Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Aisha Sasha John, "total: poems" (Random House, 2025)
Host: Holly Gattery
Guest: Aisha Sasha John
Date: October 9, 2025

Overview

This episode features Holly Gattery in conversation with acclaimed poet, dancer, and performer Aisha Sasha John about her 2025 poetry collection, total: poems. The discussion explores John's innovative approach to poetic form, the role of receptivity in her artistic process, the spiritual and quotidian elements running through her work, and her ongoing engagement with risk and vulnerability. The conversation is richly layered, delving into the playful, deconstructive, and mystical dimensions of John’s poetry.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

A Book that Reignites Creative Play

• [01:53] Holly Gattery reflects on how total: poems reignited her own sense of creative play and freedom with language:

  "When I was done reading I wanted to go play in a sandbox and like build things and just putter around with words and language and see what becomes."

• The book is praised for its “gorgeous and breathtaking” refusal of poetic convention.

Receptivity as Creative Method

• [02:40] Aisha Sasha John shares her philosophy of “energetic economy” in writing:

  "There's like an entity of aliveness that we get access to through reading...and we can pass it on."

• [05:13] John details her receptive approach:

  "Both of my practices are receptive practices...I try to, like, merely report what arises in my consciousness...I just try and create the conditions where I can, like, listen really well."

• The host and guest agree on the transformative power of listening and being receptive, both in art and life.

Deconstruction, Play & the Intrinsic Sense of Language

• [08:31] John reframes language and poetic form:

  "I'm really into language's adequacy. We do a...there's so much that we can accomplish with phrases." "I used to call this practice like a nouning...It had to be the present tense. So it had to be in the moment, and it had to be. Never have thought or felt of before..."

• The process is likened to a meditation practice, capturing “novel experiences” through present-moment awareness and mindful listening.
• total uses fragments and juxtaposition rather than traditional sentences to allow meaning to emerge from how the parts "vibrate against each other" ([08:31]–[11:32]).

Capitalization & Formal Experiment

• [12:43] John discusses the origin of her “all caps” poems:

  "The capitalized poems have a different origin place than the ones that aren't...the all caps lines...made it like very symmetrical, very uniform. And it kind of gives me the vibe of like a ledger—like this on and on and on."

• She distinguishes proclamation from shouting:

  "To me they don't seem like they're yelling, but so much as proclaiming. But...a lot of the material in those all caps poems are like very...banal, like very quotidian experiences."

• This tension between amplified form and intimate content is highlighted as a significant aspect of the book’s materiality ([14:02]–[15:18]).
• [17:37] Gattery interprets the capitalization as “a form of purity of thought...reflecting not...being delivered to us or with the intention of it, you know, changed necessarily.”

Spiritual Life Writing & Finding the Sacred in the Everyday

• [19:14] John identifies her practices as spiritual:

  “Total is a work of contemporary mysticism. Because I think that's what it is for me. It's like I'm contending with being.”

• The book leverages “capital P Presence” made available through absence and loss.
• John references the “divinity of the everyday” as central to her poetics:

  “The way that we can celebrate and find beauty and miracle in every single element of reality, including the most painful. It's like breakup. Praise God. You know, it's like all of these things are available to be loved.”

• [22:06] Gattery strongly resonates, describing the work as having “so much faith, just faith in…every single thing… the daily sacredness.”

Performance, Risk, and New Work

• [23:16] John previews her next book, Trembling:

  "It's sort of tracking my mother's dementia...I am kind of really sinking into that in this work and wanting to really give myself—not...permission—it's like my job is to include what I'm afraid of including." "Having one's finger on what one is risking is what gives an artist their, like, voice."

• [25:08] Gattery responds emotionally, emphasizing the importance of risk in art:

  “If I'm not risking anything, I don't want to say anything...if I'm going to contribute to the noise, I better be...there better be something that's on the line for me doing it.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On poetic aliveness:
  • Aisha Sasha John [02:40]:

    "...It feels like there's like an entity of aliveness that we get access to through reading, also through life, but also through reading. And we can pass it on."

• On listening as creation:
  • Aisha Sasha John [05:13]:

    "I don't generate what arises in my consciousness. I just try and create the conditions where I can, like, listen really well."

• Poetic logic & fragments:
  • Aisha Sasha John [08:31]:

    "Often they're sensational. And so there is a way that I'm...sometimes translating sensation into language. But...I think, because I have this long poetry practice...often I'm not translating. It arrives to me in language."

• On capitalization and ‘proclamation’:
  • Aisha Sasha John [14:02]:

    "To me they don't seem like they're yelling, but so much as proclaiming...there's this juxtaposition between the form, this like amplified form, and the sort of quietness...of what's being said."

• Spiritual ethos:
  • Aisha Sasha John [19:31]:

    "Total is a work of contemporary mysticism...loss, how grief creates opportunities to be closer to God." "Like drinking a cup of water. Praise God. And, like, I think that's very much my poetics and my kind of ethos. Like the cat leaves a nub of ginger in the bed. Praise God."

• On artistic risk:
  • Aisha Sasha John [23:16]:

    "Having one's finger on what one is risking is what gives an artist their, like, voice."

Key Timestamps

• 01:29 – Introduction: Host’s praise for the book’s transformative impact
• 04:51 – John’s background & artistic philosophy
• 05:13 – Receptivity and authorship in creative practice
• 08:31 – Deconstruction, play, and intuition in poetic language
• 12:43 – Capitalization, Tumblr origins, and material tension in “all caps” poems
• 17:37 – Host describes capitalization as “purity of thought”; John agrees
• 18:02 – John reads a sample poem from total: poems
• 19:14 – Spirituality, contemporary mysticism, and honoring the everyday
• 23:16 – John introduces her next book, Trembling, and the role of risk
• 25:08 – Host and guest reflect on vulnerability and risk as central to art

Sample Poem (Read by Aisha Sasha John at [18:02])

"How did a nub of ginger end up in the bed? Answer the cat. When I said I have to be fibrous so as not to be consumed, I was not even fucking kidding. FYI, I am bleeding from my pussy Diva cat Kefir crazy cat. To the road. The roar. Everything urgent. ARR 401 Richmond. Ugh. Figured out what a gallery is. Does they are like churches where one can purchase the furniture. Does the cat fried egg understand me as a large coconut smelling cat?"

Conclusion

This insightful episode offers both a vibrant introduction to Aisha Sasha John’s total: poems and a wide-ranging conversation about poetry’s possibilities, the sacredness of daily life, the nuance of form, creative risk, and the aesthetics of receptivity. It’s a compelling listen for anyone interested in contemporary poetry, process, and the intersections of art, spirituality, and vulnerability.