Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books Network – New Books in Southeast Asian Studies
Host: Duncan McCargo
Guest: Amitav Acharya, Distinguished Professor, American University
Book Discussed: Tragic Nation: Burma—Why and How Democracy Failed (Penguin Random House, 2023)
Date: December 30, 2025

In this episode, Duncan McCargo speaks with acclaimed international relations scholar Amitav Acharya about his latest book, which explores the collapse of democracy in Burma (Myanmar), the roots and mechanics of military rule, and the perspectives of Burma’s "thought warriors" — young, nonviolent activists at the frontlines of resistance. The discussion interrogates longstanding academic and political assumptions about Burma's governance, the role of the military, prospects for resistance and reform, and the complexities of writing about these issues for a wider, non-academic audience.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Amitav Acharya Wrote About Burma

• Background: Though viewed primarily as an international relations scholar, Acharya has deep ties to Southeast Asia, with extensive travel and teaching experience in Burma (02:30–04:24).
  • "In fact, I would say I’ve visited Burma more than any place in India, except my home state…" (03:30, C)
• Motivation: His longstanding fascination with Burmese politics, previous research on ASEAN and Burma, and firsthand exposure informed his decision to write this book for a broad audience.

2. The “Thought Warriors”: Young Voices of Resistance

• Who They Are: The “thought warriors” are young members of the Civil Disobedience Movement (CDM), primarily students engaging in nonviolent protest after the 2021 coup (04:48–08:10).
  • "They renounce violence... but at the same time they have ideas, they have emotions, they have sort of visions about the country's future." (07:22, C)
• Research Process: Due to COVID restrictions, Acharya relied on "research by stealth"—conducting remote interviews/surveys with activists through trusted contacts, making their voices central to his narrative.

3. Why Did Democracy Fail in Burma?

• “Why” Is Key: Examines widely circulated explanations (ethnic fragmentation, foreign interference), but stresses “regime security” as the crux of military entrenchment (08:28–12:14).
  • “Once they got power and once they enjoyed the benefits of power, they did everything possible to stay in power and became a self-perpetuating dynamic.” (10:44, C)
• Regime Security vs. State Security: The book argues military’s primary concern has evolved into preserving its own privileges, power, and protection, making real democracy impossible under their watch.

4. How Did Democracy Collapse?

• Immediate Triggers: The military felt threatened by the opposition’s landslide 2020 election victory and prospects for constitutional change, leading to the 2021 coup (12:31–14:35).
  • “When the 2020 elections showed that the military-backed parties are basically decimated... there was an immediate fear in the military that this will lead to a long-term civilian takeover.” (12:45, C)
• Failed Dialogue: Failed negotiations between civilian leaders and the military, compounded by economic crises and mistrust, sealed democracy’s fate.

5. The “Silver Lining”: New Democratic Alliances?

• Cross-Ethnic Unity: For the first time, resistance brings together lowland Burmans and ethnic minorities; previously, the military fought primarily against minorities (15:06–17:51).
  • “This is a situation when the military regime is fighting the majority... not just a minority. That creates a new situation... an opportunity for long-term unity.” (16:00, C)
• Cautious Optimism: However, ongoing regime repression threatens to fracture these alliances, and historic distrust lingers.

6. National Unity Government (NUG) and International Recognition

• NUG’s Challenges: Hastily formed, coalition-based, lacking deep mutual trust and long-term vision. Internal divisions and distrust from ethnic groups undermine legitimacy (18:24–22:26).
  • “NUG doesn’t necessarily command the support it claims to… One distinctive view among the thought warriors I interviewed: NUG is not to be trusted, it’s not going to be effective.” (20:39, C)
• International Factors: Western states distracted by crises elsewhere (Ukraine, Afghanistan), while regional powers prioritize other strategic interests over Burmese democracy.

7. ASEAN’s Fractured Response

• More Vocal, Still Divided: ASEAN condemned the coup more strongly than previous crises but remains split, with several member states unwilling to act forcefully (22:44–25:50).
  • “Asean… is not a paragon of democracy. We have authoritarian regimes in ASEAN, and they see trying to promote democratic change… will come back to haunt them.” (24:09, C)
• Strategic Hesitations: Fear of instability, external intervention, and Chinese influence restrains unified ASEAN action.

8. Prospects for Burma’s Future

• Outlook: Acharya’s “thought warriors” are divided between youthful optimism and fatalism; Acharya himself is cautious, noting regime attempts to “legitimize” through sham elections and ongoing support from neighbors like China and India (26:06–28:54).
  • “This is not going to be easy to reverse the coup… Burma’s big regional neighbors… are really not supporting the pro-democracy forces.” (27:32, C)

9. Writing for a Non-Academic Audience

• Crossover Book: Acharya describes the challenge of balancing scholarly rigor with accessible storytelling. He consciously addressed younger generations, intending the book as a resource and inspiration for Burma’s future leaders (29:29–32:44).
  • “This book…is more written, co-written in some ways with them… meant for the thought warriors, the younger generation who will decide the future of Burma.” (32:06, C)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 03:30 | C | "I would say I've visited Burma more than any other place in India, except my home state…" | | 07:22 | C | "They are not actual warriors. They renounce violence, they're nonviolent people, but at the same time they have ideas, emotions, visions..." | | 10:44 | C | “Once they got power and once they enjoyed the benefits of power, they did everything possible to stay in power and became a self-perpetuating dynamic.” | | 12:45 | C | “When the 2020 elections showed that the military-backed parties are basically decimated... there was an immediate fear in the military that this will lead to a long-term civilian takeover.” | | 16:00 | C | "This is a situation when the military regime is fighting the majority ... not just a minority. That creates a new situation ... an opportunity for long-term unity." | | 20:39 | C | "NUG doesn’t necessarily command the support it claims to… One distinctive view among the thought warriors I interviewed: NUG is not to be trusted, it’s not going to be effective." | | 24:09 | C | "Asean… is not a paragon of democracy. We have authoritarian regimes in ASEAN, and they see trying to promote democratic change… will come back to haunt them." | | 27:32 | C | "This is not going to be easy to reverse the coup… Burma’s big regional neighbors… are really not supporting the pro-democracy forces." | | 32:06 | C | "This book…is more written, co-written in some ways with them… meant for the thought warriors, the younger generation who will decide the future of Burma." |

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Background and Motivation – 02:00–04:24
• Research and the Thought Warriors – 04:25–08:11
• Why Democracy Failed in Burma – 08:11–12:14
• How Democracy Fell: The 2021 Coup – 12:14–14:35
• The New Democratic Alliance – 15:06–17:51
• Challenges for NUG and International Response – 17:51–22:26
• ASEAN’s Role and Limitations – 22:26–25:50
• Future Prospects for Burma – 25:50–28:54
• Writing for a General Audience – 28:54–32:44

Final Thoughts

Amitav Acharya’s Tragic Nation positions the voices and hopes of Burma’s young, nonviolent activists at the heart of the national narrative, while presenting a sobering, nuanced analysis of why military rule persists and the daunting obstacles to democratic change. He also champions the importance of bridging academic rigor with accessible writing, aiming to empower and inspire the next generation of Burmese leaders. This episode provides both scholarly insight and personal reflection, making clear the entanglement of hope, disillusionment, and the enduring struggle for a free Burma.