Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network / Nordic Asia Podcast
Episode: AI, News, and the State: Reinstitutionalising Journalism in Global China’s Algorithmic Age — A conversation with Dr. Joanne Kuai
Guest: Dr. Joanne Kuai (Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology)
Host: Ao Ning
Date: November 3, 2025

Episode Overview

In this insightful episode, Dr. Joanne Kuai discusses her recent research on how artificial intelligence (AI) is reshaping journalism in China, with comparative insights from Europe and the United States. The conversation explores the intersection of digital journalism, automation, state influence, and legal frameworks, offering a nuanced look into the changing landscape of news production, distribution, and regulation in the algorithmic age.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Origins and Scope of the Research

• Personal Motivation and Initial Inquiry
  • Dr. Kuai’s research originated from her personal existential queries about "how to be human in the age of artificial intelligence", sparked by her experiences as a journalist and the conversations happening when she pursued her master's in the UK. (01:47)
  • Initially aimed to study how AI changed journalistic routines but found state involvement was also critically influential in China.
  • "I also come to realize, [AI] isn’t just a set of neutral tools... It’s a socio-technical phenomenon that reflects and reinforces particular power dynamics, especially in the context where state and tech companies are deeply embedded in each other’s institutional log." — Dr. Kuai (03:23)

Textual Analysis and Journalists’ Perspectives in China

• Chinese Journalists Defy Stereotypes
  • Contrary to the stereotype of being mere "party mouthpieces," journalists in China strive to play watchdog roles, limited by political constraints. (04:02)
  • Example: People's Magazine’s investigative report on food delivery platforms led to policy debates and some improvements for workers, but criticism toward state-developed AI systems remained restrained.
  • "Journalists must be loyal facilitators of state goals while attempting to expose risks and injustice in the private tech sector." — Dr. Kuai (05:14)

Differences in Adoption Across News Sectors (06:05)

• Variation by Organizational Resources, Not Just Format
  • Large organizations have AI infrastructure and align with national discourse on China as an AI superpower—staff in such organizations more confident and positive toward AI.
  • Smaller newsrooms and freelancers are wary due to lack of resources, precarious employment, and concerns over copyright and income loss.
  • Surprising finding: Senior journalists in China are often more enthusiastic about AI than younger journalists, who are more skeptical and concerned about ethics. (08:40)

Distinctions Between Freelance and Independent Journalists (09:35)

• Freelance ≠ Independent
  • In China, freelance means a more precarious employment status, often contributing to state-owned outlets without more autonomy over topics or higher independence.

Perspectives from Technologists and AI Researchers (10:20)

• Engineers Less Concerned with Ethics
  • Technologists focus on efficiency and innovation, paying less attention to editorial or ethical questions such as authorship or transparency.
  • "I don’t care if we put a byline to indicate this piece of news is written by a robot or a human, because readers come here to our website for the contents, not for the byline." — Chinese AI engineer (11:12)
  • Algorithmic bias and accountability concerns less pronounced compared to Western contexts.

News Distribution Ecosystem in China (13:31)

• Algorithmic Platforms as Meta-Gatekeepers
  • Shift from traditional outlets (newspapers, TV) to "multi-platform ecosystem" including WeChat, Weibo, Toutiao, Douyin, and Xiaohongshu.
  • Tech platforms shape visibility of content, acting as "meta gatekeepers" and fundamentally altering how news reaches audiences.

The Role of AI and Reinstitutionalisation of Journalism (15:46)

• Reinstitutionalisation vs. Deinstitutionalisation
  • In contrast to Western narratives about journalism's deinstitutionalisation due to tech disruption, China sees a recalibration—AI is integrated into journalistic routines to fit state-defined norms.
  • Example: Automated content moderation tools, flagged by journalists as lifesavers, help manage banned keywords, censored celebrities, and political sensitivities far more efficiently than humans could.
  • These tools embed and reinforce state-defined legitimacy and control in the journalistic field. (17:16)

AI Regulation: China, EU, and US Approaches (19:57)

• China's Proactive, Experimental Regulation
  • China introduced regulations for algorithms (2021), deepfakes (2022), and generative AI (2023), with a broader AI regulation forthcoming.
  • Focus is on "data gathering" and state understanding/control of AI development.
  • EU: Comprehensive but slower-moving risk-based regulation (AI Act finalized in 2024).
  • US: Market-driven, mostly self-regulation, justified by global competition.
  • "This competitive framing of the fear of the losing AI race can sometimes really sideline the broader questions about equities and safeties and AI accountability." — Dr. Kuai (22:17)

Copyright Law and Its Impact on AI Innovation (22:36)

• Case Study: Copyright for AI-Generated News
  • Chinese court awarded copyright for AI-generated news (Tencent Dream Writer), a global first.
  • China’s approach is relatively progressive—protecting AI-generated content without giving machines authorship. This benefits tech giants but disadvantages small media and journalists.
  • European policy is slower and "more human-centered" but still tends to protect big corporations.
  • In the US, there’s "policy silence" on this issue.
  • "The copyright law doesn’t just regulate creative work, it really shapes who gets to speak and be recognized as an author in the AI age." — Dr. Kuai (26:07)

Broad Reflections and Human Agency (27:41)

• Reinstitutionalisation Beyond Journalism
  • AI is not only transforming journalism’s norms but reshaping the legal and institutional landscape around technology.
  • Dr. Kuai remains optimistic about the growing awareness and critical debate on AI’s social implications.
  • "It is important to consider human not only because it allows us ... to unleash potential and creativity, but also facilitates the chain of accountability, because there shouldn’t be any rights without responsibilities." — Dr. Kuai (26:57)
  • Encourages everyone to reflect on "how to be human in the age of AI"—a question central to her work and teaching.

On Academic Collaboration (29:41)

• The Value of Interdisciplinary and International Collaboration
  • Collaboration with scholars from diverse backgrounds was intellectually stimulating, sometimes challenging, but highly enriching.
  • Emphasizes the need for compassion and mutual support in academia.

Recommended Readings & Resources (31:25)

• Dr. Kuai’s own open-access dissertation (and forthcoming book)
• Between Truth and Power: The Legal Constructions of Informational Capitalism by Julie Cohen — highly recommended for understanding law and policy in the information economy.
• Kevin Xu’s Interconnected newsletter for up-to-date insights on US-China tech relations.
• Cultural works: The original 1995 anime Ghost in the Shell and the video game Detroit: Become Human, for philosophical explorations of human-machine relationships.

Memorable Quotes by Segment

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 03:23 | Dr. Kuai | "AI isn’t just a set of neutral tools or algorithms. It’s a socio-technical phenomenon that reflects and reinforces particular power dynamics, especially in the context where the state and tech companies are deeply embedded." | | 05:14 | Dr. Kuai | "Journalists must be loyal facilitators of state goals while attempting to expose risks and injustice in the private tech sector." | | 08:40 | Dr. Kuai | "In China the senior journalists are more enthusiastic about AI than their younger colleagues... because they must engage with top-down AI national strategies." | | 11:12 | AI Engineer (paraphrased by Dr. Kuai) | "I don’t care if we put a byline to indicate this piece of news is written by a robot or a human, because readers come here... for the content, not the byline." | | 15:46 | Dr. Kuai | "When I talk about reinstitutionalizing journalism... I mean the process through which journalism adapts its norms, rules and legitimacy under these new technological and political arrangements." | | 17:16 | Dr. Kuai | "[AI moderation tools] saved us our lives... The machines were able to tell us which censored celebrities or political officials appeared for three seconds in our broadcast." | | 22:17 | Dr. Kuai | "This competitive framing of the fear of the losing AI race can sometimes really sideline the broader questions about equities and safeties and AI accountability." | | 26:07 | Dr. Kuai | "The copyright law doesn’t just regulate creative work, it really shapes who gets to speak and be recognized as an author in the AI age." | | 26:57 | Dr. Kuai | "It is important to consider human... it facilitates the establishment of accountability... because there shouldn’t be any rights without responsibilities." |

Notable Timestamps

• 01:47 – Dr. Kuai shares her journey into AI and journalism research
• 04:02 – Findings from textual analysis and journalist interviews
• 06:05 – Differences by newsroom size and status (freelancers vs. staff)
• 10:20 – Engineers’ perspectives on AI and authorship
• 13:31 – Platforms and algorithmic gatekeeping in Chinese news distribution
• 15:46 – "Reinstitutionalisation" theory and AI’s political role in newsrooms
• 19:57 – AI regulatory frameworks: China, EU, US
• 22:36 – Copyright law’s impact on AI innovation and news authorship
• 29:41 – Insights on academic collaborations
• 31:25 – Dr. Kuai’s recommended books, articles, and media

Final Reflections

Dr. Joanne Kuai’s wide-ranging research unpacks the complex intertwining of AI, journalism, and state power in contemporary China. She highlights not just technological shifts but broader questions of legitimacy, ethics, and human agency—inviting ongoing critical reflection on what it means to be human in an age increasingly shaped by algorithms and artificial intelligence.