are in Islam has almost no correlation to how successful they are and how accomplished they are. And that is something that I grew up with and was very comfortable with. And it's not something that's just my family, but you know, my neighbors, the people I went to high school with, and also the family that I married into, my wife, my in laws, that's just a fact of life for me. But I'm also very aware that that isn't something that is seen by Western society in a lot of situations. Like, all of my people, all of my, all of the people in my community are just kind of stereotyped in one way or the other. And the women are either thought of as brainwashed or just have no agency and need to be saved by someone. So that's kind of where a lot of this came from, honestly.
- [06:00]
Holly Ghattary
Yeah, I love that answer. I mean, as someone who grew up at Islamic, again, I, I, I. There are certain things about the culture in which I grew up that made me feel powerless, but the religion didn't. And I really want to make a distinction there because I grew up in a bicultural home as well. So there was a whole bunch of different factors at play in that situation that were. There's interplay with religion, but not necessarily directly linked to it. So this was a really interesting read for me and I really actually, if I, I want to dwell for a moment, if we may, on piousness in this novel. So as I said, this is a very quiet, a very soft novel. If anyone is looking for, like a racy read, this is, this is, this isn't it. This book is not it for you, but it is. It will offer you something else. One thing I find very interesting about the idea of piousness and novels is when it can be read. Sometimes when you read a certain novel and you're reading about a religion or a way of living that it almost seems stale. In this book, Khlait's life is so rich. It is Technicolor.
- [07:16]
Amir Hasan
It is.
- [07:16]
Holly Ghattary
And I was wondering if you could talk about the idea of bringing dimension and warmth and life to what can be conceived as a very flat and kind of vanilla. I love vanilla. So that's not a good thing, but a rather kind of basic idea of piousness. I'd love for you to talk about that.
- [07:35]
Amir Hasan
Yeah, A lot of it comes from, I think, being a historical novel and being set. This is set about like the 8th 9th century CE, so a little while ago. And my conception of that time is that everybody was pious and it was just a background fact of life. Now everybody had like different ideas and every family is different and every individual is different. And I think injecting that idea into it as well, I think helps bring that depth because Khatija has her mentors, she has her father, she has the people in her community that she's introduced to throughout the book. And they all have different ideas. They all have different, especially when the antagonist is introduced, that he has Very different ideas about the faith than Khadija does. And I think just having all of the different characters and having all of the different families just be comfortable in their differences and not debating them all the time, only debating them when they need to. And that certainly happens a lot. But I think that that really helps. Setting it at a time where everybody's religious and then also just trying to get across that. Like you said, your family had a certain approach to things, and my family had a certain approach to things, and then every family does and every set of individuals does. And I really tried to put that into the novel, where even Khadija and her father have fairly significant disagreements, and that becomes very important.
- [09:08]
Holly Ghattary
I love that you said that. I remember having a conversation with a family member once after my first book was published, and I said something about being raised Muslim, and this family member said to me, oh, what we. And what you were raised at least, was not Muslim. And I just. And I said, really? And I asked why they thought this, and they explained that what their idea of Muslim wisdom. And I was just like, well, to me, this was like this. This is. When I was a child, I was told I was being raised, and it really. I found it really delegitimizing to be told that this idea I'd had of my whole life was nothing more than the whims of the people who were like, my parents, who were saying, this is what Islam was.
- [09:49]
Amir Hasan
Yeah. And I think that's the other part where I also grew up in Saudi Arabia. So in Saudi Arabia, especially in the early. In the 80s and the early 90s, because, you know, I'm. I'm pretty old now, but that's when I grew up. And all of the stereotypes that you have about how Islam treats women were kind of true for that era of Saudi Arabia. And so I grew up with a family that treated Islam very differently than the community that I grew up in. And so I was very comfortable with the idea that, like, everybody's slightly different in their view. And, like, you know, my sister, she's. She's very close to my age. She grew up in the same places that I did. And we have plenty of disagreements, too. Right. So how can we not expect, like, more than a billion people to have, like, a lot of differences?
- [10:33]
Holly Ghattary
Yeah, there's a really interesting. And for me, I was very invested in the scene in the book where they're at the circle of mothers, and Khadijah is brought into a debate about whether you should cover your hair or not. And she has A really diplomatic and fascinating response. And, you know, you can see her kind of trying to struggle with being diplomatic, too, which I loved, because that's something I struggle with.
- [11:01]
Amir Hasan
Yeah, that's one of the things. That's one of the things. Like, you know, like, one of the. One of the things that I enjoyed about writing the book is when the characters develop their own personality a little bit. And, like, if you look at the plot, then Khadija is a very. You know, she has a certain arc. She's introverted and she's bookish, and then she has to grow up and fight for her rights, essentially, or fight for her community a little bit. And if you just take a look at that, then that can be, like, a certain kind of a character. But as she. She pushed back when I was writing the novel, and she's a. She's. She's a little bit of a. She's a little bit of a. She's a little bit of a jerk at times, and she has to, like, rein herself in from being too arrogant and imperious at times. So. And I. I think that was certainly a place where that happened, where she has. She kind of caught herself at a certain point saying, well, I'm gonna. I'm gonna destroy this person in the debate, but do I really want to at this point? And this is, like, she managed to, like, hold herself back from what she really wanted to do, which was, like, dunk on this person for her. And, like, really, because she had the ability to. She could have like, ended the debate really, really harshly at that point.
- [12:11]
Holly Ghattary
And, I mean, she did what I think so many people in this world could benefit from doing, which is just acting in a way which reflects that you have thought about how the other person might feel. And coming from a place where even as you're talking, you're listening, if that makes any sense. Like, you're thinking about the other person's perspective and also understanding that lecturing someone will never get anyone to actually listen to you, ever. And I. I think. I mean, I was kind of upset she reigned it back in because, again, I have a lot of rage. So sometimes I just. I want to see my characters enact the kind of brutal vengeance that I am. Well, actually, she.
- [12:52]
Amir Hasan
I mean, like, it's a little bit of foreshadowing there for. But the other thing, too, I think, in terms of that is, like, one of the things in the book is, like, you know, like I said, like. Like, we're talking about, like, covering and hijab and all of These things, they're kind of hot button topics. So even though it is a quiet book, I kind of like went after a lot of things that there are a lot of debates on in the book, just by the nature of the characters and the plot and how things develop. And one of the things in there actually about it is one thing, is that the debate I kind of structured in like, the opposite way that you would expect, because in this society, the conservative people are the ones who don't want to cover the hair because that's just not what they're used to. And so this is a society in which the practice of hijab and the practice of covering your hair is being introduced. And I just kind of had the idea, like, well, if that was happening, then what would the conservative older people think? And the idea that came to me was like, the conservative older people wouldn't like it because they didn't do it when they were younger. So why are all these kids doing it now? And that's the way that the debate goes in an unexpected way too.
- [14:05]
Holly Ghattary
These young kids with their flashy hijabs. And you know what vanity is this vain? Is this invoking vanity. It was a really interesting way to spin the. The book and. Or the book that, that argument. And I for one, very much enjoyed it. I was having. I said head covering because I was having trouble thinking of what the word was. And all that came to mind was chedor, which is like an Iranian thing. I was like, that's not what it was called in the book. What was it? And I was like, head covering. That's all I can think of.
- [14:33]
Amir Hasan
Yeah, yeah. And in other words, we call it dupatta.
- [14:36]
Holly Ghattary
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I was like, that's not what. That's not what it was called in the book. What am I thinking? Um, yeah. And another thing that. This is like, really embarrassing for me to admit, but I'm not above embarrassing myself for the. The greater good and for general entertainment and to make a point, which is that when I was reading the book, within the first few pages, a lot of this novel, like I said, it's a quiet novel, but there's a lot of subversion in it and a lot of like, exciting, thrilling subversion. And for me, it first happened when we were being introduced to the Annam, and I was like, it took me a minute to understand the MM was female. I was expecting a man. Even though I know this book was about matriarchal society, it was like, what. What that.
- [15:22]
Amir Hasan
And that was. I think that was the first thing I wrote and that's like the, that's in the prologue. And one of the ways that I prepared myself to write was because, you know, I, this is my first novel and all of those sorts of things and this was the story that I really wanted to tell. So I wrote a lot of short stories and to kind of prepare myself to actually write something longer. And in a short story, you need a twist at the end for the story to be satisfying. And so this whole prologue kind of came about that. And maybe that's the part I'll read, but it was a way of like just setting up the expectation of like, yeah, you know, the, the religious leader, the iman, the imam is always going to be a male. And so I wrote the whole scene from a very gender, gender neutral perspective until the last few paragraphs. And then I was like, yep, yep, this is the setting that I wanted to introduce people to.
- [16:17]
Holly Ghattary
So good, so good, so good.
- [16:20]
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- [16:29]
Amir Hasan
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- [16:31]
Holly Ghattary
Just so many good brands. I get an extra 5% off with my Nordstrom credit card Total queen treatment.
- [16:37]
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- [16:48]
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- [17:12]
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- [17:45]
Holly Ghattary
Yeah, it was a very electric reveal for me that I it's very clearly said like there is nothing ambiguous about the reveal but I still had to read it a few times. I was like woo. I like this like it. I'm like I was invested before but now I'm definitely invested. So you mentioned reading, so I would love for you to read to us from the book. The beginning would be great, but wherever you'd like.
- [18:06]
Amir Hasan
Yeah, I think. I think since it's fresh in the memory, I think. I think we'll do the prologue, so I think I'll start now. The setting sun revealed stars on what could possibly be the last evening of Ramadan, the month of fasting in which the faithful refrain from eating or drinking from sunrise to sunset. It had not been a particularly harsh 29 days this year, as the month had fallen between the long and thirsty days of summer and the shorter and far more pleasant winter fasts. Still, even the most pious of the small city hoped the sighting of a new moon would end the month and bring the festivities of Eid al Fidr one day early. It was with this hope that many came out into the pleasant evening air to gather around the Grand Mosque, which had once been a palace, to watch the Imam peer up into the sky in search of the new moon. With its white marble walls that glowed under the last rays of the setting sun, the mosque was a majestic building with domes and minarets that dwarfed every other structure in the city. The massive central structure had a door as tall as five fully grown men standing on each other's shoulders and was carved with intricate geometric shapes. The two wings of the mosque curved outward at the back corners and the ends of the wing tapered gracefully into a large wall overlooking a huge courtyard open to the clear evening sky. The conditions were excellent for a moon sighting. The sky was completely free of clouds and the Imam, standing on the central tower, could see all the way to the horizon. With perfect visibility, it was a spectacular sight as the soft tones of twilight encompassed the entirety of the city of Medina Tulagam and spread down the shallow eastern side of the hill to the plains. The long central road of the empire known as the Trader's Way, provided a natural boundary for the city as it wound its way across the slowly rolling expanse for miles beyond. This dark mountains rich in mineral wealth, which had once provided the economic sustenance of the city, lay silent and still, as if they too wanted to hear what the Imam would proclaim. On a balcony halfway up the mosque, the hook nosed and sharp eyed captain of the guard leaned on the railing and peered at the crowd more than a thousand strong to ensure his guardsmen were standing to attention. His gaze swept across the festive atmosphere of the city's laborers. Crafters, merchants, scribes, traders and farmers mingled easily with one another and their families around the circular reflecting pool at the center of the courtyard. He allowed himself a small measure of satisfaction. There was no hint of conflict or discord at ground level. The attention of the people in the crowd was split between the spire where the imam was gazing up at the sky and the many small stalls that have sprung up at the edges of the courtyard. Some of the more entrepreneurial of the city's merchants had decided there was no reason not to take advantage of the flurry of activity on the first night of Eid. They brought their wares up the hill in wagons or on their backs and set up small booths in hopes of tempting the good people of the city into starting the festivities just a little bit early. A multitude of lanterns decorated in angular shapes were filled with scented oil and lit, easing the hearts of the people even as they loosened the strings of their coin purses. There were carts full of trinkets and toys doing brisk trade. Blankets arranged neatly on the ground displayed jewelry and bundles of decorated cot that were being scrutinized by potential customers as gifts for family and friends. Some of the older men and women reclined on cushions spread in a circle on sturdy rugs while a shopkeeper bustled about taking orders for honey drinks and date pastries. Business was good for the snacks despite competition from the mosque volunteers handing out water and dates for free. Even if Eid did not come this night, there was still the breaking of the fast to celebrate. When the sun finally set on the tower, the imam could feel the crowd's restlessness below. It would be disappointing to let them down, but the rules of the lunar Islamic calendar were clear. The month and its fast could only end on the 29th day. With the sighting of the new moon, the time for the evening prayer was fast approaching, and with a final glance the imam decided the people would have to be informed that God in all his wisdom, had decided that Ramadan would run for its full 30 days this year. Just as Iman's gaze turned down to deliver the disappointing news to the waiting throng, a flash of silver caught her eye. It was the youngest new moon she had ever seen, barely a sliver of a white curve set against the deepening blue of the evening sky. She leaned a little dangerous, dangerously over the parapet to confirm what she was seeing, and then nodded as a smile spread across her weathered face. Holding her arm out with palms upturned, she murmured a quick prayer of thanks. In a clear, strong voice, Imam Fatima called out the news. Praise be to God. The new moon is sighted. The holy month of Ramadan had ended. May he accept all your fasts and prayers of the past month as we give thanks for the joyful days of E. The crowd erupted in delight. The laughter and shouts of the people rose up past the stoic man on the balcony, past the smiling woman on the spire, and higher to the heavens as the city of Akram celebrated. Men slapped each other on the back and embraced, women hugged, and children were picked up and tossed in the air with joy. Even the guardsmen relaxed and smiled as the outpouring of emotion flooded over them all. Older children took off, running through the courtyard gates and down the hill to carry the good news home. Windows and doors were thrown open as people came out to confirm, and the jubilation rippled out into a widening circle until it covered the entire city. Praise be to God. The holy month of Ramadan had ended and Eve had come.
- [22:55]
Holly Ghattary
Thank you so much for that. That's what I was talking about with that opening. To get her is the first time that the reader is really clued in that the Imam is not a man. Which is such a strange assumption for me to have because I knew what this book was about, but it still was stuck in my head, which, you know, I thought, oh, this is. This is going to be a book that I'm going to go into, and it's going to subvert other Western people's ideas, but not mine. It still managed to subvert mine anyway, so I enjoyed that. My question for you is something I kind of debated asking, because not every book, and certainly not this book, have to have strong romantic lines in it, or any romantic through line or story. And this book does. But I think you've done it in a really interesting way where it is not even remotely the main plot point, but it's in there. And I was wondering if you could speak about creating that very delicate romance in this book.
- [23:59]
Amir Hasan
Yeah, so really, like, there's a lot of, like, ideas in the book about Islamic matriarchies and, like, even, like, delving into, like, Islamic law and making those two things compatible, which was kind of like a. A big part of the. The hook of the book. But for me, it's always been the important thing has been the story of a young woman growing up, which was, you know, not being a woman was also a big challenge. But as she was growing up in many different ways, like in the important ways that the plot demands for me, it became important that she would grow up in a lot of different ways and she would awaken as an adult in not just the one way that the plot demands, but in every way. And that meant coming into the community from being like an introvert to still being an introvert, but one who was connected to their community where they weren't before. And a part of that growing up is also, you know, having romantic interests. And so that is where that idea came from that I wanted there to be multiple ways that she grew up. And growing up and having, developing romantic interests and struggling with that a little bit is a part of growing up. So, and then when I got that idea, then I got more ideas about like, how that wouldn't be as simple and straightforward as that for her. Because it could have been very simple and straightforward. It could have been like, yeah, especially in this society is also one that has a tradition of arranged marriage which is very common until the modern era. And so I put that in there as well. But one of the things that I did in the book was I kept on having to create the society in a way that Khadija, the main character, would have modern, relatable problems. And so instead of have being like, it could be a very straightforward thing, like, you know, okay, she gets set up and then she gets married. I wanted it to be a little bit more interesting than that. And it kept on, it kept on happening. So it's a subplot of the novel.
- [26:22]
Holly Ghattary
It definitely is. And I was like, oh, my father would have been so happy because it's a doctor, right? Like doctor, lawyer, engineer. Those are the only options that were permissible. I let my dad down, that's for sure.
- [26:34]
Amir Hasan
Oh, well, I mean, it's not just a doctor, right? I mean.
- [26:37]
Holly Ghattary
Yep, yeah, it is. There's, there's a very dreamy, very dreamy love interest. I'll say it, history. I, I, I enjoy that. My other questions for you, my last two before my usual final question. So technically there's three is about, it's about, I think I'm, Please help me. If I'm saying her name is Sada. Sada. Yeah, Sada. Okay. She is a semi mother figure to Khadijah and I really enjoyed the part that really illuminated how clueless the father is about what goes on with women. And you know, she goes off to the, the circle of mothers and she is dressed terribly, you know, she's supposed to have taken any amount of care and with what she's wearing. And Khadijah just is something that she's never concerned herself with before. So, you know, Sado runs after her and the next time she goes back she is dressed more Appropriately. But it was really interesting. I say appropriately. I just. When I say with care, it's not like she is disheveled. It's just that this is a time that, you know, women often dress in something a little bit more ornate. It's not like, you know, going out clubbing. I'm not talking about that.
- [27:54]
Amir Hasan
But, well, even clubbing, right? I mean, there's like a certain expectation that you're just. You don't show up in your pajamas. Right. Kind of a thing. And, you know, it's that whole thing. And that was kind of like. That's me observing weddings and, like, weddings in South Asian culture. And I'm not sure other cultures as well, but South Asian culture, weddings are where people kind of allow themselves to let loose and it becomes a very important thing to dress up. And the circle of mothers has a monthly meeting. And the circle of mothers is actually the. The political power in the city. That's where the matriarchy kind of exhibits itself. And they have a monthly meeting where all of the women of the city, and especially the mothers, is how they kind of like, test for maturity and say, okay, well, now you're a voting age, essentially. That is the monthly meeting where the women get together and decide on what the city will put its resources towards. And it's a big deal. And Khadijah, not having had a mother growing up, just has no idea. And her father has absolutely no idea either. And though. No, that causes her, like, a lot of issues initially, I think there's, like, that. That scene was hard for me to write because, you know, feeling out of place as an introvert, the first time you go to some place new is that's. That's a lot of. That's a lot of me in there.
- [29:19]
Holly Ghattary
Yeah. I also love that when you put a character like Khadija in that situation in her very, like, plain white robe and, like, I can't help it. The first thing I thought was, how does she keep that claim as I'm such a slob, that I was like, she must live a pretty pristine life because you put me in white and two minutes later I have Nutella on myself or something. But I was. I was thinking about that and I thought it was such an interesting way to show by putting Khadijah in that situation wearing what she was wearing. It was an interesting way to reveal the characters of the people around her, the way they reacted to someone clearly having no idea what she's doing. And there were the people who revealed themselves to be petty and Mean spirited, bordering on cruel and insecure. That's what it comes down to. Insecurity about themselves. And then it revealed who would end up being Khadijah's friends. The people who stepped in and tried to make her feel more comfortable about what she, the position she was in, while also guiding her to be, to perhaps be more prepared in the future and helping her become more prepared in the future. Like, come to my shop. We'll, we'll set you up, we'll hook you up with some new duds, like that kind of vibe, which is something Khadijah is not really interested in doing.
- [30:40]
Amir Hasan
Well, I mean, and that's the other thing too, right? And this is where like the characters kind of kept on showing themselves. Like, you know, Saada is a character who showed up because she needed to show up and she, she wasn't. She's not necessary to the plot, but she's incredibly important to Khadija and to the story, despite not being like a plot important character. And also the two best friends that she makes is also something that I'm very proud of, that they have their own personalities. Because Khadija actually, from my perspective, kind of like strikes a middle ground between Aisha and Amal, who are her friends, where Amal really seriously doesn't care about any of this. And she does the bare minimum. Even she knows what she's supposed to do. So she does the absolute bare minimum. While Aisha is the flashy one who knows all of the trends and is the one who helps Khadija with this particular problem that she kind of stumbled herself into.
- [31:35]
Holly Ghattary
Yeah. Well, this leads perfectly to my next question, which is about writing women. So until you said, and I mean, it's a question I wrote down, but I kind of glazed over it until you said, you know, that, you know, the very obvious point of you not being a woman, which I know, I, I was going to just skip the question, I thought, because I read the book and I didn't feel like I needed you to answer the question. But understanding that our listeners may not have read this book yet, I do want to ask you for their benefit more than mine is. It's very justified to me and I feel like you've done a really great job representing women. But like, what considerations did you have writing women? Because like, not every man can or arguably should write women.
- [32:18]
Amir Hasan
I mean, like, it. I gave myself a lot of difficult challenges with the book and this is one of the biggest ones. And it was something that was incredibly worried about, but I think A little of this is kind of like a instinctual sense that I had that I think George R.R. martin, you know, the. Of the, you know, Game of Thrones fame, just kind of said. And he's. He. He articulated it perfectly. He was like, you just write them as human beings, right? So it's something that I think. I think some. In some ways the gender differences are played up too much. In some ways, they're not played up enough. And for me, since this was a Muslim matriarchy, it wouldn't have made much sense to tell it from a man's perspective. And so it had to be a woman. And so I said, okay, well, I'm going to try my best. And I just got as much feedback as I could, like after I got a little way in and, you know, I kind of set the first five chapters or the first six chapters. I don't remember anymore. When I wrote the first six chapters is when I started showing it to people. Right? And the feedback of my wife, the feedback of my female friends was what I solicited. And I said, basically, it's like one of the direct questions that I had for them was like, I appreciate that you're being nice to me maybe, and you want to be encouraging or something, but I really need to know if this is something that is coming across as authenticity. And thankfully, thankfully, you know, it's not just them, but like, you know, my. The publisher, the acquiring editor, Julia Kim, she. I had the same question. Like, I constantly kept on asking that question. I constantly kept on getting the feedback that, no, no, it's fine. It's authentic. You're not overplaying anything or underplaying anything.
- [34:11]
Holly Ghattary
Shout out to Julia Kim, who is an incredible person in this wild and bananas landscape of Canadian literature, who is just this shining beacon of such a. Just a fiery integrity. And every time I heard about her, it's always been with the utmost respect. And I have the pleasure of meeting her, too. It's just a lovely person. And I. From what I heard, I've heard of Julia. I. I don't think she'd BS you on that.
- [34:42]
Amir Hasan
Oh, no, no. She's. She's also the editor. Right. And she cut out. She cut out like a. I don't even know. It's like. It's like a hundred. She cut out 40,000 words.
- [34:50]
Holly Ghattary
Yeah. Okay. Well, there you go. So, you know, you know, I put.
- [34:54]
Amir Hasan
A few back in. I put the important ones back in. But, you know, I was really happy with the. With the whole process of publishing and the Fact that it's out in the world is something that I'm just so incredibly grateful for, for all the people that I've met.
- [35:05]
Holly Ghattary
Yeah. Well, it's a beautiful book and I, I hope as many people read it as possible. And a reminder to our listeners that under the Full and Crescent Moon by Amir Hasan is available wherever books are bought or borrowed. Amir, my final question for you is, what are you working on now? If anything, maybe you're just taking a well deserved break in luxuriating in the post publication glow.
- [35:27]
Amir Hasan
Yeah, I mean, because like, I was surprised by how long the publishing process really is. So like, you know, after I completed the book, then it was like, you know, like I said, writing the bio, writing all of this back matter and then it's going out and like letting the world know about the book, which is a completely different challenge than writing a book. And now that the, you know, and tomorrow, the 21st of October is when it's out as paperback in the States. So that's a big date as well. But I'm going to spend some time reading. I think I have some ideas about what I would like to write next, but I think because it took so much of my little free time to read the book, write the book, that my reading kind of really fell off. So I think, I think I need to read a little bit before I marinate and let the ideas marinate before I get back to it.
- [36:20]
Holly Ghattary
I love that. By a contemporary Canadian women's literature Prof. At Queen's University called it Gathering Wool. Anytime I would feel like I wasn't writing enough, she's like, you're just gathering wool. And for me, Gathering Wool was reading and reading widely, reading voraciously, reading whatever took my interest, like absolutely anything. The wildest things I can remember. One of the most unforgettable books I've ever read was, I think it was called American Ulysses. And it was a biography of ulysses S. Grant, 14, president of the United States. And I knew nothing about him. I just picked up the book because the dude on the, like the guy, the picture they had of Ulysses on the COVID looked a lot like my husband. And I was like, I'm going to read this. And on a Golden Girl episode where they had Dorothy playing Jeopardy in a dream, one of the questions was about Ulysses Escrade. I'm like, I'm going to learn more about this person than who Dorothy knew of. But I mean, I, it's not that I had any vested interest in that part of American history. And it turned out to be a really fascinating book and one that if it wasn't for the strange whim that I had while in my local library, I never would have picked up. So, yeah, I love that. And I love that for you. And I can't wait to hear what you read, I should say, and hear about what you write next. No pressure. Amir so thank you so much for joining me today on NBN to talk about your debut novel, under the Full and Crescent Moon by, as I mentioned, Amir Hasan and available from Dunduran Books. So, Amir, thank you again for joining me.
- [37:52]
Amir Hasan
Thank you so much. Sam.