Podcast Summary: New Books Network – Charles Higham on "Early Southeast Asia: From First Humans to First Civilizations"

Date: December 1, 2025
Host: Patrick Jory
Guest: Prof. Charles Higham
Episode Theme: A deep dive into the archaeology and prehistory of Southeast Asia, spanning from the earliest human arrivals to the emergence of complex states and civilizations, as explored in Charles Higham’s newly revised book.

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Patrick Jory interviews Professor Charles Higham, a pioneering archaeologist of Southeast Asia. They discuss Higham's revised book "Early Southeast Asia: From First Humans to First Civilizations," which synthesizes nearly 2 million years of history, from the dawn of humanity through to the Angkorian civilization. New discoveries, the impact of climate change, technological advancements (especially DNA and lidar), and breakthroughs in understanding human migration, societal development, and the emergence of states are among the highlights.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Charles Higham’s Journey into Southeast Asian Archaeology

[03:06–08:03]

• Higham recounts his serendipitous path into Southeast Asia, starting from Europe, arriving in New Zealand after a failed job interview in the UK, and being drawn to Thai archaeological sites via his expertise in animal bones.
• Collaboration with major figures like Wilhelm Solheim and subsequent fieldwork in Thailand opened new horizons, as Higham notes:

  "It was, as I say, various crossroads. One crossroads was at Birmingham University, from which I turned sharply right, and the next crossroads was arriving in New Zealand and happening to be asked to look at some animal bones that led to my first field season that began in December 1969." (07:23)

2. The Book’s Scope and What’s New in the Latest Edition

[08:03–11:33]

• The book is praised for its vivid illustrations and maps, with Higham crediting publisher Nerissa Chakrabong for her commitment to rich visuals.
• Major new data have emerged in the last decade—especially with technologies like lidar revealing Angkor’s scale and structure.
• Higham emphasizes the constant state of discovery in Southeast Asian prehistory:

  "Ten years is a long time. In the prehistory of Southeast Asia, new discoveries are flooding in." (09:06)

3. Arrival and Evolution of Early Humans in Southeast Asia

[11:33–19:08]

• Homo erectus and perhaps even earlier species like Homo habilis began arriving roughly 2 million years ago, following migratory corridors from Africa.
• The "hobbit" (Homo floresiensis) and Homo luzonensis present fascinating evolutionary puzzles; we don’t yet know if they coexisted with Homo sapiens.
• Higham asserts the African origin of our species, but stresses Southeast Asia’s crucial role in early human dispersion.

4. Success and Extinction of Homo erectus

[15:52–17:54]

• Homo erectus were “incredibly successful,” possibly surviving in the region until 150,000 years ago.
• On extinction:

  “It is conceivable… that they did overlap with expanding anatomically modern humans, and if not, then with the notable new species that has now appeared on the scene known as Denisovans.” (16:58)

• DNA analysis may carry traces of unknown humans, possibly including Homo erectus.

5. Impact of Dramatic Climate Change

[17:54–19:08]

• Around 12,000 years ago, rapid sea level rise transformed Southeast Asia’s coastlines:

  “There has been then a whole series of huge changes in the habitat, in the climate and where people could live and where they went.” (18:46)

• Much Paleolithic archaeology is now submerged.

6. Arrival of Anatomically Modern Humans & the Role of Denisovans

[19:08–24:09]

• Modern Homo sapiens arrived possibly as early as 120,000 years ago, certainly by 50,000.
• Southeast Asia became a melting pot, with Denisovan DNA persisting in some modern peoples (New Guinea, parts of the Philippines, Australia).
• Higham explains:

  “…there must have been introgression and meeting between two different humans in Southeast Asia.” (21:12)

• Earliest known art in Sulawesi pre-dates European cave paintings.

7. Unraveling the Denisovan Mystery

[24:09–29:15]

• Higham’s son Tom is deeply involved in Denisova Cave excavations; they’ve used cutting-edge DNA analysis to identify not only Denisovans but also hybrids with Neanderthals.
• On what DNA can tell us:

  “The people living today in New Guinea and in parts of the Philippines and in Australia do have a small fraction of Denisovan genes...” (24:59)

8. Archaeological Terminologies: The "Three Age System" in Context

[29:15–34:57]

• Higham clarifies that European “Stone–Bronze–Iron Age” terms are useful scaffolding but can be misleading across regions (e.g., Chinese Neolithic applies to pottery–making hunter-gatherers).
• The spread of farming (particularly rice and millet) from the Yangtze and Yellow River valleys transformed populations and societies.
• DNA and burial evidence trace the migration of early farmers into Southeast Asia.

9. The Bronze Age: Technology and Social Change

[34:57–40:42]

• Early claims of a super-ancient Bronze Age have been disproven; Higham and his son’s dating puts it around 1100 BC.
• Metal artifacts (axes, jewelry) signified elite status, as shown by "super burials" with wealth unimaginable in earlier periods.

  “...when bronze came in, it was one of the artifacts, along with shell and marble jewelry, that was used to advertise the exalted elite aggrandizing status of a section of the community in a Bronze Age site.” (39:53)

10. The Iron Age and the Road to Early States

[40:42–44:52]

• Iron arrived via both Indian Ocean and Chinese contacts (maritime and overland).
• The technology enabled not just violence but major agricultural expansion—clearing forests, irrigating rice fields—setting the stage for state formation.
• On climate adaptation:

  “…the Iron Age people reacted with decisive enterprise by building banks around their large town settlements to create moat reservoirs and feed water into their rice fields.” (43:45)

11. The Rise of the First States

[44:52–48:06]

• State formation accelerated by contact with India (writing, Buddhism, Hindu cosmology, brick technology).
• Indigenous leaders became Southeast Asia’s first “god-kings.”
• Multiple centers of statehood emerged simultaneously: the Lower Mekong (Oc Eo, Funan), Northeast Thailand (with rich rice lands), Red River (Dong Son culture), and Burma (Pyus).

12. Lidar and the Transformation of Our Understanding of Angkor

[48:06–52:02]

• Lidar imaging has mapped Angkor’s true scale, revealing city grids, water management, and living communities hidden under jungle.

  “…when you run lidar across Angkor Thom or Angkor Wat…you get from your computer screen…an amazing plan of the city. You can see the streets, you can see the pools where people bathe. You can see the mounds where people have their houses…” (49:06)

• Angkor Wat, once thought a mausoleum, was home to a vibrant living community.

13. The Role of Climate in Angkor’s Decline

[52:02–55:20]

• Shifting monsoons and water management crises undermined Angkor’s infrastructure.
• Post-collapse, civilization persisted:

  “Angkor was never officially [dead] … the civilization of Angkor never died when Angkor itself ceased to be the capital. It continues vigorously to this day.” (54:57)

14. Continuity from Prehistory to Modern Populations

[55:20–57:29]

• Modern Southeast Asian genomes carry signals from ancient hunter-gatherers, Neolithic farmers, and later migrants.
• Cultural and linguistic diversity reflects this deep intermixing, as with the Thai and Mon peoples:

  “…when you look at the DNA of modern Thai people, you'll find that there is infusion there. There is a continuation of Mon people as well…” (56:39)

15. Higham’s Current Research: Using DNA to Reconstruct Prehistoric Societies

[57:29–61:21]

• Higham and teams are now extracting DNA from a single Iron Age settlement (Nong Ban Jack), enabling unprecedented insights into kinship, social structure, and population change.
• He hopes to overturn the view that ancient social organization can never be reconstructed:

  “If you try to get the social organization out of a prehistoric people, you're doomed. You'll never do it. But I think with DNA we can.” (60:41)

Notable Quotes with Attribution and Timestamps

• On first fieldwork and serendipitous career path:
  “It was, as I say, various crossroads. One crossroads was at Birmingham University, from which I turned sharply right, and the next crossroads was arriving in New Zealand and happening to be asked to look at some animal bones that led to my first field season…”
  – Charles Higham (07:23)

• On the pace of archaeological discovery:
  “Ten years is a long time. In the prehistory of Southeast Asia, new discoveries are flooding in.”
  – Charles Higham (09:06)

• On the role of DNA in rewriting prehistory:
  “DNA is at the moment turning our prehistory on its head, actually, because one thing you can't really argue, you can't argue with DNA…”
  – Charles Higham (16:54)

• On new technologies transforming archaeological research:
  “…when you run lidar across Angkor Thom or Angkor Wat…you get from your computer screen…an amazing plan of the city. You can see the streets, you can see the pools where people bathe. You can see the mounds where people have their houses…”
  – Charles Higham (49:06)

• On understanding cultural continuity:
  “…when you look at the DNA of modern Thai people, you'll find that there is infusion there. There is a continuation of Mon people as well…”
  – Charles Higham (56:39)

• On new research into kinship and community:
  “If you try to get the social organization out of a prehistoric people, you're doomed. You'll never do it. But I think with DNA we can.”
  – Charles Higham (60:41)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-------------|----------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:06-08:03 | Higham’s career origins and first arrival in Southeast Asia | | 08:03-11:33 | Book overview and significance of new edition | | 11:52-15:09 | Early human evolution & migrations in Southeast Asia | | 16:21-17:54 | Homo erectus extinction and role of DNA | | 18:14-18:59 | Climate change and rapid sea level rise impacts | | 19:08-24:09 | Arrival of modern humans, Denisovans, and earliest art | | 24:09-29:15 | Denisovan research and ancient DNA insights | | 29:15-34:57 | Three Age System in SE Asia and spread of rice agriculture | | 34:57-40:42 | The Bronze Age: technology and social stratification | | 40:51-44:52 | The Iron Age, its spread, and technological impact | | 45:02-48:06 | Rise of early states and social transformation | | 48:06-52:02 | Lidar's revelations on Angkor and urban archaeology | | 52:12-55:20 | Angkor’s decline and climate change | | 55:39-57:29 | Genes and the continuity of Southeast Asia’s peoples | | 57:46-61:21 | Current DNA research reconstructing prehistoric social life |

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a sweeping yet detailed narrative of human history in Southeast Asia through the lens of archaeology, genetics, and groundbreaking new technologies. Higham’s personal stories, scholarly humility, and palpable excitement about current and future research make this a compelling listen for anyone interested in our deep human past. The discussed book stands as both an authoritative reference and a tribute to the dynamism of archaeological discovery in one of the world’s most fascinating regions.