Podcast Summary:

New Books Network — Christopher C. Gorham, "Matisse at War: Art and Resistance in Nazi Occupied France" (Citadel Press, 2025)
Host: Jenna Pittman
Guest: Christopher C. Gorham
Date: September 9, 2025

Overview

This episode of the New Books Network delves into Christopher C. Gorham’s new book, Matisse at War: Art and Resistance in Nazi Occupied France. Gorham discusses how the legendary French artist Henri Matisse navigated the dangers, moral choices, and creative challenges of World War II, particularly during the Nazi occupation of France. The conversation explores Matisse’s family dynamics, evolving artistic output, and subtle acts of resistance, as well as never-before-examined facets of his personal and artistic life during wartime.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Gorham’s Background and Path to Writing the Book

• Gorham describes his early love for history, inspired by stories from his WWII veteran grandfather, and his transition from law to teaching and writing about history.

  “I could never overcome my love of history... In 2009, 2010, my wife and I decided that I'd get my master's in history and start teaching here in Massachusetts” — Christopher C. Gorham (02:25)

2. What Makes This Book Unique?

• While earlier biographies and scholarly works touched on Matisse’s WWII years, no prior book has focused exclusively on Matisse’s experience and his family's resistance under the Nazi occupation.

  “There has not been a full book-length treatment of what Matisse went through... and what his family went through.” — Gorham (05:28)

3. Sources and Research Approach

• Primary sources included extensive correspondence between Matisse and his children, especially his son Pierre in New York, as well as archives in Paris and letters with friends and fellow artists.

  “The letters between Pierre and his father in French... were just a gold mine.” — Gorham (07:08)

4. Matisse’s State Before and During WWII (1938–1945)

• Matisse, in his late 60s and early 70s, was experiencing personal and professional upheaval: ending his marriage, estrangement from parts of his family, and declining artistic notoriety.
  • He moved from Paris to Nice, partly for inspiration from the Mediterranean light.

  “He’s seen by a lot of his contemporaries as kind of this bourgeois guy... who maybe had his moment a couple of decades before, but by 1938... he's sort of being criticized as being this, you know, self-satisfied guy indulging in the pleasures of Nice.” — Gorham (09:02)

5. Letters and Family Dynamics

• The family was scattered: Pierre in New York, Marguerite (daughter) largely unreachable due to her Resistance activities, and Jean (son) also occupied elsewhere.
• Matisse’s companion during this period, Lydia Delectorskaya, became a point of contention within the family, deepening Matisse’s sense of isolation.

  “We get thunderbolts thrown at us from Nice.” — Marguerite Matisse, as described by Gorham (10:54)

6. Comparison: Matisse in World War I vs. World War II

• In World War I, Matisse’s sons were at the front, and his palette became somber — “muted” and “inscrutable” works, reflecting private anxiety.
• In WWII, health problems (abdominal surgery) confined him physically, leading to his famous cutout period: vibrant colors, but jagged and unsettling forms.

  “There is a sense of surveillance. There’s a sense of being watched... Part of that was the occupation... but it was from his own sickness... The cutouts are his most identifiable artworks from the Second World War.” — Gorham (12:42, 15:57)

7. Matisse’s Artistic and Personal Resistance Under Occupation

• Matisse’s attitudes toward the Germans and Vichy collaborationists were nuanced; he could despise the Nazi regime while admiring individual German artists, particularly those persecuted as “degenerate” by the Nazis.

  “He could admire German artists like Paul Klee but also kind of really hate the German military... he maintained that admiration throughout his life.” — Gorham (20:19)

• He subtly used his art to criticize and resist, remaining in France as a statement of defiant presence.
• The shift in Nice: under Italian rather than German occupation for much of the war, it temporarily became a (relative) haven, especially for Jewish refugees, until the Germans returned in 1942 (42:29).

8. Matisse’s Children: Active Resistance

• Marguerite (daughter) joined the French Resistance, acted as a courier, was arrested, tortured, and narrowly survived — a story previously little-known.

  “She winds up getting arrested. Unbeknownst to Matisse, she just kind of disappears... arrested, tortured... It doesn't look good.” — Gorham (32:07)

• Jean (son) worked with British intelligence from the south of France.
• Even Matisse’s estranged wife contributed to Resistance efforts as a typist.

  “His children really were playing a very dangerous game during the war.” — Gorham (32:07)

9. Pierre Matisse in New York: Cultural Rescue Mission

• Pierre Matisse facilitated the escape and establishment of European artists endangered by Nazism, creating a community and market for them in New York—helping shift the world’s art capital from Paris to New York.

  “For these exiled artists... the Pierre Matisse Gallery in New York City was like the cafe that they missed.” — Gorham (36:47)

10. Nice as a Character

• The unique political geography of Nice—Italian occupation, influx of Jewish refugees, and later violence—makes the city “a character” in the narrative. The region’s overlooked complexities challenge the myth of a tranquil artist's retreat.

  “Nice... is a character in this book... It is almost a location of civil war, French civil war during these years.” — Gorham (39:40)

11. Art, Hope, and Long-Term Perspective

• Despite the turmoil, Matisse maintained hope and perspective, believing in art’s endurance over politics or war. He found solace and resistance in his continuing creative work.

  “His view of the universe... is permeated by things that are longer lasting than the politics or the wars that we have. That's the magic of the artistic temperament.” — Gorham (26:46)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Matisse’s philosophy:

  “If everybody leaves France, what will become of France?” — Matisse, as relayed by Gorham (43:45)

• Art reflecting resilience:

  “His subtle patriotism through his art... just by remaining in France, Matisse was a beacon to the young.” — Gorham quoting Françoise Gilot (46:59)

• On the cutouts and the ‘White Elephant’:

  “White is the color of animals in captivity... Matisse said, c’est moi, it’s me.” — Gorham (29:17-31:29)

• On Marguerite Matisse:

  “I don’t think there are very many people that know the great Henri Matisse’s daughter... suffered as much as she did for her country. She’s a real hero.” — Gorham (43:45)

Important Timestamps

• [01:33] — Intro & Gorham’s professional background
• [05:28] — On prior biographies and the book’s unique angle
• [07:08] — Research sources and correspondence
• [09:02] — Matisse’s life on the brink of WWII
• [12:42] — Comparison of Matisse’s art across world wars
• [20:19] — How Matisse navigated occupation, ideology, and risk
• [29:17] — The cutout period, “Jazz”, and artistic symbolism
• [32:07] — The Resistance: Marguerite, Jean, and family risks
• [36:47] — Pierre Matisse and the rescue of modernist artists
• [39:40] — Nice as a war-torn, politically charged setting
• [43:45] — Surprising research discoveries, including Matisse potentially sheltering refugees
• [46:59] — Matisse’s subtle patriotism and legacy
• [47:52] — Hints about Gorham’s next project on the New York art world

Conclusion

Christopher C. Gorham’s Matisse at War uncovers the depth of Henri Matisse’s experience under Nazi occupation, not just as an artistic innovator but as a subtle resistor and family man entwined in the broader currents of history. The book enriches our understanding of art’s power during crisis, the overlooked stories of Resistance, and the overlooked complexities of wartime France, especially in its southern regions.

Recommendation:
For anyone interested in modern art, the history of WWII, or lesser-known narratives of artistic and personal resistance, this episode — and Gorham’s book — provides a compelling, humanizing, and thought-provoking new perspective.