Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network

Episode: Cheng Li, "Contested Environmentalisms: Trees and the Making of Modern China" (Stanford UP, 2025)
Host: Yadong Li
Guest: Dr. Cheng Li, Assistant Professor of Chinese Studies, Carnegie Mellon University
Date: March 12, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode explores Dr. Cheng Li’s newly published book, Contested Environmentalisms: Trees and the Making of Modern China. The discussion traces how trees and afforestation activities have shaped China’s environmental policies, national identity, and citizen engagement across the 20th and 21st centuries—spanning from Republican era Arbor Days, Maoist campaigns, to contemporary corporate projects such as Alibaba’s Ant Forest. Li’s approach bridges environmental history, literary and film studies, and the history of political and scientific ideas, offering a dynamic interpretation of what he terms "contested environmentalisms."

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genesis of the Project & Author's Background

• Personal Motivation and Origins

  • Dr. Li started with curiosity about tree planting campaigns during the Mao era, which contradicted mainstream images of environmental degradation. (02:49)
  • "I was thinking about how the tree planting has ever started in modern China...I came across very different documents...the Great Leap Forward actually have a lot of tree planting initiatives." – Dr. Cheng Li, (03:18)

• Methodological Ambition

  • The book draws on environmental history, cultural studies, and the history of science, using diverse sources—archives, literature, film, digital media.

2. Conceptual Framework: “Contested Environmentalisms”

• On 'Contested'

  • The sense of contestation emerged from archival puzzles, rather than being preconceived. Contestation refers to the enduring debates and power struggles around afforestation—science, political campaigns, nation-building, ritual, and ethnic identity (06:36, 11:27).
  • "I argue that contestation is actually a strength because it...allows Chinese environmentalism to adapt to a new social and political context." – Dr. Cheng Li, (10:42)

• On 'Environmentalisms' (Plurality)

  • Li resists philosophical abstraction and highlights multiple, context-dependent Chinese environmentalisms, including scientific, ritual, and cosmological modes (12:21).
  • Emphasis on how practical knowledge and diverse media help disseminate environmental consciousness.

3. Interdisciplinary & Archival Approach

• Multi-Source Analysis
  • The book ranges from forestry treatises, local archives, Mao-era films, to mobile app interfaces, moving beyond the classic “decline narrative” (e.g., Judith Shapiro’s Mao’s War Against Nature) (17:26).
  • Key insight: scholarly attention should move beyond “how many trees” to the contested ideas underpinning tree planting across different regimes (16:15).

4. Historical Case Studies

• A. Republic of China (Arbor Day and Rituals) [19:00–22:59]

  • Arbor Day, introduced in 1916, functioned as both environmental practice and political ritual. Foresters educated abroad (like Lin Daoyang from Yale) returned to shape policy.
  • "When Chiang Kai Shek and Wang Jingwei both try to plant trees, they actually fight against for the political legitimacy as heirs." – Dr. Cheng Li, (20:37)

• B. Maoist Era (Mass Mobilization, Science Debates) [24:41–29:11]

  • Tree planting persisted during the Mao era, with significant debate among hydrologists and foresters about environmental strategies.
  • "The foresters want to emphasize a very whole scale, very ambitious plan for tree planting…The hydrologists want to build dams on certain parts of the Yellow river." (25:41)
  • The universalizing of tree planting often served Han-dominated social control in ethnic regions—a contested legacy (29:00).

• C. Media & Ethnic Borders [30:18–33:24]

  • Mao-era films depicting afforestation in Inner Mongolia/Xinjiang reveal how the state imagined afforestation as both civilizing and securitizing, sometimes clashing with local ecological knowledge and lifeways.
  • "Tree planting can be a very harmful endeavor in the desert. Desert has its own ecological system." (30:28)
  • Local ethnic groups often viewed universal efforts as disruptive and disrespectful to ancestral lands.

• D. Literary Representations & the 1980s Green Awakening [36:07–38:33]

  • 1980s literature mixed green nativism (local tradition) and occidentalisms (Western knowledge), reflecting a renewed ecological awareness post-Cultural Revolution.
  • "Environmental writing...is not only about environmental conservation, but also to try to talk to history or...future for more political ambitions." (37:21)

• E. Contemporary Era: Consumer Environmentalism and Ant Forest [39:31–42:12]

  • Alibaba’s Ant Forest app blends gamified mass mobilization with corporate branding, echoing both Maoist collectivism and capitalist consumerism.
  • "Ant Forest integrates the socialist mass mobilization as well as the capitalist money making efforts...A century later I called Ant Forest a virtual Arbor Day." (41:15)

5. Environmental Governance: Democratic vs. Authoritarian Approaches

• Critique of "Campaign-style" Environmentalism [42:57–45:42]
  • Short-term mass campaigns are impactful for mobilization but lack sustainability; enduring change needs "bottom-up" efforts.
  • "Democratic environmentalism is actually pretty slow...The campaign style...is very powerful and efficient at first glance, but not very enduring...A short campaign...clashes with...putting environmental ideas into practice in everyday life." (43:09, 44:24)
  • Knowledge systems matter more than simple democratic/authoritarian binaries. Training of experts (foresters vs. hydrologists) shapes policies.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tree Planting as National Survival:

  • "Tree planting is actually part of [Lin Daoyang's] endeavor for national survival...to help the founding of Arbor Day in 1916." (08:32)

• On the Meaning of Contestation:

  • "Contestation serves as a safety valve and helps us to understand the environmental reasons in China is a forceful impact indeed." (10:40)

• On State Ritual vs. Actual Afforestation:

  • "Once the tree planting or environmental efforts try to integrate with other mainstream efforts, it actually comes at the expense of the real intention or real intent of tree planting." (21:14)

• On Borderland Ethnic Dynamics:

  • "The Inner Mongolians regarding tree planting or anti-desertification efforts...as efforts to add disrespect to their ancestors." (32:06)

• On Ant Forest as a ‘Virtual Arbor Day’:

  • "A century later, I called Ant Forest a virtual Arbor Day...it cultivates active citizenship and to promote a practice of caring of others, affection and respect." (41:15)

• On Enduring Environmental Challenges:

  • "A short campaign to cultivate environmental consciousness clashes with a long and incremental work of putting environmental ideas into practice in everyday life." (44:02)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Host Introduction and Episode Theme: 01:05–02:49
• Dr. Cheng Li’s Background and Project Genesis: 02:49–06:36
• Exploring 'Contested' and 'Environmentalisms': 06:36–16:15
• Interdisciplinary Methods & Pushback Against Classic Narratives: 16:15–19:00
• Arbor Day and Nationalist Rituals: 19:00–22:59
• Mao-Era and Science Debates: 24:41–29:11
• Afforestation in Multiethnic Borderlands: 30:18–33:24
• Romantic vs. Militaristic Conservation: 34:36–36:07
• 1980s Green Awakening & Literature: 36:07–39:31
• Ant Forest and Consumer Environmentalism: 39:31–42:12
• Prospects for Grassroots Environmentalism: 42:57–45:42
• Current & Future Projects: 46:15–47:18

Flow and Tone

The conversation is warm, collegial, and intellectually engaged. Both host and guest share a sense of curiosity and mutual respect, with the host often expressing personal resonance with the topics discussed. Dr. Li’s answers are thoughtful, layered, and frequently reference both scholarly debates and personal discoveries.

Conclusion

Cheng Li’s Contested Environmentalisms presents an ambitious, multi-disciplinary examination of the past century of tree planting in China. Trees serve as powerful mediators and symbols for debates over sovereignty, citizenship, environmental futures, and the ongoing tensions between science, state, ethnicity, and consumer society. From Republican rituals to Maoist campaigns to digital-age gamification, Li’s book—and this podcast—offer essential insight for anyone interested in how environment, politics, and culture are deeply entangled in China and beyond.