Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network – New Books in Law
Episode: Chris Dietz, "Self-Declaration in the Legal Recognition of Gender" (Routledge, 2022)
Host: Jane Richards
Guest: Dr. Chris Dietz (Lecturer, Centre for Law and Social Justice, University of Leeds)
Date: January 6, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode centers on Dr. Chris Dietz’s book, Self-Declaration in the Legal Recognition of Gender. Dr. Dietz explores how legal recognition of gender has evolved, focusing on the shift from medicalized and bureaucratic models toward self-declaration systems, with a comparative lens on Denmark and the UK. The discussion touches on legal, medical, and social complexities, the lived experiences of trans people under different frameworks, the limitations of legal reform, and critical reflections on progress, visibility, and vulnerability in trans rights.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dr. Chris Dietz’s Background and Motivation

• Personal and Academic Evolution (02:34 – 03:23):
  • Dietz’s awareness of legal gender issues arose during undergraduate feminist activism and was influenced by experiences during an Erasmus year in Sweden, where trans friends faced hurdles changing legal gender.
  • Inspired by early findings around the UK's Gender Recognition Act 2004 (GRA) and observing Denmark’s 2014 move to self-declaration.

2. Evolution of Legal Gender Recognition (03:57 – 09:18)

• Historical Shifts (04:10 – 06:22):

  • Originally, most countries, including the UK, provided no legal path for changing gender. Pre-2004, legal recognition in Europe typically required surgery and hormone treatment.
  • The GRA introduced legal recognition based on psychiatric diagnosis, no longer requiring surgery/hormones, seen as progressive for its time but still gatekept.
  • Denmark’s 2014 law marked a radical shift to self-declaration (no diagnosis or surgery required), influencing other countries.

• Conceptual Distinctions: “Self-Declaration” vs. “Self-Identification” (07:06 – 09:18):

  • Dietz distinguishes “self-declaration” (making a formal, binary request to the state) from informal “self-identification.”
  • Quote:

    "I specify self declaration because in Denmark the options were male or female. It’s a binary choice and it’s not enough to simply identify as those things—you have to tell the state." (07:36)

3. Sex, Gender, and Law (10:24 – 13:32)

• Debates and Ambiguity (10:29 – 13:32):

  • Sex/gender distinctions are central to current culture wars. “Sex” and “gender” are often conflated in UK law and Danish language.
  • Difficulty disentangling sex (as registered at birth) from gender (as later recognized).

• Memorable Reflection:

  "It is very difficult to disentangle sex and gender... the two are so heavily dependent upon one another." (13:28)

4. Gender, Power, and Legal Subjects (14:06 – 17:33)

• Gender Performativity and Inequalities (14:33 – 17:33):
  • Theoretical grounding in Judith Butler’s performativity; it's harder for some to "do gender", with trans people facing systemic barriers and discrimination.
  • Trans people’s legal and medical experiences remain pathologizing—different from cis people.
  • Quote:

    "Trans people somehow aren’t discriminated on the basis of gender—I think is misguided and easily disproven... they do face different barriers than what cis people face..." (16:41)

5. Comparing Denmark and the UK (18:15 – 21:28)

• Transition to Self-Declaration (20:19 – 21:28):
  • Denmark’s model removes medical gatekeeping for legal gender change, streamlining the process for trans individuals.
  • UK process remains burdensome, costly, and sometimes unnecessary for daily life.
  • Quote:

    "In Denmark, making it an Internet-based system... meant it was seen as much more accessible to trans people..." (20:51)

6. Methodology and Surprising Findings (21:48 – 29:32)

• Legal Consciousness and Empirical Work (21:48 – 23:36):
  • Dietz conducted qualitative interviews with trans people and regulators (legal consciousness methodology).
  • Initial assumption that Denmark must be “doing things well” was upended by trans interviewees’ negative experiences with healthcare after legal reform.
  • Quote:

    "The law is fine, but the access to health care got worse. And if anything, access to healthcare is more important than access to legal recognition for trans people." (29:23)

7. Legal Embodiment, Law, and Medicine (31:01 – 35:14)

• Institutional Power and Embodiment (31:01 – 35:14):
  • Dietz analyzes power dynamics between trans people, law, and medicine, focusing on institutional and experiential aspects rather than universalizing “trans embodiment.”
  • Medical discretion and legal frameworks profoundly shape trans experiences.

8. Jurisdictional Boundaries: Law vs. Medicine (35:14 – 44:51)

• Jurisdictional Tensions and Discretion (35:14 – 44:51):
  • Parliamentary debates in Denmark reveal politicians’ tendency to cede contested issues (like medical transition) to doctors.
  • Medical gatekeeping remains potent, with doctors focused on excluding those “not really trans,” limiting non-binary people’s access in particular.
  • Quote:

    "Our job is to find people to whom this won’t be right. So... the main focus is weeding out people who aren’t really trans." (43:09)

9. Visibility and Progress in Trans Rights (45:15 – 50:57)

• Visibility’s Double-Edged Sword (45:15 – 50:57):
  • Increased trans visibility doesn’t always correlate with more rights or acceptance: visibility has fueled backlash as much as progress.
  • Progressive reforms can pass even without high visibility, and, at times, increased visibility has triggered restrictive measures.
  • Quoting Edouard Glissant, Dietz highlights “the right not to be understood” as an alternative to the demand for perfect public understanding:

    “Perhaps the right not to be understood... is potentially... a direction away from this idea that people should have to come out and explain themselves all the time in order to be granted rights.” (50:44)

10. Vulnerability and Medical Institutions (52:00 – 57:44)

• Expanding on Vulnerability Theory (52:00 – 57:44):
  • Dietz adapts Martha Fineman’s vulnerability theory beyond individuals to institutions, suggesting that centralization and standardization in medical authority in Denmark was, in part, a defensive reaction to institutional vulnerability.
  • Individual autonomy is insufficient as a solution; better outcomes may come from supporting healthcare as a vulnerable institution rather than emphasizing neoliberal individualism.

11. Governmentality and the Nation-State (59:06 – 65:24)

• Broader Structural Analysis (59:06 – 65:24):
  • Drawing on theorists like Dean Spade, Dietz considers how the Danish state’s approach to trans rights is shaped by broader demographic, eugenic, and nationalist concerns.
  • Historic and contemporary requirements around procreation, citizenship, and medical eligibility reflect societal anxieties beyond trans rights per se.
  • Potential for progressive law reform to mask or introduce new exclusions and problems—legal recognition alone is not the full answer.
  • Quote:

    "What might be lost by even a progressive law reform, a successful law reform project... whether the law should be centered in our activism and in our demands from the state..."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Changing Views of Denmark:

  "When I got there, the first few trans people I met all told me what a nightmare it had been... the law... improved, the healthcare got... more restricted." (23:03–29:04)

• On Legal vs. Material Rights:

  “Trans rights aren’t often granted in those areas [healthcare, housing, employment] and in the places where they are, that doesn’t always translate into material equality—or very rarely does.” (50:28)

• On Methodology Surprises:

  “I had this big shift in my viewpoint… I wanted to come and see how it’s done, and straight away they’re saying, joking, ‘It’s a nightmare!’” (23:09)

• On Non-binary Experiences:

  “I keep cutting my hair short whilst I’m going to the sex clinic. I don’t want to confuse them. I’d love to grow my hair long but I want them to believe that I want to be a man.” (44:05)

• On Governmentality:

  “The myth of liberal Denmark is a myth—and what the dark underbelly of Denmark’s kind of progressive self-reputation...” (62:52)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro to Guest and Book: 01:32
• Personal motivation and research origins: 01:45 – 03:32
• History of gender recognition laws: 03:57 – 09:18
• Self-declaration vs. self-identification: 07:06 – 09:18
• Sex vs. gender in law and society: 10:24 – 13:32
• Power dynamics & structural inequalities: 14:06 – 17:33
• Comparing Denmark/UK frameworks: 18:15 – 21:28
• Methodological approach & surprises: 21:48 – 29:32
• Legal embodiment and institutional power: 31:01 – 35:14
• Jurisdiction: Law vs. Medicine: 35:14 – 44:51
• Visibility and progress: 45:15 – 50:57
• Vulnerability (theory and medical regulation): 52:00 – 57:44
• Governmentality and broader implications: 59:06 – 65:24
• Key takeaways and future projects: 66:00 – 70:19

Key Takeaways

• Legal self-declaration is not a panacea.
  Removing gatekeepers (e.g., in Denmark) improved legal access but sometimes worsened healthcare access. Law alone doesn’t ensure material equality.

• Medicalization and gatekeeping persist.
  Even after legal reforms, medical professionals hold significant power, often limiting access based on narrow definitions of transness.

• Visibility can backfire.
  Increased public and media focus on trans people may generate backlash and new barriers as well as progress.

• Vulnerability isn’t only individual.
  Medical institutions themselves experience vulnerability, which can prompt protective or restrictive reforms.

• Progress is complex and non-linear.
  Legal reforms are entwined with social structures, power relations, and must be assessed for their real-life impact—including unintended consequences.

• Broader structural and political forces matter.
  Efforts to support trans people must go beyond law reform, considering intersections with healthcare, economic security, and nationalism.

Further Work

• Chris Dietz's Current/Future Research (69:00 – 70:21):
  Dietz is shifting focus to examine the regulation of wearable health devices in the UK, analyzing legal embodiment, surveillance, and implications for healthcare.

End of Summary