Podcast Summary: Conversations with Birds

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Dr. Christina Gessler
Guest: Priyanka Kumar
Air Date: November 27, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features a thoughtful interview with Priyanka Kumar, author of Conversations with Birds. Kumar discusses her journey as a lifelong naturalist, her approach to birdwatching as a deeply immersive, non-acquisitive practice, and how connecting with birds has been essential to her sense of belonging in nature. The conversation explores themes of slowing down in modern life, grief and healing through nature, the philosophical and ecological value of protecting bird habitats, and the importance of creating inclusive spaces for curiosity and conservation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Priyanka Kumar’s Background and Philosophy

[02:19]

Kumar is an author of three books—including Conversations with Birds.
She grew up in the foothills of the Himalayas, where she developed a sense of belonging with nature.

[03:44] Kumar on Her Approach to Birds:

"The last thing I want to do is to go into a forest and...wanting to acquire a bird for my list. For me personally...I think that kind of interferes with the music of being in nature."
She emphasizes a practice of deep observation and learning from birds, rather than aiming to check species off a list.

Nature as Counterpoint to Modern Life

[07:51]

Kumar reflects on childhood memories of wandering in nature versus her experience of modern “fragmented” time.
She shares how even in the rush of urban life (Los Angeles), fleeting moments in nature restored her sense of belonging.

[08:47]
Kumar describes how birds near LA helped her reconnect with a deeper, more soulful sense of time:

"Despite all the rational reasons I may have had to not listen to that call, the call was very strong, and...I gave into it. And I've never regretted that."

Grief, Healing, and Human-Bird Parallels

[12:46]

The book’s essays often pair descriptions of birds with parallels in Kumar's personal life, especially moments of grief and transition post-grad school.
Observing water birds and endangered snowy plovers during a time of personal loss underscores the contrast between human isolation and bird community.

[14:32] Kumar on Isolation and Reconnection:

"...being with the birds, bringing them into my daily life was the beginning of opening my eyes to a different way of life, to a way of life that would be more sustaining, that would be more healing, and importantly, that would make me feel more alive."

Rasa, Joy, and Community

[21:00]

Kumar explains “rasa,” a Sanskrit concept meaning “juice,” a rich inner essence essential for art and life, and how she rediscovered it via unexpected encounters with bulbuls in California.
The presence of non-native bulbuls (originally brought for aviaries) in California’s Huntington Gardens reminded Kumar of home and a lost sense of vibrancy.

[26:42]

"These birds were my teachers and they showed me a way out of the materialistic, competitive culture that I was otherwise trapped in."

Exclusion and Gatekeeping: The Huntington Library Experience

[27:27]

Kumar shares a story of being denied access to the Huntington Library’s research collections because she didn’t have a PhD, even though she had a terminal MFA degree—a poignant example of institutional gatekeeping.
The episode highlights how exclusion dampens curiosity and optimism in scholars.

[34:57] Kumar’s Reflection:

"We internalize so much of this that I think that it has this kind of rejection, has the possibility to mute our intellectual curiosity, to mute our intellectual ambition."

The story comes full circle: after publication, she was invited as a speaker at the same library, which subsequently changed its policy.

"I'm glad now that I listened to that voice...that one day that might change circumstances for other young people who would be in my position moving forward." [34:57]

Ecology, Conservation, and Moral Responsibility

[38:56]

Kumar discusses her field research and ethical dilemmas regarding habitat destruction for sensitive species like the goshawk in the Carson National Forest.
She wrestles with critiquing agencies while being mindful of individual efforts within those organizations.

[41:01] Kumar on Public Lands:

"These national forests are our public lands...set aside for you and me and our community and kids in the future to use. And there are also lands set aside for wildlife..."

She notes the asymmetry between commercial pressure (logging companies “banging” on doors) and the quiet use by hikers and wildlife.
Kumar affirms her duty to the public and the wildlife to share these stories, even when difficult.

[48:43] On Habitat and Bird Stress:

"We sometimes think about habitat as though, you know, we need habitat for birds, as though we were giving a home to birds. And, you know, the reality is that we've, we've taken so much away...when our greed begins to devour their habitat, I think it really is a moral issue, that's what it comes down to."

She references E.O. Wilson’s “Half Earth” concept, advocating for the restoration of wild lands.
Emphasizes the importance of human self-reflection, humility, and moral responsibility in protecting ecosystems.

The Concept of the Microwild: Actionable Hope

[54:36]

Kumar introduces her concept of the “microwild”: small pockets of land capable of sustaining diverse species and accessible to communities.
She urges listeners to seek out, enjoy, and protect such spaces, especially as they are vulnerable to development.

[54:36] Kumar’s Call-to-Action:

"I would really hope that this conversation sparked listeners to think about birds in a different way, to think about time spent in nature in a different way, and to consider sinking into time, to consider finding a microwild near you and not only enjoying that microwild, but considering what pressures this microwild is under and how this jewel-like scrap of land can be preserved for you and for many, many children who will grow up in your community in the years to come."

Memorable Quotes and Moments

On the essence of being a naturalist:

"I want to sink into time. I see that experience of being in nature and belonging to nature as a counterpoint to the modern life we live, where our time is fragmented by one too many devices." – Priyanka Kumar [03:44]
On the healing power of birds:

"Sometimes it just takes the right bird to awaken us." – Priyanka Kumar [12:46]
On exclusion in intellectual spaces:

"...it was a painful experience. I don't think I ever had such a short conversation that was quite so piercing." – Priyanka Kumar, on Huntington Library rejection [27:27]
On advocacy and moral urgency:

"What right do we have to, you know, snatch their homes away from them? And how do we prioritize our needs against theirs when their needs are so fundamental?" – Priyanka Kumar [48:43]
On the practical hope of the “microwild”:

"A microwild is a scrap of nature, a pocket of nature that is large enough to sustain biodiversity all the way from the hummingbird to the black bear." – Priyanka Kumar [54:36]

Notable Timestamps for Key Segments

[03:17] – Kumar’s naturalist background, view on birding
[08:47] – Finding belonging in LA through birds
[12:46] – Birds as an almanac and their healing presence
[21:00] – Discussion of “rasa,” its cultural meaning & rediscovery through birds
[27:27] – Exclusion from Huntington Library; gatekeeping in academia
[38:56] – Habitat, land rights, and advocacy for birds
[41:01] – Field research: goshawks and issues in public land management
[48:43] – Moral and physical implications of stress on birds
[54:36] – Introduction of the “microwild” and call-to-action

Final Takeaways

Birds serve as teachers, healers, and sources of spiritual sustenance.
Truly appreciating nature requires immersive attention, humility, and slowing down.
Institutional barriers can dampen curiosity, but speaking up can catalyze change.
Restoration and preservation of even small natural spaces (“microwilds”) are vital acts of community responsibility and hope.
Every listener is urged to seek, cherish, and protect the pockets of biodiversity where they live.

Podcast Summary: Conversations with Birds

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Dr. Christina Gessler
Guest: Priyanka Kumar
Air Date: November 27, 2025

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Priyanka Kumar’s Background and Philosophy

[02:19]

Kumar is an author of three books—including Conversations with Birds.
She grew up in the foothills of the Himalayas, where she developed a sense of belonging with nature.

[03:44] Kumar on Her Approach to Birds:

"The last thing I want to do is to go into a forest and...wanting to acquire a bird for my list. For me personally...I think that kind of interferes with the music of being in nature."
She emphasizes a practice of deep observation and learning from birds, rather than aiming to check species off a list.

Nature as Counterpoint to Modern Life

[07:51]

Kumar reflects on childhood memories of wandering in nature versus her experience of modern “fragmented” time.
She shares how even in the rush of urban life (Los Angeles), fleeting moments in nature restored her sense of belonging.

[08:47]
Kumar describes how birds near LA helped her reconnect with a deeper, more soulful sense of time:

"Despite all the rational reasons I may have had to not listen to that call, the call was very strong, and...I gave into it. And I've never regretted that."

Grief, Healing, and Human-Bird Parallels

[12:46]

The book’s essays often pair descriptions of birds with parallels in Kumar's personal life, especially moments of grief and transition post-grad school.
Observing water birds and endangered snowy plovers during a time of personal loss underscores the contrast between human isolation and bird community.

[14:32] Kumar on Isolation and Reconnection:

"...being with the birds, bringing them into my daily life was the beginning of opening my eyes to a different way of life, to a way of life that would be more sustaining, that would be more healing, and importantly, that would make me feel more alive."

Rasa, Joy, and Community

[21:00]

Kumar explains “rasa,” a Sanskrit concept meaning “juice,” a rich inner essence essential for art and life, and how she rediscovered it via unexpected encounters with bulbuls in California.
The presence of non-native bulbuls (originally brought for aviaries) in California’s Huntington Gardens reminded Kumar of home and a lost sense of vibrancy.

[26:42]

"These birds were my teachers and they showed me a way out of the materialistic, competitive culture that I was otherwise trapped in."

Exclusion and Gatekeeping: The Huntington Library Experience

[27:27]

Kumar shares a story of being denied access to the Huntington Library’s research collections because she didn’t have a PhD, even though she had a terminal MFA degree—a poignant example of institutional gatekeeping.
The episode highlights how exclusion dampens curiosity and optimism in scholars.

[34:57] Kumar’s Reflection:

"We internalize so much of this that I think that it has this kind of rejection, has the possibility to mute our intellectual curiosity, to mute our intellectual ambition."

The story comes full circle: after publication, she was invited as a speaker at the same library, which subsequently changed its policy.

"I'm glad now that I listened to that voice...that one day that might change circumstances for other young people who would be in my position moving forward." [34:57]

Ecology, Conservation, and Moral Responsibility

[38:56]

Kumar discusses her field research and ethical dilemmas regarding habitat destruction for sensitive species like the goshawk in the Carson National Forest.
She wrestles with critiquing agencies while being mindful of individual efforts within those organizations.

[41:01] Kumar on Public Lands:

"These national forests are our public lands...set aside for you and me and our community and kids in the future to use. And there are also lands set aside for wildlife..."

She notes the asymmetry between commercial pressure (logging companies “banging” on doors) and the quiet use by hikers and wildlife.
Kumar affirms her duty to the public and the wildlife to share these stories, even when difficult.

[48:43] On Habitat and Bird Stress:

"We sometimes think about habitat as though, you know, we need habitat for birds, as though we were giving a home to birds. And, you know, the reality is that we've, we've taken so much away...when our greed begins to devour their habitat, I think it really is a moral issue, that's what it comes down to."

She references E.O. Wilson’s “Half Earth” concept, advocating for the restoration of wild lands.
Emphasizes the importance of human self-reflection, humility, and moral responsibility in protecting ecosystems.

The Concept of the Microwild: Actionable Hope

[54:36]

Kumar introduces her concept of the “microwild”: small pockets of land capable of sustaining diverse species and accessible to communities.
She urges listeners to seek out, enjoy, and protect such spaces, especially as they are vulnerable to development.

[54:36] Kumar’s Call-to-Action:

"I would really hope that this conversation sparked listeners to think about birds in a different way, to think about time spent in nature in a different way, and to consider sinking into time, to consider finding a microwild near you and not only enjoying that microwild, but considering what pressures this microwild is under and how this jewel-like scrap of land can be preserved for you and for many, many children who will grow up in your community in the years to come."

Memorable Quotes and Moments

On the essence of being a naturalist:

"I want to sink into time. I see that experience of being in nature and belonging to nature as a counterpoint to the modern life we live, where our time is fragmented by one too many devices." – Priyanka Kumar [03:44]
On the healing power of birds:

"Sometimes it just takes the right bird to awaken us." – Priyanka Kumar [12:46]
On exclusion in intellectual spaces:

"...it was a painful experience. I don't think I ever had such a short conversation that was quite so piercing." – Priyanka Kumar, on Huntington Library rejection [27:27]
On advocacy and moral urgency:

"What right do we have to, you know, snatch their homes away from them? And how do we prioritize our needs against theirs when their needs are so fundamental?" – Priyanka Kumar [48:43]
On the practical hope of the “microwild”:

"A microwild is a scrap of nature, a pocket of nature that is large enough to sustain biodiversity all the way from the hummingbird to the black bear." – Priyanka Kumar [54:36]

Notable Timestamps for Key Segments

[03:17] – Kumar’s naturalist background, view on birding
[08:47] – Finding belonging in LA through birds
[12:46] – Birds as an almanac and their healing presence
[21:00] – Discussion of “rasa,” its cultural meaning & rediscovery through birds
[27:27] – Exclusion from Huntington Library; gatekeeping in academia
[38:56] – Habitat, land rights, and advocacy for birds
[41:01] – Field research: goshawks and issues in public land management
[48:43] – Moral and physical implications of stress on birds
[54:36] – Introduction of the “microwild” and call-to-action

Final Takeaways

Birds serve as teachers, healers, and sources of spiritual sustenance.
Truly appreciating nature requires immersive attention, humility, and slowing down.
Institutional barriers can dampen curiosity, but speaking up can catalyze change.
Restoration and preservation of even small natural spaces (“microwilds”) are vital acts of community responsibility and hope.
Every listener is urged to seek, cherish, and protect the pockets of biodiversity where they live.

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Conversations with Birds

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Summary

Podcast Summary: Conversations with Birds

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Priyanka Kumar’s Background and Philosophy

Nature as Counterpoint to Modern Life

Grief, Healing, and Human-Bird Parallels

Rasa, Joy, and Community

Exclusion and Gatekeeping: The Huntington Library Experience

Ecology, Conservation, and Moral Responsibility

The Concept of the Microwild: Actionable Hope

Memorable Quotes and Moments

Notable Timestamps for Key Segments

Final Takeaways

Summary

Podcast Summary: Conversations with Birds

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Priyanka Kumar’s Background and Philosophy

Nature as Counterpoint to Modern Life

Grief, Healing, and Human-Bird Parallels

Rasa, Joy, and Community

Exclusion and Gatekeeping: The Huntington Library Experience

Ecology, Conservation, and Moral Responsibility

The Concept of the Microwild: Actionable Hope

Memorable Quotes and Moments

Notable Timestamps for Key Segments

Final Takeaways