Podcast Summary: Interview with Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum, "Fight or Flight"

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Holly Gattery
Episode Air Date: December 6, 2025
Guest: Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum
Book Discussed: Fight or Flight (Stephen F. Austin State UP, 2023)

Episode Overview

In this rich, heartfelt interview, host Holly Gattery sits down with poet Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum to discuss his acclaimed poetry collection Fight or Flight. The conversation explores the deeply personal events that informed the book—most notably, McFadyen-Ketchum’s divorce and subsequent quest for healing and belonging as he wandered the wilds of America. They delve into the unique, narrative quality of his poems, discuss the intersection of personal experience and poetic voice, and reflect on trauma, humor, and the complicated process of self-repair through art. The episode brims with honesty, wit, and lessons about community, vulnerability, and the enduring power of poetry.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Genesis of "Fight or Flight"

• Origin Story (04:10–07:25)
  • The book was not planned chronologically and there wasn’t a single “instigating poem”.
  • McFadyen-Ketchum describes how, after a decade-long marriage ended abruptly on the anniversary itself, he embarked on a nomadic journey across America for self-healing:

    "I went on a camping trip...stayed in my tent in [Judy Jordan’s] yard...ended up in Los Osos, California and stayed in Utah at the Canyonlands National Park for a month in January. It was insane. It's just, just beautiful, just life changing vistas. Just—the views made me feel like I could survive." (05:12–06:17)

  • The poetry arose from this state of grief and survival, a "deep grief and just being honest about it."

Poetry and the Narrative of Survival

• Autobiography and Poetic Speaker (02:51–03:22)
  • McFadyen-Ketchum rejects the traditional distinction between poet and speaker:

    "I get a little tired of the whole 'the narrator is not the poet.' ... The speaker in the poems is me at 100%." (Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum, 02:51)

• Voice and Point of View (29:01–32:07)
  • Most poems are in the third person ("he"), which allowed the poet to feel both honest and detached, echoing the sense of an out-of-body experience after trauma.
  • This dual perspective creates a sense of witnessing one's own survival:

    "There was something about that third person point of view...it allowed me to be more honest. ... Watching myself navigate the world...each poem is just an act of survival." (Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum, 29:45/31:07)

Grappling with Brokenness: "Broken White Boy Heart"

• About the Poem (21:55–25:48)

  • The poem surfaces the tension of being a white man in pain, aware that society and even activist circles often discount that experience:

    "Here I am really suffering, and people are saying to me, your suffering doesn't matter, you know, And I'm like, well, I'm about to kill myself, so I don't know what you're talking about. ... If you're not going to accept that my pain is valid just because of the color of my skin and because you think I'm a man, that's a whole nother conversation, you know." (Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum, 22:56)

  • Writing poetry becomes a way to process grief instead of turning it outwards in destructive ways:

    "If everybody spent an hour a day or half an hour a day working on a poem, the world would be a beautiful, much safer place." (Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum, quoting Ted Kooser, 26:10)

• On Guilt and Self-Care (25:48–26:10)

  • The poem candidly negotiates the guilt of healing when others' suffering—even injustice—seems more valid or urgent.

• Memorable Listener Comment:

  "Imagine if every sad, angry white boy wrote a poem instead of taking it out on the world." (Holly's husband, 25:48)

Humor, Devotion, and Hope

• Humor as Self-Survival (19:54–21:55)
  • Even in dire poems, there is self-effacing humor:

    "Your poems are really peppered with this adorable humor...it's biting at your own expense. Like, it's not outward. It's an inward kind of violence almost." (Holly Gattery, 19:54)

• Devotion and Family (13:50–17:38)
  • The book’s epigraph—from The Last of the Mohicans—is tied to the poet’s devotion to his second wife, Karen, and her children:

    "No matter what happens, I'm going to find you because you're the one that I'm supposed to be with and these children are supposed to be my children. ... She and the kids saved me." (Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum, 13:50/17:03)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Poetry's Place in Society:

  "Poetry is in the basement of the art world. It's poetry is on a, on a forever camping trip after a divorce." (Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum, 10:43)

• On Book Awards and Recognition:

  "Honestly, one of my greatest accolades...is the first poem in the book was featured on the Slowdown, when Major Jackson was the curator...His insight into the poem was like, oh my gosh, he's totally right. It's totally about that. I had no idea." (Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum, 08:14–10:14)

• On Brokenness and Empathy:

  “On a level of humanity, everybody’s broken heart should eat up our empathy.” (Holly Gattery, 21:55)

Guest Readings

(Timestamps approximate due to edits and commercials)

"Broken White Boy Heart" ([35:05])

“Broken White Boy Heart / who knows how to write about love or its loss. And who cares, declares the voice in his head. Write about important things, anything, sweet Jesus, but yourself. Don't write about waking each morning from a dream with a gun...Trust me, the voice that inhabits him says stay silent. No one cares about your broken white boy heart.”
(Complete reading at 35:05–37:07)

"A Trio of Crows" ([40:44])

“A trio of crows followed him all that afternoon through the canyonlands of Utah's fiery furnace, a place people go to get lost because they believe they will be found. ... Is this all I desire, he wondered ... Is that all I need, he asked...”
(Complete reading at 40:44–41:58)

Community, Outreach, and Next Projects

Poem of the Week Project (43:10–50:48)

• Poemoftheweek.com curates and promotes contemporary poetry, spotlighting living poets.
• Began as an email list in 2006; now features poems, reviews, readings, and occasional interviews.
• 20th-anniversary anthology 100 Poems by 100 Poets is forthcoming February 2026.
• Assistant editors (including Holly) have broadened perspectives and aesthetic range.

• "It's probably the most significant anthology of 21st Century North American literature that's come out yet. ... It has a communal effort to gather all these poets in one place." (Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum, 49:09/50:26)

Upcoming Work ([51:43–56:37])

• Co-authoring a memoir with Dr. Stuart Lord about surviving and healing after childhood sexual abuse—focusing on trauma, reconciliation with family, and seeking justice.
• New poetry collection-in-progress titled Unsubscribe, addressing cultural malaise and the "failures" of communities and institutions:

  "In this book, I'm addressing the need to unsubscribe from all the nonsense ... it's sort of sardonic. It's a little bit angry. It's sort of funny. I don't think it's very good ... But I'm just very slowly writing about all of that in this sort of disastrous soup that I'm praying at some point turns into something reasonable." (Andrew McFadyen-Ketchum, 54:43–56:37)

Thematic Highlights

• Survival: The book traces not just survival after heartbreak but finding family and meaning "no matter how wrecked or wrapped its wings".
• Honesty and Contradiction: Both poet and host embrace contradiction and honesty, recognizing that poets often mythologize then return to truth in new work.
• The Role of Poetic Community: Through Poem of the Week and collaboration, McFadyen-Ketchum emphasizes the value of communal curation, support—and the hardships and repairs necessary after community failure.
• Humor and Grace: Humor becomes a salve for pain, and the show is imbued with gratitude, self-deprecation, and hopefulness.

Additional Resources and Contact

• Poem of the Week: poemoftheweek.com
  • Instagram: @poemoftheweek | @themeanderingpoet
• Book: Fight or Flight (Stephen F. Austin State University Press)—available wherever books are sold or borrowed.
• Anthology: 20 Years of Poem of the Week: 100 Poems by 100 Poets—coming February 2026 from Madville Press.

Closing Thoughts

This thoughtful and dynamic conversation explores the intersection of personal trauma, poetic craft, humor, and cultural critique. McFadyen-Ketchum’s openness illuminates how poetry can both bear witness to suffering and act as a vessel of resilience, humor, and hope. The dialogue navigates difficult subjects with empathy, candor, and plenty of practical wisdom for poets and readers alike.