Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Jacob Ward
Guest: Colm Murphy (Senior Lecturer in British Politics, Queen Mary University of London)
Book Discussed: Futures of Socialism: ‘Modernisation', the Labour Party, and the British Left, 1973–1997 (Cambridge University Press, 2023)
Date: December 13, 2025

This episode features an in-depth interview with Colm Murphy, exploring the major intellectual, political, and cultural transformations of the British left from the early 1970s to the advent of New Labour in 1997. Murphy’s book investigates how the concept of "modernisation" shaped debates within the Labour Party and the wider British left, tracing multi-faceted responses to economic, global, and social upheavals. The conversation also draws connections between the past and present, offering lessons for contemporary left activism.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Background and Book Premise

• Murphy’s scholarly focus: Politics and political economy, with a specialism in the history of social democracy and socialism in Britain and Europe.
• Scope of the book: Examines how the British left, including but not limited to the Labour Party, sought to reinvent itself amid seismic changes—economic crises, Thatcherite conservatism, the emergence of neoliberalism, and the rise (and challenges) of new social movements.
• Key question: How did actors on the British left conceptualise and respond to the challenges of modernity, and why did certain interpretations prevail by 1997?

Quote

“The book is about the attempted transformation of the Labour Party and wider British left thinking at a moment of intense turmoil and upset and controversy... It’s specifically about ideas: how the left should transform itself and the relationship of those ideas to political actors and political practice.”
— Colm Murphy [02:32]

2. Main Takeaways for Today’s Left

• Two essential lessons for activists and thinkers:
  • Don’t let your worldview "pickle" (avoid intellectual stagnation) and embrace pluralism.
  • Balance that pluralism with coherence—developing a focused political agenda.
• Murphy’s core challenge: The usual dichotomy of New Labour as "salvation" or "betrayal" oversimplifies a contingent, complex intellectual journey.
• Realpolitik lesson: Both factional discipline and creative thinking matter, but lasting political projects require intellectual coherence.

Quotes

"You cannot cut yourself off from streams of thinking because creativity is not factional. That's a really key lesson... But the other one is coherence."
— Colm Murphy [07:07]

"My book is partly about the political death of ideas, the choosing of some ideas over others, the narrowing down of agendas over time."
— Colm Murphy [07:07]

3. Think Tanks and the Ecosystem of Ideas

• New dynamic: In response to past policy “hostages”, institutions like IPPR and Demos provided a space for radical or experimental ideas without obligating the Labour leadership to commit.
• Tradeoff: This arrangement empowered party leaders, offering greater flexibility, but less accountability to activists or rigorous intellectual debate.
• Contrast to today: While contemporary think tank-party connections exist, Murphy argues their proximity and dynamism in the 1990s were unique. Current patterns risk incoherence and strategic confusion in the absence of rooted intellectual exchange.

Quote

“You empower the leadership and you give them autonomy, which means they are less accountable to party activists and... less accountable to intellectual coherence as well.”
— Colm Murphy [13:56]

4. Modernisation: The Keyword and Its Many Meanings

• Historical context: Modernisation as a concept has deep roots in post-Enlightenment social science, often wielded as an argument for inevitability and a political weapon (“temporal blackmail”).
• Within the Labour Party: Not just the preserve of Blairites; actors across the left used the language of modernisation to advance competing projects.
• Main point: Structural changes did force adaptation, but a variety of modernisation paths were possible—the victory of New Labour’s was not inevitable.

Quotes

“It’s a really powerful political tool to say you are against modernization... Tony Blair would talk about globalization as if it was the same as the seasons. Debating globalization for him was like debating whether autumn followed summer. It’s inevitable.”
— Colm Murphy [17:09]

5. Globalisation, Contingency, and Left Strategy

• Initial left response: Crisis of postwar economic models (exchange rate instability, IMF crisis) encouraged more state control, as in the “Alternative Economic Strategy.”
• Shift in the 80s/90s: Experiences such as Mitterrand’s rollback in France and changes to the European Union provoked a turn from national solutions towards European and global approaches.
• Globalisation as both cause and narrative: Political actors not only responded to, but helped construct, the reality and limits of globalisation.

Quotes

“No description of economic changes is neutral... what genuinely changes over this period... is the liberalization of capital flows, the removal of capital controls... This is key to the Washington Consensus.”
— Colm Murphy [31:02]

6. Alternatives: Stakeholder Capitalism and Diffuse Power

• Figures like Brian Gould: Instead of top-down state control, advocated industrial democracy, employee share-ownership, and spreading power among stakeholders (including workers and service-users).
• Rationale: Recognized sociological changes and argued for a more participatory, dynamic left project, which would “outdate Thatcherism.”
• Outcome: These visions were sidelined as New Labour’s agenda consolidated.

Quote

"Brian Gould... comes up with this really interesting interpretation of sociological trends... the way to respond to this more assertive younger generation is to involve them more. And they frame it as a modernizing argument in that way."
— Colm Murphy [34:32]

7. Social and Cultural Modernisation: Gender and Race

On Gender:

• Feminist actors (e.g., Patricia Hewitt, Harriet Harman, Anna Coote):
  • Framed increasing women’s labour participation as a sign of modernity.
  • Used “modernisation” as a tool to argue for new policies—flexible work, more generous family leave.
  • Paradox: The rhetoric of inevitability limited the radicalism of policy; tactical moderation in exchange for influence.

Quote

“They frame it as inevitable... so surely that implies that policy just needs to work with the grain of change rather than do something too disruptive. ...The choice of aligning themselves with a modernization framework... I think had unintended consequences in moderating their platform.”
— Colm Murphy [45:47]

On Race:

• Absence of 'modernisation' as a keyword: Unlike gender, modernization discourse rarely intersected with discussions about black and Asian representation.
• Why?
  • Conflict and suspicion over "black sections" in Labour created defensive internal politics.
  • Modernisation’s intellectual roots (Weber, Marx) were Eurocentric and often at odds with post-colonial/anti-racist scholarship.
  • Equality for ethnic minorities was framed as a matter of civil rights, not temporal progress.
• Long-term result: New Labour entered government with a coherent plan on economics and gender, but a patchwork, conflicted approach to multiculturalism.

Quote

"They would say, no, we do that because from first principles we think that all citizens should have equal rights. ... The absence has an implication ... New Labour had a very Janus-faced relationship to multiculturalism in all sorts of contentious ways."
— Colm Murphy [53:07]

8. New Labour and the Social Meaning of Economic Policy

• Shift from manufacturing to services: As the British economy changed, so too did Labour’s “technocratic” aspirations: investing in human capital (education, training) became central to the modernisation agenda.
• Global influences: Borrowed from American theorists (e.g., Robert Reich) about education as key to competitiveness.
• Legacy and irony: Substantial increases in education spending and reform, though some assumptions now seem outdated in a rapidly transforming economy.

Quote

"If you think that you’ve lost control over the industrial part of economic policy... what remains within your power? Investing in your own people so that you’re more competitive. ... The most important task of modernization is to invest in human capital."
— Colm Murphy [58:22]

9. Revisionism as the Essence of Social Democracy

• Social democracy is revisionist: From Bernstein to Crosland to New Labour, the tradition is defined by constant adaptation to changing conditions.
• Risks: Overconfidence and alienation—believing you are the only “truly modern” actor can breed arrogance and neglect parts of your base.
• Virtue: This willingness to rethink and revise is also a source of creativity—something Murphy argues is especially needed in today's polarized, short-termist political climate.

Quotes

“There is a virtue in having a tradition that remains influential and that actively and constantly and irrepressibly is looking around itself and reading the latest books and thinking, God, am I completely wrong? Do I need to rethink everything? I think that’s a good thing.”
— Colm Murphy [68:37]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the dangers of inevitable "modernisation":

  "It’s a really powerful political tool to say you are against modernization." – Colm Murphy [17:09]

• On lessons for activists:

  "You cannot cut yourself off from streams of thinking because creativity is not factional." – Colm Murphy [07:07]

• On the creative/limiting dynamic of think tanks:

  "You empower the leadership and you give them autonomy, which means they are less accountable to party activists and intellectual coherence as well." – Colm Murphy [13:56]

Important Timestamps

• [02:32] Murphy introduces himself, his research background, and the book's main themes.
• [07:07] Murphy outlines key lessons for today’s left from his research.
• [11:27–16:12] The emergence and consequences of a Labour-adjacent think tank ecosystem.
• [17:09–21:42] What "modernisation" meant—and how it was used as both a framework and a weapon.
• [24:00–33:45] Globalisation: How the left conceptualised and responded to economic change.
• [34:32–39:50] Alternatives to New Labour’s modernisation: Stakeholder capitalism, Gould, and others.
• [41:02–47:47] How gender became a modernisation issue, its politics, and paradoxes.
• [49:22–56:03] Race, black sections, and why modernisation rhetoric missed multiculturalism.
• [56:51–63:24] New Labour: social aspects of economic policy, focus on education and human capital.
• [64:37] Conclusion: Revisionism as the core of social democracy, its risks and rewards.

Conclusion & Closing Thoughts

Murphy’s Futures of Socialism offers a nuanced, deeply contextual account of how the British left navigated late 20th century upheavals. Rather than presenting the ascendancy of New Labour as either triumphant modernisation or historic betrayal, Murphy asks readers to appreciate the plural, contingent ways social democracy can and did adapt to a changing world. The central message: creativity, coherence, and a willingness to revise remain both the strengths and potential pitfalls of the left—challenges that are acutely present today.

For further insight:
Read Futures of Socialism: ‘Modernisation', the Labour Party, and the British Left, 1973–1997 by Colm Murphy (Cambridge University Press, 2023).