Podcast Summary

Overview

Episode Title:
Interview with Brooke Kroeger, author of "Undaunted: How Women Changed American Journalism"
Podcast:
New Books Network, “New Books in Women’s History”
Host:
Jane Semeka
Guest:
Brooke Kroeger (Professor Emerita, NYU; journalist; author)
Air Date:
January 2, 2026

Main Theme:
An in-depth conversation about Brooke Kroeger’s new book, “Undaunted: How Women Changed American Journalism” (Knopf, 2023), exploring how women have shaped American journalism from the 1840s to the present. The discussion spans the evolution, setbacks, breakthroughs, and ongoing challenges faced by women journalists, focusing on stories both famous and unsung, and analyzing the structural forces in play across 180 years of media history.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Genesis and Structure of the Book

• Book Origin: Kroeger was approached to write the book, not her initial idea. She was seen as uniquely qualified due to her combined academic and practical journalism background.

  “Actually I was asked to write this book, so it was not my idea. It came from the editor...he was looking for such a book and could not find one.” (03:35, Kroeger)

• Updating the Canon: The book is a modern successor to Ishbel Ross’s 1936 “Ladies of the Press,” updating the history through the present and focusing on the continuum of women’s experiences rather than just profiles or “seminal figures.”

• Chronological Structure:

  • Book covers 1840s-present, emphasizing the importance of seeing the trajectory of women’s participation as a living continuum.
  • Kroeger applied a consistent methodology, researching “women and journalism” by decade to see what (and who) surfaced.
  • “Seeing this history as a continuum...was revelatory to me.” (04:35, Kroeger)

2. Restoring Women to Journalism’s History

• Recovery vs. Overcorrection:

  • Kroeger questions the value of “recovery for recovery’s sake,” advocating for a nuanced approach that prioritizes meaningful, illustrative stories.

  “Recovery for recovery's sake is not really a value, but it should be thought about very carefully...is it telling us something? Is it helping our history along?” (08:00, Kroeger)

  • Early journalism histories often overlooked women—even very significant ones.

• Impact for Students and Readers:

  • Host shares an anecdote about being awakened to the absence of women journalists on the front page as a student, underscoring the psychological impact of representation (06:54, Semeka).

3. Deciding Who to Include: Method and Examples

• 12 Big Questions: Kroeger devised a set of key questions, including “How did they get in the door?” as a repeated lens for inclusion.

• Highlighting Unsung Figures:

  • Example: Anne Stringer, WWII reporter, whose personal story and professional achievements were “cinematic” and representative of the barriers women overcame.
  • Dorothy Thompson, “the Beyoncé of journalism of the 1930s,” once so widely recognized but later forgotten—her prominence justified recovery.

• Advance the Big Theme: Every story selected is intended to illustrate broader patterns rather than glorify individuals for their own sake.

  “Every story is meant to advance the big theme, and that is more important than the individual to whom it is happening.” (17:36, Kroeger)

• Abolition Press as a Platform:

  • Highlighted how, in the mid-1800s, the abolitionist press offered unique, if poorly paid, opportunities for women as it sought new talent and could afford to exploit willing contributors.

4. Exclusions and Focus

• Mainstream vs. Women's Pages:
  • Book spotlights women who did “men’s jobs,” consciously excluding most “women’s page” journalists not out of lack of respect but to focus on those breaking into hard news, editing, and leadership roles.
  • Exception: Charlotte Curtis, who revolutionized women’s pages at the New York Times, making them central to newsroom power (19:53, Kroeger).
• Black Press and Marginalized Voices:
  • The scope leans toward mainstream press, with some mention of segregated or marginalized spaces when illustrative of the main narrative.

5. Lessons and Patterns

• Recurring Progress and Backlash:

  • Women's advances in journalism frequently follow a "progress, setback" pattern—gaining ground only to be stalled or reversed by societal shifts or crises.

  “A theme of this continuum is progress, setback, push, pull.” (39:54, Kroeger)

• Women as ‘Crisis Managers’:

  • Women are often placed in top roles when institutions are facing trouble, a double-edged phenomenon seen repeatedly across eras.

• Barriers and Stereotypes:

  • Early women journalists faced both practical and cultural obstacles: needing chaperones, constrictive clothing, and persistent doubts about their intellectual capability.

• Exceptional vs. Merely Excellent:

  • “Really exceptional” women were able to break through—others as (or more) talented than their male peers but a step below “genius” faced greater obstacles.

  “The women, really exceptional, really exceptional, like Margaret Fuller...have never been held back...but women who are like maybe one cut below ... do not get that opportunity.” (33:40, Kroeger)

6. Transformative Contributions

• Diversity and Perspective:
  • The inclusion of women brought different perspectives; women influenced content, methods (e.g., feature writing, profile/interview forms), and even newsroom policies (e.g., ending fashion descriptions of female politicians).
• Notable Figures and Impact:
  • Nellie Bly and the rise of “stunt journalism” opened the news pages to women via investigative, often socially-minded exploits.
  • Ida Tarbell and Ida B. Wells advanced investigative journalism and documentary rigor—Tarbell on monopolies, Wells on lynching—drawing from their own life context (“visceral ways”).
• Networking as Survival and Success:
  • From Margaret Fuller (with help from Emerson and Greeley families) onward, strategic networking was as essential as talent for women to gain opportunities.

  “One of the huge ones is the importance of networking, which you see from Margaret Fuller straight through.” (22:34, Kroeger)

7. The 1960s: A Turning Point

• Journalists-Turned-Activists:
  • Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinem started as journalists, then shifted to activism. Kroeger’s book is not about their activist phases, but their journalism roots are significant.
  • The “Bunny Story” (Gloria Steinem’s undercover work) is contrasted with Barbara Walters’ earlier, fluffier version—a revealing window into the gender politics of the time.

    “When she does the Bunny story...people kept offering more and more prurient stories to do. It just wasn’t doing for her career what she had hoped.” (36:14, Kroeger)

  • Civil Rights Era context: Equates women’s “progress-backlash” dynamic to the cycles seen in broader civil rights history.

8. Contemporary Era / Ongoing Challenges

• Women in Leadership Today:
  • Now, many news organizations are led by women, but this sometimes correlates with periods of industry crisis.

    “When women come to the fore, things fall apart...Women are brought in when things are in crisis.” (40:05, Kroeger)

• Digital Harassment:
  • Kroeger highlights that present-day female journalists face gendered online harassment far worse than men, sometimes extending to threats against family and physical safety (41:10, Kroeger).
• Field in Flux:
  • Rising numbers of female bylines attributed in part to changing economics and status of the industry—“the alpha males aren’t coming to the field, they’re going to do something else” (43:14, Kroeger).
• Persistent Need for Attention to Gender:
  • Despite evolving identities and questions about gender categories, backlash and disproportionate hostility show that the issue remains current and urgent.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

On Book's Purpose

"It's really designed to tell the history of women in the field...but they're showing up because they're examples of what is happening decade by decade by decade." (03:54, Kroeger)

On What Makes a Story Worth Including

"Every story is meant to advance the big theme, and that is more important than the individual to whom it is happening." (17:36, Kroeger)

On Women's Pages

"This book, to be completely crass, is about women who are doing men's jobs, jobs men would envy at a time when women were not supposed to be holding those positions to a large extent." (19:14, Kroeger)

On Women’s Strategies for Success

"No matter how ingenious they were, no matter how talented, they had to know how to work a newsroom or how to cultivate the editors who were in a position to help them. And these women were masterful at this." (22:34, Kroeger)

On Patterns in History

“A theme of this continuum is progress, setback, push, pull.” (39:54, Kroeger)

On Crisis and Representation

"Every time...a company is failing economically, suddenly a woman's in charge. I mean, this has been happening for a long time." (40:05, Kroeger)

On Gendered Backlash Online

"If you're a woman...you have your face photoshopped onto a pornographic beast and threats to rape your children. I mean, that's the difference." (41:10, Kroeger)

On Lasting Exclusion

“In the early journalism histories, women are pretty much left out, and even some very important women are left out.” (08:00, Kroeger)

On Journalism, Not Advocacy

"So, from the standpoint of this book, I'm no longer interested in them when that happens because they're activists...traditional journalists by definition are not involved with advocacy unless they're working for the advocacy press." (35:06, Kroeger)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Segment | |--------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:25 – 06:05| Kroeger’s background and genesis of the book | | 06:05 – 10:57| The concept of “recovery” and the challenge of restoring women to journalism’s history | | 11:17 – 19:11| How figures were chosen; structure and illustrative stories (Anne Stringer, Dorothy Thompson, etc.) | | 19:14 – 21:56| The women’s pages, the black press, and intentional boundaries for focus | | 22:04 – 24:17| Intended audience, subliminal career advice, and the importance of networking | | 26:12 – 33:40| How women changed journalism: contributions, setbacks, persistent stereotypes | | 34:21 – 39:37| The 1960s: Steinem, Friedan, activism, and contemporaneous context | | 39:50 – 44:00| Women in journalism today: leadership, patterns, backlash, and digital harassment |

Tone and Style

The conversation is lively, direct, and thoughtful—full of detailed storytelling, critical reflection, and the plainspoken confidence of two experienced educators. Kroeger’s responses are highly informed, sometimes wry, and forthrightly analytical about the recurring ironies and struggles women face in journalism.

Memorable Moments

• Cinematic WWII Story: Anne Stringer's journey from personal loss to frontline reporting as a “Rhine maiden” (16:58–17:30).
• The Bunny Story Double-take: Kroeger’s discovery that Barbara Walters did a far fluffier Playboy Bunny report just before Steinem’s iconic expose—giving a richer context for evaluating Steinem’s legacy (36:14–39:37).
• Uncomfortable Pattern: Kroeger’s candid warning about the correlation of having women at the helm of troubled news organizations (40:05–41:10).
• On Modern Trolling: Kroeger draws a chilling comparison between the kinds of harassment men and women journalists now face online (41:10).

Final Thoughts

Brooke Kroeger's "Undaunted" is positioned as both an essential history and a practical reflection on how gender, skill, and opportunity intersect in media. The book, and this podcast episode, reveal not just the heroines and milestones, but the persistent structural realities undergirding journalism’s evolution—and its setbacks. Listeners come away with a sense of the field’s fragility, the creativity and grit of women working within and against longstanding constraints, and the sobering truth that vigilance against exclusion and backlash is forever necessary.