New Books Network – Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Ali Anooshahr, "Slavery in the Early Mughal World: The Life and Thoughts of Jawhar Aftabachi (1520s–1580s)" (Oxford UP, 2025)
Host: Mortaza Hajizadeh
Guest: Dr. Ali Anooshahr (Professor of History, UC Davis)
Date: December 5, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the overlooked subject of slavery in early Mughal India through Dr. Ali Anooshahr’s new book, focusing on the life and writings of Johar Aftabchi, an enslaved court servant from the mid-16th century. The discussion covers the historiographical gaps in studies of Indian Ocean slavery, the value of microhistory, the lived realities and mobility of enslaved persons, and the nuances of social transformation in the Mughal Empire. Anooshahr provides methodological and historical insights while illuminating the personal dimensions of court slavery.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Case for Studying Indian Ocean Slavery

• Topic Introduction ([02:28]):
  Dr. Anooshahr emphasizes the literature’s focus on transatlantic slavery, noting how Indian Ocean slavery—especially in Mughal India—remains understudied.
• Methodological Approach – Microhistory ([06:20]):
  “If you take the life of a single person who wrote a text, Johar, and you follow his life, you’re going to see connections that you may not necessarily see in the macro discussions...”
  Johar’s story reveals global patterns otherwise invisible in large-scale histories.

2. Slavery, Movement, and Mobility in the Early Mughal World

• Johar’s Origins and Trajectory ([14:50–18:23]):
  Dr. Anooshahr reconstructs Johar's likely trajectory:
  • Born in early 1520s North Black Sea region (today’s Ukraine/Russia), probably from a peasant background.
  • Likely enslaved in Crimean Tatar raids, sold to Ottomans, and eventually purchased by Ottoman admiral Salman Rais.
  • Travels with Rais to Indian Ocean/Red Sea theaters, after which he is taken to Gujarat in India post-mutiny.
  • Captured by Mughals, becomes a court slave under Emperor Humayun, accompanying him to Iran and back.
  • “He was probably one of these people… brought to some kind of slave market as a child…” ([15:47])

3. Slavery Transformed: From 'Bande' to 'Chela'

• Renaming and Moralization of Status ([10:04–14:11]):
  Under Akbar, court slaves were no longer called ‘bande’ (slave) but ‘chela’ (disciple).
  • “There’s a kind of moment… where the emperor says these people who are court slaves should not be called slaves, they should be called disciples.” ([11:00])
  • This repackages dependency as spiritual discipleship, creating intimacy via personal service.
  • Johar’s text shows self-elevation: “His own status as an author, as a witness… is now elevated in a kind of mystical way.”

4. Training, Promotion, and Everyday Life at Court

• Training and Pedagogical Structures ([23:45–27:45]):

  • Court slaves like Johar were trained not only as soldiers (in gunpowder artillery, musketry) but also in Persian/Turkish literature.
  • “There was this ladder… if you start from shaget piche (trainee) to become a mihtar (higher rank).” ([24:33])

• Education as Socialization ([21:03–23:33]):

  • Slaves memorized poetry (Hafez, Jami, Attar) as both language training and moral instruction.
  • “Most of these… if you follow the verse that he quotes… there’s always a kind of a slave story in there, which makes me think that these were probably texts that were given to slaves…” ([22:07–22:50])

5. Johar Aftabchi as Author: Voice, Agency & Alienation

• Deuteragonist and Narrative Structure ([28:51–31:21]):

  • Johar’s “autobiography” is actually a biography of Emperor Humayun.
  • Johar positions himself as a secondary character (deuteragonist), witnessing and recording (much like Dr. Watson to Sherlock Holmes).
  • “There is agency… because if you’re a slave, you get to create yourself and the emperor as characters in a story.” ([31:21])

• Alienation and Marginalization ([31:51–34:47]):

  • After Akbar’s accession, Johar’s influence wanes; he lacks intimacy with the new emperor.
  • Attempts to remain visible (e.g., having his memoir rewritten by a courtier) fail, reinforcing personal and institutional alienation.
  • “When Akbar is emperor, Johar will be marginalized. …There’s nothing we know about his whereabouts until this text is written again in the 1580s.” ([34:47])

6. Persianate Hospitality, Politics, and Memoir

• Changing Social Bonds ([37:12–40:12]):
  • Pre-modern Persianate hospitality was not about nationhood but obligations between individuals and lineages.
  • New state structures (Safavids) begin to prioritize raison d’état over personal/familial obligations—a transition reflected in Johar’s writing and life.
  • “It’s a cultural character… hospitality is done… between people, individual people. So one person may show hospitality to somebody else, but this creates mutual bonds…” ([37:25])

7. Subaltern Lives & Bureaucracy in the Mughal State

• Rise of Marginalized Voices ([41:04–46:51]):
  • Johar’s memoir fits into a pattern with texts by Datu Sarwani, Bayazid Bayat, etc.
  • These writers show the breaking down of lineage-based states and the rise of alienated individuals who seek new forms of belonging (e.g., seeing the Emperor as a mystical patriarch).
  • “It’s the rise of the individual, but it’s not a sort of triumphant… thing. It’s individualization as alienation, as separation…” ([45:55])
  • Mughal bureaucracy, recruitment, and merit-based promotion create new routes for social mobility—but also new forms of dependence and exclusion.

8. Slavery in Indian Ocean vs. Transatlantic Worlds

• Comparative Approaches & Moral Complexity ([47:21–53:25]):
  • Dr. Anooshahr warns against “competition of suffering,” emphasizing vast differences of context, function, and degree of violence.
  • Indian Ocean slavery was not less cruel in principle: violence, family separation, castration, concubinage, and labor exploitation existed.
  • Mughal India was not a capitalist society, so forms of labor exploitation (e.g., plantation slavery) differ. Yet, violence and alienation remain central to both systems.
  • “We don’t want to set up a kind of a competition of suffering… we don't know how people experienced suffering…” ([48:10])
  • Calls for historicizing moral debates: “...the best way is to look at the time itself and see what kind of moral criticisms… were being presented against slavery.” ([50:26])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Microhistory:
  “Once you move down to the level of the individual… you also get to see things that you didn’t necessarily see before.” – Anooshahr ([06:20])

• On Slavery and Discipleship:
  “It’s a kind of a repackaging, a sublimation of this obviously very unequal relationship of dependency.” – Anooshahr ([12:57])

• On Agency in Slavery:
  “If you’re a slave, you get to create yourself and the emperor as characters in a story.” – Anooshahr ([31:21])

• On Competition of Suffering:
  “We don’t want to set up a kind of a competition of suffering… who suffered less, and therefore it was better.” – Anooshahr ([48:10])

• On Alienation and the Individual:
  “It’s the rise of the individual, but it's not a sort of triumphant… thing. It’s individualization as alienation, as separation.” – Anooshahr ([45:55])

• On Moral Judgment:
  “I think the baseline I would expect most people now who are writing about this would be opposed to slavery as a bad thing, you know…” – Anooshahr ([53:13])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:31] – Podcast Intro (content begins)
• [02:28] – Intro & Motivation for the Book
• [06:20] – Methodology: Microhistory and Global Connectivity
• [10:04] – Servitude as Discipleship
• [14:50–18:23] – Reconstructing Johar’s Life
• [21:03–23:33] – Persian Literary Training
• [23:45–27:45] – Court Slave Training and Ranks
• [28:30–31:21] – Johar’s Memoir and Deuteragonist Status
• [31:51–34:47] – Marginalization and Alienation
• [37:04–40:12] – Hospitality, Exile, and State Formation
• [41:04–46:51] – Subaltern Memoirs and the New Bureaucracy
• [47:21–53:25] – Comparing Slave Systems & Moral Implications

Flow & Tone

The tone is reflective, intellectually curious, and sensitive to both historiographical and ethical dimensions. Dr. Anooshahr’s responses are nuanced and insightful, emphasizing complexity rather than polemic. The conversation unwinds patiently, allowing for deep dives into both the personal story of Johar Aftabchi and the larger questions of methodology, state formation, and slavery studies.

Conclusion

This episode provides an engaging, multi-faceted exploration of slavery in early Mughal India, offering both historical depth and methodological innovation. Dr. Anooshahr’s research re-centers the study of slavery on lesser-known geographies and individuals, moving beyond macro-histories to recover the lives, voices, and writings of the marginalized in early modern South Asia.