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Barry G. Webb, "Job: Evangelical Biblical Theology Commentary" (Lexham Academic, 2023)
00:20:17
An interview with Barry G. Webb
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- [00:00]
A
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B
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C
The Book of Job confronts the troubling issues that life throws at us as we try to live in trusting obedience to God. How do we live in relation to God when we don't have answers for all of life's problems? Join us as we speak with Barry Webb about his recent commentary on Job, a book that reveals a God we can trust even in our darkest moments. With detailed exegesis and biblical theological synthesis, Webb explores Job's unique theology of creation and evil, wisdom, justice, redemption and God's character, tracing these themes across the canon. You're listening to New Books and Biblical Studies, a channel of the New Books Network, and I'm your host, Michael Morales. Barry G. Webb is Senior Research Fellow Emeritus and Old Testament at Moore Theological College in Newtown, Australia. His other Books include the Book of Judges and Five Festal Garments. Barry, welcome to New Books and Biblical Studies.
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D
Hi there. I'm glad to be here.
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C
So tell us Barry, about yourself and how you came to study and write on the Book of Job.
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D
Well, I'm married to Alison. We have three children, three daughters, six grandchildren. I taught at a Bible college, you'd probably call it a seminary in Sydney here in Australia for about 30 years. I was head of the Old Testament department there for about half that time. And as part of that I did some teaching on the Book of Job. I have never published anything on the Book of Job apart from this book, but been thinking about it for a long time. And so I got approach from a publisher who asked if I'd contribute a commentary on Job to a series that they were launching. And that's about the story Michael started about 10 years ago, I think, and on and off I've been working on it. Yeah.
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C
What would you say is the main message of Job?
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D
Well, I, if I could I just read you a little bit. It's actually a while since I finished this of Commentary and I don't have it all in my memory very, very clearly. I joke with people sometimes and say, just give me a moment. I'll find out what I think by looking up one of my books. But this is what I said about the message, or the take out message they call it here. Be wise. Don't let undeserved suffering turn you against God as Satan hopes it will. There are good reasons to believe God is sovereign, merciful and just. And the outcome if you endure will be vindication and blessing. So that's what I think Take out messages. I think it's the task of the Christian preacher to set that message in the context of the Christian gospel. But that's just the book, I think, as speaking on it with its own voice.
- [04:52]
C
Barry, how long did it take you to research and write this commentary and what was your biggest challenge along the way?
- [04:59]
D
Well, you know about the 10 years I mentioned on and off while I was doing lots of other things, but I guess I had a personal challenge. It wasn't long before I, after I started working on this book that I was diagnosed with cancer, an aggressive form of blood cancer. And I'm still living with that. So as I was writing on Job, I was going through a difficult period of my life. And so at times there was a challenge for me to keep going as my mind was affected by the treatment and so on. But as for the book itself, it's A profound book, and. It's very hard to reduce it to a single theme. And I guess the complexity of it was the main challenge to me. And then conscious that I was writing for Christian audience, and particularly students of the Bible and pastors in particular, how to preach Christianly from this book in a way that will not wear people out in repetition, but delivered to them some of the riches of the book. So I was constantly thinking about that all the way through, and it was actually part of the brief I was given to approach it with that in mind. So that's a general account, I guess, of some of the challenges I faced. Yeah, there are particularly difficult passages that you struggle with, but always, you know, like every part of Scripture, it yields its riches, you know, if you hang in there prayerfully.
- [07:09]
C
Job is a long book with lots of dialogues. How would you suggest one preaches through it?
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D
Well, I've done a lot of preaching in my life. I've never actually been the pastor of a church, but I've done a lot of preaching. But I find that people can tolerate a series of seven to 10, and they start to weary of it after that. I'm very committed to expository preaching, but I think the Old Testament has to be approached a little differently from the New Testament because it does have very long and complex books. I'd go for a sermon series of seven to 10, I think, on Job. And being aware of how it's structured is very, very helpful here. And I'd want to sample each of its major parts. I would probably preach on chapters one and two. I think that's manageable in a single sermon, but you may like to highlight a particular part of it. I would include Job's opening speech to see his starting point in talking to his friends. Then I think I'd deal with a sermon on the highlights of what Job's three friends are saying, sampling each of their speeches, and then the highlights of what Job is saying in response. I'd certainly do a sermon on chapter 28, which I think is critical. It's a poem about where wisdom is to be found. And it ends with the. With the conclusion, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. And I think that's telling you there's a wisdom we can't have that only God has. But there is a wisdom that's available to us, and that's to fear him and turn away from evil. And so I'd be saying from that, that wisdom in the end is not cognitive. It's not actually knowing things about God, but it's relational. It's a certain attitude towards God of deep reverence, a fear in a godly sense that causes us to turn away from what dishonors him and what is displeasing to him. I'd want to spend time there because that's where the book begins. Job is one who fears God and turns away from evil. We're told that right at the beginning. And that's the point he returns to at the end in his repentance, where he says, I've said things that weren't appropriate for a man to say. I repent in dust and ashes. He's aware that although he's been basically right, he has overstepped the mark at certain points and he's spoken inappropriately and he takes his place before God humbly again and without having his questions answered. So I'd certainly want to deal with that. God's speeches from the whirlwind and Job's response. And then I'd have a sermon, I think, at the end, on Job's final blessedness. So that's about that. There'll be seven. You could easily expand it to 10 by including a few more highlights from Job's speeches. I think so, yeah. I think that, you see, you could preach topically from it in this book. I have, near the beginning, a list of sort of themes or big issues that are touched on, like God, creation, repentance, divine justice, revelation, redemption, mediation, Satan, suffering and comfort. And you could do a topical series. But I'd like people to journey with Job actually, and experience the struggle that he goes through, if you know what I mean. And so I'm more inclined to work my way through the book, but sampling its major sections.
- [12:08]
C
How would you relate the message of Job within a Christian context?
- [12:12]
D
Well, I think the New Testament gives us a great lead there. And in the Book of James, chapter 5, verse 11, I think that's the only place in the New Testament where Job is referred to by name. And James says, you've heard of the endurance of Job and you've seen the end that God brought about, that God is merciful, compassionate. And so he's saying that in the context of a passage. She's talking about the endurance we need as we wait for the second coming of Christ, you know, and that will be the moment of, if you like, of vindication, when he owns us as his servants. But the thing is that the Book of Job is about undeserved suffering. And that's where it's. It's different from The Book of Proverbs, for example. You know, the Book of Proverbs says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. And that holds good generally through life. But when you're faced with undeserved suffering for which no one has answers, even your closest friends, and when God seems silent, how do you remain wise in those circumstances? And the difference between Job and his friends is, and they're doing their best, and we'd have to give them credit, that they came to him and they sat silent for seven days. But then they started to try and fix him. And they drew on their theology, such as it was. But they failed to listen well enough and to understand that Job's case just was unique. And so they ended up hurting him in the cause of really defending their theological position. But Job kept saying, he's wounded me without cause. And, you know, God had said at the beginning, why, Satan have you incited me? You've seen my servant Job. Why have you incited. You incited me to afflict him without cause. And Job didn't hear that, but that's what he's saying all through his speech, is that God is afflicting me without cause. He's not saying he's perfect. He talks of the sins of his youth and everything. But this man, you see, the friends talk about God, but Job keeps talking to God. And Job knows in the end, if there is an answer, it's got to come from God. It's not going to come from anywhere else. No one else has the answer. And he keeps talking to God. And eventually God answers him, but he doesn't answer him in the way Job was demanding that he answer him. He didn't tell him why he was suffering, but he treated him as a friend and he honored him. He vindicated him before his friends, and he owned him as his servant. And Job found that God was enough for him. He didn't need to know everything that God knew. He could trust God with what was beyond him as a man. And so here's the point. You're wondering whatever I'm going to get there. But this man, he's a true servant of God. And he suffers not for wrong that he has done, but he becomes the battleground between God and Satan.
- [16:29]
C
And.
- [16:30]
D
And this man, by his endurance, proves that Satan is a liar. And he brings glory to God in Job's own suffering as a battleground between good and evil, between God and Satan. And by his endurance, by keeping his face towards God and crying out to God, he defeats Satan. Satan disappears by the end of chapter two, he's still not there by the end, but Job's there. And of course I don't think Job's suffering is redemptive as Jesus is, but his victory over Satan is a very real and significant one. Here's the message for Christians as we wait out our final vindication. When Christ comes, that will be the moment of our vindication. But every time we endure for Christ, we continue to look to him, despite what our friends say, what Satan whispers in our ears, that's a victory over Satan. That's a victory over Satan. And so we are part of Christ's victory. He wins the final victory. He won it on the cross where he suffered for sins not his own and his, you know, we'll see far final outcome of that when he comes again. But unjust suffering is hard to endure. But if we endure it, we are sharing in Christ's victory over Satan. That's a wonderful encouragement, I think, for every Christian.
- [18:23]
C
So, Barry, are you working on any other writing projects you can tell us about?
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D
Well, no, actually I began working on a commentary on Deuteronomy for another publisher and I read 100 something pages on it. But my health has deteriorated. I'm having another battle with cancer and I'm under treatment again and I just found I didn't have the ability to continue to do the kind of works necessary on a major commentary. And so I've stopped working on that. The publisher's looking for someone else who might finish that and if so, it would come out in under joint names. But I think this commentary is probably my last published works, so God knows, but that's where I am at the moment. Yeah.
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C
Mary, it's been a delight to spend time with you reflecting on the Book of Job. Thank you for joining us.
- [19:38]
D
Lovely meeting you, Michael. It's great we can talk like this across the globe, isn't it? And it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much, Michael.
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C
Friends, thank you for listening to New Books and Biblical Studies, a channel of the New Books Network. Until next time, goodbye.