Podcast Summary: Conceptual Digestion with Anya Daly

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Pat McConville
Guest: Dr. Anya Daly
Date: September 19, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of "Concept Art" features Dr. Anya Daly, whose work bridges phenomenology, philosophy of mind, aesthetics, animal cognition, and Buddhist philosophy. The conversation explores how art influences philosophical inquiry—especially perception and attention—the so-called "continental/analytic" divide in philosophy, the philosophical significance of animal life-worlds, and Dr. Daly’s current work on Indigenous life worlds and mental health.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Dr. Anya Daly’s Philosophical Journey (02:11–04:54)

• Background: Originally from New Zealand, Daly’s academic path included law, psychiatric nursing, and raising three children, before focusing on philosophy.
• Buddhist Influence: Early Buddhist meditation (around age 18) offered "a religious system that actually required you to question…not just to accept things on faith" and continues to shape her approach to philosophy. (03:25)
• Philosophy in Practice: Her studies often happened "in the gaps between working and raising three children on my own." (04:23)

The Influence of Art on Philosophical Work (05:17–09:18)

• Art & Non-Conceptual Experience: Daly sees art as providing a "non conceptual way of just looking at the world and asking those questions that…we may not normally ask." (05:19)
• Political and Emotional Power: Art can "motivate us to political action…be highly political." (05:34)
• Merleau-Ponty’s Impact: Inspired by Maurice Merleau-Ponty, Daly values his nuanced approach to perception and embodiment.
  • Attentive Perception: "Attentive perception is transformative. So it transforms the object that you’re looking at as well as the perceiving subject." (07:24)
• Anecdotes:
  • Kandinsky's 'Haystack' Epiphany: "The concept of haystack completely evaporated, and he was just engaging with the color, the shapes, the forms..." (08:18)
  • Cézanne’s Process: "Each brush stroke must satisfy an infinite number of conditions." (09:10)

Art, Meditation & Perception (10:44–12:34)

• Art as a Meditative Encounter: Attending to art “properly” requires being present, not distracted by preconceptions or unrelated thoughts. (11:02)
• Representational vs. Direct Perception: Daly discusses how impressionist and abstract art invite more direct, less conceptual involvement—supporting Merleau-Ponty’s “direct perception thesis.” (11:48)

Merleau-Ponty and the Body (12:34–14:06)

• Philosophy of the Body: For Daly, Merleau-Ponty brings the body and perception "back into philosophical respectability," challenging traditions prioritizing "reason and rationality and…propositional approaches." (13:09)
• Expansive Reach: Merleau-Ponty's work resonates across philosophy of mind, cognitive science, and aesthetics.

Continental-Analytic Divide (14:06–20:12)

• Political and Structural Divide: Daly feels the divide is "mostly political these days," with analytic philosophy historically holding institutional power. She expresses "phenomenology…as a really important corrective…to analytic philosophy." (14:12)
• Terminology Critique: She dislikes the term "continental," preferring “European,” and calls out its pejorative origins.
• Synthesis and Style: While phenomenology involves analysis—refuting simple analytic-versus-synthetic dichotomies—it is characterized by synthesizing perspectives and "cross-disciplinary engagement." (17:19)

Art, Animality & Inter-Animality (20:12–25:51)

• Inter-Animal Kinship: Art helps us question human-centered perspectives and appreciate "other ways of being in the world."
• Leonardo da Vinci Example: Da Vinci’s observation and artistic depiction of animal movement informs both his science and his art.
• Ethical and Empathic Dimensions: Powerful art depicting animals (e.g., Théodore Géricault’s war horses) "nudges us out of our…exceptionalist viewpoint."
• Life Worlds: The concept, drawn from Husserl, is used to engage with animals' perspectives and is being applied in Daly’s current research on Indigenous life worlds.

Aesthetics: Embodiment and Political Art (25:51–28:44)

• Embodiment in Art: Daly argues that "the meaning [of a painting] is not at the level of thought, but in the very blood, breath, flesh and bones of the living, conscious body." (25:51)
• Political Art (e.g., Picasso’s Guernica): While some (like Sartre initially) may doubt art’s political efficacy, Daly sees both direct, bodily engagement and conceptual interpretation as crucial.
• Shared Perception: Our mutual embodied existence allows for both universal recognition and subjective experience of art.

Contemporary Work: Indigenous Life Worlds & Mental Health (29:28–31:41)

• Research Focus: Daly is developing approaches to mental health informed by Indigenous "life worlds," drawing on work by Maggie Walter, Lawrence Kirmeyer, and others.
• Relational Ontologies & Pattern Thinking: She explores how phenomenology and Indigenous epistemologies share commitments to the interconnectedness of experience.
• Personal Motivation: Daly’s work is partly in response to national failures of recognition—“I was just profoundly upset that people could be so ignorant not even to grant this…small gesture of recognition to our Indigenous people…” (29:42)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Buddhist Philosophy:
  “It was such a huge relief after years of Catholic dogma…to have a religious system that actually required you to question…”
  —Anya Daly, (03:25)

• On Art’s Transformative Power:
  "Attentive perception is transformative. So it transforms the object that you're looking at as well as the perceiving subject."
  —Anya Daly, quoting Merleau-Ponty (07:24)

• On Cezanne & Painting:
  “Each brush stroke must satisfy an infinite number of conditions.”
  —Merleau-Ponty, cited by Anya Daly (09:10)

• Critique of the Continental Divide:
  "I hate the word continental and I think, you know, it's a name that was given to us by bloody analytic philosophers."
  —Anya Daly (14:32)

• On Art’s Embodied Meaning:
  “The elements of a painting…the colors, the shapes, the textures, are deciphered not at the level of thought, but in the very blood, breath, flesh and bones of the living, conscious body.”
  —Paraphrased from Anya Daly’s paper (25:51)

• On Institutional Inequality:
  “There's hegemony there…analytic philosophers have been controlling the whole field for far too long…and sort of dismissing the European traditions.”
  —Anya Daly (14:17)

• On Indigenous Recognition:
  “I was just profoundly upset that people could be so ignorant not even to grant this…to our Indigenous people who have gone through so much…”
  —Anya Daly (29:42)

Important Segment Timestamps

• Background & Academic Journey: 02:11–04:54
• Art and Perception: 05:17–09:18
• Meditation, Attention, Aesthetics: 10:44–12:34
• Merleau-Ponty & Philosophy of the Body: 12:34–14:06
• Continental/Analytic Divide: 14:06–20:12
• Animal Cognition & Art: 20:12–25:51
• Embodiment and Political Art: 25:51–28:44
• Indigenous Life Worlds & Mental Health: 29:28–31:41

Tone and Language

Dr. Daly’s approach is passionate, critical, and deeply reflective. She frequently references both philosophical theory and personal experience, maintaining a tone of intellectual curiosity ("I love reading him [Merleau-Ponty]… always discovering hidden layers"), directness (critiquing academic structures), and empathy—especially in discussions about Indigenous peoples and animal cognition.

For further reading and links to Dr. Daly's work and related art, visit the Concept Art website referenced by the host.