Podcast Summary: New Books Network

Episode: Adam Jones, "Sites of Genocide" (Routledge, 2022)

Release Date: November 23, 2025
Host: Keller McFall
Guest: Adam Jones, Professor of Political Science at University of British Columbia Okanagan

Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation between host Keller McFall and leading genocide studies scholar Adam Jones about his new book, Sites of Genocide. The discussion explores the book’s central themes—how places and processes shape the study of genocide, the evolving thinking in the field, the challenges of research, and the importance of both structural and personal engagement. Utilizing personal reflection and field experience, Jones offers nuanced insights into both the ethical and scholarly dimensions of genocide studies.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Power of Place: Murambi and the Sensory Encounter with Genocide

[02:18–12:42]

• Jones recounts his visit to Murambi Genocide Memorial in Rwanda, the only memorial with exhumed bodies openly displayed.
  • “You are literally walking around trying not to knock off limbs.” (Adam Jones, 03:48)
  • The experience, both with and without the camera, raises “a range of ethical questions” and highlights the camera as both a shield and a lens of engagement.
  • The controversy of displaying bodies is discussed, as well as calls for eventual proper burial.
• Keller adds his own experience, noting the powerful role of smell and the difference from other memorials.
  • “I was really struck by the smell... it’s not a smell you typically associate with dead bodies, but it is still something that kind of cements that moment into your head...” (Keller McFall, 07:42)
• The importance of fieldwork: Jones emphasizes needing a “totemic or talismanic visit” to anchor his research, contrasting unique places like Morambi (direct evidence) to more symbolic sites, like the ruins of Van in Turkey, which lack official commemoration.
  • “I’m interested by this question of: can landscapes speak? How do sites of genocide on those landscapes communicate something vital to us?” (Adam Jones, 11:56)

2. Intellectual Evolution and Shifts in Genocide Studies

[12:42–21:36]

• Reflecting on a decade of work: The book is a follow-up and more focused compilation than his previous publications, reflecting a period of global instability and shifting scholarly priorities.
  • “One has a sense of acceleration over the past decade on a number of fronts and not necessarily in a positive or productive direction.” (Adam Jones, 14:37)
• Rise of ‘critical genocide studies’: An increase in self-reflection and reconsideration of definitions and frameworks in the field—a move away from dogma, but sometimes criticized for “navel gazing.”
• Continuity and resilience: The field’s resilience comes from grappling with “an essentially contested concept,” maintaining humility and a drive for new applications, especially around gender and structural violence.

3. The Concept of ‘Anchoring Genocides’ and the Field’s Canon

[21:36–34:16]

• The canon in genocide studies: The field grew from Holocaust and Armenian genocide studies, which remain the “anchors,” but Jones actively worked to destabilize this by elevating less-studied cases.
  • Example: Placing “Genocides of Indigenous Peoples” as the first case in his textbook.
  • “That term, anchoring genocides, is kind of wrestling with the fact that...particular genocides, their scale, their severity...warrants them...being highlighted in the analysis.” (Adam Jones, 25:41)
• Inkblot effect: Major cases act as starting points for broader historical/contextual exploration, e.g., understanding Rwanda 1994 through the wider Great Lakes region context.

4. Genocide as Process, Not Event; The Long 19th Century

[34:16–44:36]

• Challenging event-based thinking: Many genocides, especially those involving indigenous peoples, unfold as prolonged processes, not singular events.
  • “When we talk about that genocide...we talk about them as extended processes, even in the most minimalist framing...by a maximalist framing, they’re lasting hundreds of years.” (Adam Jones, 38:58)
• Historical framing: Genocide, Jones argues, is not peculiarly modern; it is deeply embedded in human history, reflecting recurring motives such as greed or ambition.
  • “Human nature has not changed a lot. Nation building, state building...haven’t fundamentally changed a great deal. Making has a different face, but is also in many ways recognizable as an institution also going back thousands of years.” (Adam Jones, 43:23)
• Processual thinking helps capture systemic and structural forms of genocide.

5. Gender and Structural Violence in Genocide

[44:36–54:06]

• Evolving focus on gender: The field has seen dramatic improvements in recognizing gender-based violence, with concrete demographic changes (e.g., shifting female/male ratios in India).
  • “Those changing attitudes have a lot to do with the growing economic and educational presence of women...Therefore the greater value that families are likely to apply to girl children, et cetera.” (Adam Jones, 46:48)
• Structural change and activism: Jones highlights the importance of grassroots interventions and broader societal shifts, not just military or political interventions, as key in addressing gender-based atrocities.
• Dilemmas in practice: Applying this lens to cases like the Rohingya, Uyghurs, or Ukraine raises complex ethical and practical challenges:
  • “Recognizing vulnerabilities as a result of the research that I’ve done, but then also coming up against...the ethical quandaries and political realities of a given case is a task that I think will never end.” (Adam Jones, 52:42)

6. The Role of the Genocide Scholar—Parallels with Physicians

[54:06–60:48]

• Scholars as “diagnosticians”: Quoting from his book, scholars “have as much in common with physicians as they do with historians, sociologists...” (Keller McFall, 54:06)
• Jones extends the analogy:
  • Describes the emotional and practical limits of academic work vs. immediate, impactful hands-on professions like his partner, a pediatric neurosurgeon:
  • “We have the opportunity and the ability to keep much of this stuff at arm’s length...It does require a measure of self-defense...But you’re going to have to find a way on a day-to-day basis...to inspire you, to give you that sense of constructive intervention.” (Adam Jones, 57:10–59:00)
• Advice for young scholars: Engage locally where you can make a difference, accept the intangible or delayed impact of academic work, and sustain motivation through achievable, meaningful interventions.

7. Influential Works in Genocide Studies (Book Recommendations)

[60:48–68:49]

• Adam Jones recommends:
  • Marching into Darkness: The Wehrmacht and the Holocaust in Belarus by Waitman Wade Beorn—a powerful archival study eroding the myth of Wehrmacht innocence.
  • Learning from the Germans by Susan Neiman—on post-Holocaust memory.
  • Killing Season: A History of the Indonesian Massacres, 1965–66 by Geoffrey Robinson—examines the process of canonization in genocide studies and the inclusion (or exclusion) of ‘political’ genocides.
  • If You Leave Us Here, We Will Die (also by Robinson)—on East Timor.

8. What’s Next for Adam Jones?

[69:22–70:49]

• Finishing the fourth edition of his genocide textbook.
• Working on a forthcoming book, Studying Genocide (for Routledge), focusing on pedagogy and genocide education, explicitly created as a more manageable and practical resource for educators and students.

Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• "You are literally walking around trying not to knock off limbs." – Adam Jones [03:48]
• "I'm interested by this question of: can landscapes speak? How do sites of genocide on those landscapes communicate something vital to us?" – Adam Jones [11:56]
• "One has a sense of acceleration over the past decade on a number of fronts and not necessarily in a positive or productive direction." – Adam Jones [14:37]
• "That term, anchoring genocides, is kind of wrestling with the fact that...their scale, their severity...warrants them...being highlighted in the analysis." – Adam Jones [25:41]
• "When we talk about that genocide...we talk about them as extended processes, even in the most minimalist framing...by a maximalist framing, they’re lasting hundreds of years." – Adam Jones [38:58]
• "Recognizing vulnerabilities as a result of the research that I’ve done, but then also coming up against...the ethical quandaries and political realities of a given case is a task that I think will never end." – Adam Jones [52:42]
• "We have as much in common with physicians as we do with historians, sociologists..." – Adam Jones (quoted by Keller McFall) [54:06]
• "We have a more challenging time seeing the positive consequences of them...you’re going to have to find a way on a day-to-day basis...to inspire you, to give you that sense of constructive intervention." – Adam Jones [59:00]

Memorable Moments and Tone

• Personal stories of fieldwork and the challenges (both ethical and sensory) of engaging with sites of violence.
• Candid reflections on academic life, the limitations of scholarship, and the ongoing quest for meaning and impact.
• Accessible, modest, and often self-deprecating tone, with Jones frequently downplaying the ‘mystique’ of complex theories: “It’s not rocket science.” (44:09, 53:56)

Useful Timestamps

• Murambi Memorial Experience: [02:18–07:20]
• Anchoring Genocides & Canon Formation: [21:36–31:58]
• Genocide as Process (19th Century Discussion): [34:16–44:36]
• Gender and Structural Violence: [44:36–54:06]
• Advice to Early Career Scholars (Physician Analogy): [54:06–60:48]
• Influential Books: [60:48–68:49]
• What’s Next for Adam Jones: [69:22–70:49]

This detailed conversation offers a wide-ranging, personal, and thought-provoking guide for anyone interested in the evolving field of genocide studies—scholars, students, and general listeners alike.