Podcast Summary

New Books Network

Episode: Daniel Pollack-Pelzner, "Lin-Manuel Miranda: The Education of an Artist"
Host: Eric LeMay
Guest: Daniel Pollack-Pelzner
Date: December 27, 2025

Overview

This episode features Eric LeMay interviewing Daniel Pollack-Pelzner, author of Lin-Manuel Miranda: The Education of an Artist (Simon & Schuster, 2025), a biography that explores the artistic evolution of Lin-Manuel Miranda—creator of Hamilton and In the Heights. The conversation delves into the challenges and strategies of biographical writing, the dynamics of creative influence, the collaborative processes behind great art, and the personal growth experienced by Pollack-Pelzner through researching and writing this biography.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genesis of the Book

• Origin Story (05:00-10:34):

  • The project began amidst personal upheaval for Pollack-Pelzner, following his firing and subsequent litigation. At the suggestion of a mentor, he was told, “nobody cares about your mutual subject, Shakespeare anymore and that what people would really like is a book about this guy Lin-Manuel Miranda.”
  • Pollack-Pelzner describes a long-standing professional fascination with Miranda, inspired in part by parallels between Shakespearean history plays and Miranda's work.

• Cultural Academic Background (06:27-10:34):

  • Pollack-Pelzner’s study of Shakespeare dovetailed with his interest in contemporary playwrights shaping American identity.
  • He observed Hamilton as “as close as I could get to seeing Henry V next to Queen Elizabeth in 1599” ([08:04]).

2. A Book Written for Students and Young Artists

• Intentional Audience (11:28-15:18):
  • The book's primary audience is not fellow scholars but students—especially aspiring artists and first-generation college attendees.
  • Miranda’s ethos of learning from everyone is highlighted as central: "Who is wise? The one who learns from everyone." ([13:45])
  • Pollack-Pelzner frames the biography like a coming-of-age novel, drawing inspiration from writers such as Maxine Hong Kingston, Charles Dickens, and Sherman Alexie.

3. Miranda as a Sponge: Influence and Originality

• Sources and Influence (16:42-21:36):
  • Miranda’s open embrace of multiple influences is a contrast to Harold Bloom’s anxiety-of-influence concept.
  • Notable: “He loves giving credit to the writers who have come before him...he wanted to show his work and he wanted to place himself in that tradition.” ([17:45])
  • Discussion of consciously mirroring other writers' sentence rhythms and narrative structures (e.g., Robert Caro’s approach influenced a descriptive passage about Miranda’s teacher).

4. Shaping Narrative and Maintaining Suspense

• Cliffhangers and Episodic Structure (22:58-28:18):
  • Pollack-Pelzner deliberately crafted chapter endings as cliffhangers, inspired by binge-worthy television’s episodic suspense: “I always knew what the last line was going to be of the chapter before I started writing it.” ([24:38])
  • Importance of making the artist’s success feel precarious rather than inevitable: “You have to convey how perilous a tightrope it is to walk down.” ([25:42])

5. Representing the Creative Process & Collaboration

• Narrative Compression and Dilation (30:25-35:49):
  • Dilation: Drawing out dramatic set pieces (e.g., opening nights, the Tony Awards).
  • Compression: Collapsing fallow or repetitive periods, focusing instead on productive collaborations and key moments.
  • Metaphor: “Artistic genius is a team sport.” ([34:25])—emphasis on the constellation of collaborators with distinct “superpowers.”

6. The Joys and Frustrations of Collaboration

• Feedback as Growth (44:19-49:21):
  • Pollack-Pelzner’s writing process mirrored Miranda’s creative approach—drafting, seeking feedback (including from family), and revising.
  • Anecdote: Miranda’s exchange with Stephen Sondheim over the ending of Hamilton, which Miranda rewrote after tough feedback: “He would sit with it… and he said he would tell himself, okay, either I’m right or Sondheim is right. But he felt he hadn’t earned it yet if Sondheim wasn’t on board.” ([47:22])

7. Personal Growth as a Writer

• Transformation Through Process (37:37-42:50):
  • Pollack-Pelzner learned from Miranda’s iterative, collaborative process: “He gave me that gift of freeing me from the terror of the blank page to just a kind of iterative process and a pleasure in creation that I hope I’ll be able to take with me.” ([42:38])
  • Watching early drafts of Miranda’s work provided reassurance about the messiness and necessity of revision.

8. Curiosity as Creative Driver

• Confidence and Curiosity (49:21-53:27):
  • Writing the book was fueled by curiosity rather than self-doubt: “Whenever in my life, I replace judgment with curiosity, things do well.” ([50:00])
  • Hosting and musical theater background, lifelong interest in American history, and personal academic journey made Miranda an “ideal, mighty theme.”

9. Looking Forward: The Artist’s Ongoing Education

• Next Steps and Future Projects (53:14-59:00):
  • Pollack-Pelzner discusses the challenge of finding the next big project—possibly waiting for another “phone call” with the right inspiration.
  • Reflects on the process of beginning big projects by breaking them into smaller, manageable pieces, mirroring Miranda’s own strategy.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the book’s inception:
  • “First you have to be fired, and then you have to file a lawsuit against your former employer... and then you have to have one of your mentors call you up… and tell you that what people would really like is a book about this guy Lin-Manuel Miranda.”
    — Daniel Pollack-Pelzner ([05:00])
• On artistic influence:
  • “Lin-Manuel is such the opposite [of Bloom’s theory] that he loves giving credit to the writers… he actually insisted that there be a whole page in the playbill of Hamilton... listing all the copyright acknowledgments…”
    — Daniel Pollack-Pelzner ([17:45])
• On constructing suspense in biography:
  • “You have to convey how perilous a tightrope it is to walk down. And that Lin-Manuel, surrounded by wonderfully creative people at every stage of his life, most of whom don’t go on to be professional artists... that it could go off the rails at many points and that there's a kind of peril and serendipity to the process.” — Daniel Pollack-Pelzner ([25:42])
• On collaboration:
  • “What you’re really arguing, Daniel, is that artistic genius is a team sport.” — Daniel Pollack-Pelzner, quoting a friend ([34:25])
• On approaching daunting projects:
  • “It’s always overcoming the starting inertia that’s the biggest challenge in any project… if it’s 100,000 words and my math is right, 20 chapters, and each chapter is 5,000 words—I know how to write 5,000 words from having done these New Yorker articles...”
    — Daniel Pollack-Pelzner ([59:00])
• On embracing feedback:
  • “Either I’m right or Sondheim is right. But I haven’t earned it yet [if Sondheim isn’t on board]... So either he would jettison it...or he knew he had to earn that moment for the audience.”
    — Daniel Pollack-Pelzner, on Miranda’s process ([47:22])
• On the writing process:
  • “He gave me that gift of freeing me from the terror of the blank page to just a kind of iterative process and a pleasure in creation...”
    — Daniel Pollack-Pelzner ([42:38])
• On curiosity as creative fuel:
  • “Whenever in my life, I replace judgment with curiosity, things do well, and I'm not worried. Is this good or bad? Or can I do it or not? It’s just, I’m curious about this.”
    — Daniel Pollack-Pelzner ([50:00])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [05:00] — Book’s origin story and personal motivation
• [10:34] — Observing Hamilton as living history and the Shakespeare parallel
• [13:45] — The book’s central ethic: learning from everyone
• [16:42] — Miranda’s approach to influence and open acknowledgment
• [24:38] — The importance and method of structuring chapters as cliffhangers
• [30:25] — Handling narrative pace and the importance of collaborators
• [34:25] — Artistic genius as a team sport
• [37:37] — Pollack-Pelzner’s personal growth through writing and Miranda’s model
• [47:22] — Taking and responding to tough feedback (Sondheim anecdote)
• [50:00] — The role of curiosity in creativity
• [59:00] — Breaking big projects into manageable pieces and the importance of starting

Tone & Style

• The discussion is lively, warm, intellectually generous, and often humorous. Pollack-Pelzner is self-deprecating and earnest, reflecting both scholarly rigor and narrative delight. LeMay and Pollack-Pelzner engage with deep respect for the subject and each other, modeling the kind of collaboration and creative openness that are recurring themes in both the biography and the interview.

Conclusion

Pollack-Pelzner’s Lin-Manuel Miranda: The Education of an Artist is not just a biography of a renowned playwright and composer but a guide to the creative process itself, celebrating curiosity, teamwork, and the willingness to learn from everyone. Through thoughtful storytelling, reflective anecdotes, and engaging structure, Pollack-Pelzner both honors his subject and offers valuable insights for anyone interested in creativity, biography, or the arts.

Final Recommendation:
For readers (and listeners) curious about Miranda, the making of modern legends, and how artists (and biographers) find their voice, this episode—and the biography it explores—are essential and deeply rewarding.