New Books Network: "Authoritarian Ideas, Old and New: From Schmitt to 'JD'"

Date: September 24, 2025
Host: Eli Karetney (B)
Guest: Prof. Richard Wolin (CUNY Graduate Center)
Duration: ~1 hr 16 min

Overview

This episode of International Horizons, hosted by Eli Karetney, features Professor Richard Wolin, a leading scholar of 20th-century European intellectual history. The central theme is the intellectual genealogy and international spread of authoritarian and illiberal ideas — especially how Weimar-era German theorists (like Carl Schmitt and Oswald Spengler) and French reactionary thought underpin contemporary right-wing movements, from MAGA to the Online Right. The discussion traverses the continuum from interwar political theory to current figures such as Peter Thiel, J.D. Vance, and "Bronze Age Pervert" (BAP) — outlining how these once-marginal ideas are infiltrating liberal democracies and reshaping political mythologies today.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Key Figures: The Conservative Revolutionaries

• German Thinkers: Oswald Spengler, Carl Schmitt, Ernst Jünger, and Martin Heidegger are identified as pillars of the conservative revolutionary movement between the wars.

• These thinkers critiqued liberalism as decadent, championed "leader democracy," and often flirted with, or directly assisted, authoritarian regimes.

• Quote:

  "[Carl Schmitt] reconfigures democracy as plebiscitary democracy or leader democracy...The whole idea that you could have a meaningful democracy in the 20th century without any kinds of liberal safeguards...We’ve seen how that works out historically and it hasn’t worked out well at all." (C, 07:32)

• Schmitt’s Legacy: Schmitt is highlighted for his critique of parliamentary democracy and theorizing state of exception — influencing debates from the Weimar collapse to post-9/11 America.

• Gramscian Right: Contemporary right-wing intellectuals pursue a cultural hegemony strategy ("Gramscism of the right") by reviving these older texts (08:10).

• Spread and Influence: The "new right" is transnational (e.g., Russia's Dugin), and its thinkers are being republished and discussed in Anglophone right-wing circles.

2. Where Culture Meets Politics: German and French Critiques of Liberalism

• Spengler’s theory of decline and "Western decadence" became foundational for attacks on the equality enshrined in liberal democracy.
• Human Rights Critiqued: The right frames universal rights (whether French or American) as hollow ideology, with American conservatives like J.D. Vance explicitly rejecting the Declaration’s language of equality (10:40).
• Legalism vs. Leader: Fascist and reactionary movements derided "paper law" and legal formalism, seeing genuine authority as incompatible with constitutional constraints (13:43).

3. Distinctions and Overlaps: Conservative Revolutionaries vs. Nazis

• Overlap: Both shared anti-liberal, anti-democratic sentiments, but differed on emphasis—Nazis foregrounded race; conservative revolutionaries highlighted a "spiritual aristocracy" and ideals of the elite.
• Conflict: Some reactionaries viewed the Nazis as too plebeian and "unprincipled," critical of Hitler’s parliamentary route to power (18:55).

4. French Literary Fascism and the Great Replacement

• In France, figures like Charles Maurras and Louis-Ferdinand Céline linked authoritarian politics to broader literary and cultural movements.
• The postwar Nouvelle Droite channeled colonial resentment (notably after Algerian decolonization) into fearmongering about immigration, inverting postcolonial criticism into “reverse racism” and developing the "Great Replacement" theory (31:00).
• Jean Raspail's Camp of the Saints is cited as a literary touchstone for the far right, linked to Steve Bannon and others.

5. From Europe to MAGA: The New (Old) Myths in American Politics

• Transmission: These ideas — especially “replacement” panic, and critiques of equality — are mapped onto American right-wing ideologues (e.g., Tucker Carlson) and movements like MAGA.

• MAGA & Masculinism: Figures such as BAP/Bronze Age Pervert openly advocate a Nietzschean "aristocratic" ideal, aiming to radicalize young men (35:00).

• The right’s “starter pack” reading list includes Nietzsche, Céline, Mishima, and Jünger, linking fascistic ideals to a valorization of martial masculinity (36:12).

• Quote:

  "Mishima is really a saint and a go-to figure in the manosphere online and among the men's movement..." (C, 37:00)

• Cult of the Male Brotherhood: This “men’s movement” (Männerbund) is both historically rooted (German youth culture, Freikorps) and newly weaponized against feminism and social equality, dovetailing with anti-feminist, incel, and incipiently misogynist politics on the US right (42:40).

• Quote (re. JD Vance):

  "That dictum by J.D. Vance that came up so often in the 2024 electoral campaign — that, you know, men have to wake up; they're being ruled by childless cat women." (C, 41:38)

6. Straussianism, Denial, and Recruitment of the Intellectual Right

• Michael Anton's Ambivalence: Anton, now in a high State Department role, had a key (if disingenuous) role popularizing BAP, while playing a Straussian double game — admiring but publicly distancing from overt fascism (44:16–47:30).
• The strategy: Use radical ideas as a recruitment tool for politically alienated college-age men, stoking cultural grievance to drive them to MAGA and the new right (49:06).
• Quote:

  "They’re very astute in realizing that one of the keys to making Trump successful...was to really try to reach younger college age men with ideas who felt at some level challenged by sexual equality and feminism..." (C, 49:14)

7. Contemporary Appeals to "Warrior Ethos" and Germanic Myth

• BAP’s “brotherhoods of men” (Männerbund) recycle the imagery and values of Jünger’s Storm of Steel and the German "forest rebel" as a model for contemporary political resistance and masculine virtue (51:01–56:00).

• This figures the extreme right as oppositional warriors fleeing decadent liberal society for a mythic wilderness — echoing not just German nationalism but a broader Western "aristocratic revolt against modernity."

• Quote:

  "The point of reference became the community of the trenches...then after the war, the so-called Freikorps, these veterans who...sought battles against communists...the aspirations of their generation that were kindled by Jünger’s glorification of combat, you know, was the Third Reich." (C, 52:07)

8. Peter Thiel, J.D. Vance, and the Apocalyptic Turn

• Thiel's Ideological Debt:
  Thiel is explicit in his admiration for Schmitt and Spengler, even quoting Spengler's call for "Caesarism" (i.e., dictatorship) untranslated in his writings — a Straussian tactic of signaling to select readers (61:18).

• Thiel’s narrative pits liberalism as weak, favoring strong, authoritarian responses to perceived civilizational crisis (57:29–62:00).

• Thiel and the State of Exception:

  "Thiel's reading of Schmidt and Strauss...is a justification of the state of exception and secret services who operate beneath the radar to do their duty. I think he's enamored of Schmidt's notion of the state of exception and he's very critical...of the response of the Western democracies to 9/11, the lack of agreement. Even the Bush administration, Thiel feels, is too timorous." (C, 60:30)

• Thiel, The Antichrist, and Apocalyptic Rhetoric:
  Thiel is now giving private lectures on the Antichrist, invoking themes of holy war and final confrontation (“Armageddon”) — spectral echoes of Schmitt’s "political theology," the friend/enemy distinction, and the politics of existential crisis (69:28).

• Quote:

  "Some of the themes in terms of the Antichrist...are related to a figure that's highly Schmittian, the notion of political theology. And Schmidt does address these themes...the catacomb is described as some presumably secular, this-worldly force that stays the hand or the triumph of the Antichrist..." (C, 69:37)

• Contemporary Resonance: This apocalyptic, existential rhetoric justifies both ideological radicalism and the suspension of legal norms — directly echoing interwar precedents and mirroring "replacement" and holy war narratives in alt-right and Christian nationalist milieux (73:00).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Schmitt’s Return:

  "The fact that it's back in vogue now, not just in the US but...in European and Western democracies...is quite alarming." (C, 08:02)

• On Declarations of Equality:

  "JD Vance said this explicitly in his Claremont Institute talk...what good is a piece of paper?" (C, 11:02)

• On the New Right Literary Canon:

  "Mishima is really a saint and a go-to figure in the manosphere online and among the men's movement..." (C, 37:00)

• On Masculinist Politics:

  "Much of this is sheer provocation, but still certainly needs to be taken seriously...it's intensely ideological...conducive to false consciousness about what other people are and how one individuates oneself as a person or as a male." (C, 42:55)

• On the Use of Schmitt & Spengler by Thiel:

  "Shockingly, at one point [Thiel] quotes...Spengler's Decline of the West...an appeal for Caesarism...But he also leaves it in the original German, which I found both fascinating and disturbing. Because this is kind of a Straussian move." (C, 61:18)

• On Thiel’s Political Theology:

  "There's a very common...Spenglerian aspect to the discourse of cultural criticism on the part of the American right...that believe that contemporary society, American society, American liberalism especially is entirely decadent. And so you need strong medicine and authority..." (C, 71:40)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:11–02:53: Introduction of Richard Wolin and the episode’s theme.
• 03:27–08:56: German conservative revolutionaries, critique of liberalism, Schmitt’s legacy.
• 09:41–16:53: Cultural critiques (Spengler), German legal and philosophical anti-liberal currents; comparison to today’s US right.
• 17:31–22:57: Conservative revolutionaries vs. Fascists & Nazis: similarities and differences.
• 23:52–29:17: French literary fascism, Action Française, antisemitism, and monarchism.
• 30:04–34:20: Nouvelle Droite, immigration, decolonization, and the rise of Replacement theory.
• 34:20–44:16: BAP, the manosphere, new right masculinity, “conversion package.”
• 44:16–51:01: Michael Anton, Claremont Institute, Straussian tactics, right-wing youth recruitment.
• 51:01–57:29: Jünger, men’s brotherhood, forest rebel, mythic masculinity.
• 57:29–66:34: Peter Thiel, J.D. Vance, the MAGA future; the “Caesarist” turn, the state of exception, Thiel’s Straussian signaling.
• 66:34–76:16: Thiel’s lectures on the Antichrist, political theology, apocalyptic strategy in the American right.

Concluding Reflections

Professor Wolin’s discussion elucidates the deep intellectual, literary, and mythological roots of new authoritarian movements: how European interwar reactionaries provided a conceptual arsenal for today’s anti-liberal, anti-democratic right; how their ideas are filtered through new media, reshaping generational identities and fueling both elite and grassroots authoritarianism across borders. The episode closes with warnings about the appropriation of these motifs by kingmakers like Peter Thiel and their eerie relevance as illiberalism gains ground.

Recommended for listeners who want:

• An accessible yet profound intellectual history of illiberal ideas
• Context for current right-wing ideologies’ literary, philosophical, and cultural ancestry
• Insight into how elite and online culture converge in the contemporary crisis of democracy