Podcast Summary: New Books Network — Interview with Alex R. Tipei

Episode Title

Alex R. Tipei, "Unintended Nations: How French Liberals' Empire of Civilization Remade Southeast Europe and the Post-Napoleonic World" (McGill-Queen's UP, 2025) Date: September 15, 2025
Host: Dr. Miranda Melcher
Guest: Dr. Alex R. Tipei

Overview

This episode delves into Dr. Alex R. Tipei’s new book, Unintended Nations, which uncovers the subtle but profound influence French liberals exerted over Southeast Europe in the post-Napoleonic era. Focusing on the regions corresponding to modern Greece and Romania, Tipei explores how "civilization speak"—a blend of ideological discourse, reforms, and educational projects—helped shape not only local societies but catalyzed unintended nation-building. The conversation traverses from informal French imperialism to the forging of Greek and Romanian national identities, considering the contrasting case of French formal empire in Algeria.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

Introduction & Motivation for the Book

[02:49–04:36]

• Dr. Tipei introduces herself as a professor at the University of Montreal focused on 19th-century Europe and transnational history.
• Personal connection: Her Romanian heritage and experience growing up learning French stimulated her interest in French influence across borders.
  • Quote: “What concretely is French influence? ...in some ways this book was an attempt at self psychoanalysis…” (03:16, Tipei)

Defining "Civilization Speak"

[05:07–07:08]

• Tipei coins "civilization speak" as a bundled discourse: not Enlightenment universalism nor later colonial ‘mission civilisatrice,’ but an in-between rhetoric and package of modernizing tools.
• Elements: Education, hospitals, codified laws, economic reforms.
  • Quote: “It was a set of discursive practices...a constellation of discourses linked to this, and then also a host of modernizing projects and technologies.” (05:28, Tipei)
• Civilization speak as mutually developed, not simply exported from France.

When and Where? Beyond France, Beyond “Post-Napoleonic”

[07:41–11:07]

• The book actually begins during the Napoleonic era, with influence shaped by events like the Egyptian campaign’s failure.
• Networks stretched: Paris <-> Iași and Bucharest (Romania) <-> Nauplion and Athens (Greece) <-> Istanbul and the Russian Empire.
  • Quote: “These figures are really interested in modernizing...through...schools, the creation of hospitals, prisons..." (06:35, Tipei)

Civilizing Projects: Policies and Motives

[11:36–17:41]

• French moderate liberals (post-1815) lost political power and hoped to shore it up domestically via public-private institutions: schools (notably mutual method schools), hospitals, asylums, prisons.
• Exported these models abroad to reinforce France’s international prestige during its diplomatic/military weakness.
  • Quote: “They start to create these organizations where they're going to create institutions to civilize the French masses…quickly in allies in the Greek-speaking world…” (11:47, Tipei)

Project Implementation: Global Networks and Standardization

[18:31–21:48]

• Associations like Society for Elementary Education and Society for Christian Morals tailored projects and enforced strict adherence to French methods.
• Obsessed with the faithful replication of French “civilizing” models at home and abroad.

Reception in Southeast Europe: Local Agency & Negotiation

[22:03–30:04]

• Example: Nicolae Rosetti-Roznovanu, Moldavian elite, adopts French mutual school methods for local gain.
  • Sought personal/political leverage more than “civilizing” missions.
  • Customized French discourse for Moldavian (and later Greek) context—flattering French prestige while serving local goals.
• With Greek independence (post-1821), dependency on French (and Western) support increased; French models embedded in Greek state-building.
  • Quote: “For Rossetti Rosnovano, flattering the French this way … doesn’t really cost him anything.” (26:37, Tipei)

Greek Independence and Nation-Building: “Civilization Speak” as Rhetoric

[30:19–35:33]

• Before independence, many Greek elites were incrementalists, skeptical of outright revolt.
• The Greek War of Independence (1821) provided both regional and international actors with narratives:
  • Internally: War of Christianity.
  • For Europe: Greece as origin and heir of “civilization”—Europe owes Greeks a civilizational debt.
  • Quote: “They turn to this idea of civilization...talk about Greece as being the origin point of European civilization.” (32:51, Tipei)

Civilizational Discourse in Nation-State Formation

[36:03–41:11]

• After independence, Greek leaders use French models—sometimes voluntarily, sometimes under pressure (e.g., requirement to implement French methods in schools for receiving resources).
• Greece is crafted as Europe’s “America in Europe”—a space of investment and tutelage for the West.
• Discursive justification for ‘guiding’ Greece on the path back to civilization, asserting French authority.

Romanian Parallels: Adopting and Adapting “Civilization Speak”

[43:17–50:39]

• Romanian principalities likewise adopted these educational and social projects, initially as tools of reform and gradual autonomy.
• When the imagined large “Greece” failed to emerge, Romanian elites pivoted toward a distinct identity, invoking connections to Roman antiquity and Christianity.
  • Quote: “They use all these tools...to start to disseminate a developing notion of a Romanian identity.” (48:57, Tipei)

Algeria: Contrasting the Case of Formal Empire

[50:58–54:37]

• Post-1830, with the conquest of Algeria, the discourse adjusting:
  • French civilizational language justifies domination, stating Algeria lacks Christianity/antiquity credentials for equal “civilized” status.
• Tools/techniques are similar, but outcomes diverge: soft power/nation-building in Southeast Europe vs. hard imperialism in Algeria.
  • Quote: “These other Southeast European partners of the French liberals have the potential...where...civilizational discourse...have prevented the Algerians from doing exactly the same thing.” (53:37, Tipei)

Reflections and Takeaways

[54:59–58:18]

• History is contingent: Outcomes were not predetermined; tools intended for ‘civilization’ ended up creating “unintended nations.”
• Fluidity of both motives and identities among elites in region.
• Importance of integrating domestic and international political histories for full understanding.
  • Quote: “I hope that...it will give readers also an appreciation of...what transnational history...can really do and how it can create a new sort of sense of a narrative…” (57:33, Tipei)

Future Research Directions

[58:35–61:26]

• Corruption as a political accusation: Part of a larger European project.
• “Empirical Plunder”: A new book-length project examining French scientific expeditions to Greece, Algeria, and Mexico (19th c.), linking development, race science, and imperial discourses.
  • Quote: “Whenever anything is positive or good...it's civil, it’s civilization...whenever anything is bad, it represents a form of corruption.” (58:48, Tipei)

Notable Quotes

• “Civilization speak...became a way of talking about the way that these actors...referenced this whole constellation of ideas, practices and institutions.”
  — Dr. Alex Tipei, [06:13]

• “What concretely is French influence?...influence kind of implies this very vague and positive, altruistic even sort of relationship. Whereas the story is more complicated, I think.”
  — Dr. Alex Tipei, [03:29]

• “If they become independent, then this will create opportunities for everybody. So on the one hand...there’s a real interest on the part of French liberals...also in other groups throughout Europe.”
  — Dr. Alex Tipei, [39:37]

• “It cost [Rossetti] very little to praise the French...but for Kapodistrias, it cost a great deal more, and the way that they framed it changed over time.”
  — Dr. Alex Tipei, [56:09]

Key Timestamps

• [01:36] — Episode start & guest intro
• [05:07] — Definition of “civilization speak”
• [11:36] — Domestic and international reform projects by French liberals
• [22:03] — Example of Moldavian adaptation of French schools
• [30:19] — Greece, revolution, and civilization rhetoric
• [43:17] — Romania’s nation-building process and adaptation
• [50:58] — French Algeria: contrasting informal and formal empire
• [54:59] — Reflections: contingency, transnational history
• [58:35] — Next projects: corruption and scientific expeditions

Conclusion

Dr. Tipei’s research illuminates the complexities of informal French imperial influence, showing how "civilization projects" served competing interests and morphed in unintended ways—contributing to the roots of new nations. By juxtaposing Greece, Romania, and Algeria, the episode highlights the flexibility and limits of civilizational rhetoric, showing how nation-building, soft power, and hard empire could emerge from the same toolkit, given different geopolitical and cultural contexts. For listeners (and readers), the book challenges assumptions about the origins and agents of nationhood in Southeast Europe and spotlights the value of transnational historical approaches.