Podcast Summary: "Danna Zeiger, Rewriting the Rules (Millbrook Press, 2025)"

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Mel "the Edge" Rosenberg
Guest: Dr. Dana Trachtenberg Zeiger
Date: September 21, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features an engaging interview with Dr. Dana Trachtenberg Zeiger, author of the nonfiction children's book Rewriting the Rules: How Dr. Kathleen Friel Created New Possibilities for Brain Research and Disability. Host Mel Rosenberg and Dr. Zeiger discuss her journey from a decorated neuroscience research career to children's literature, the inspiration behind her debut picture book, challenges of representation in STEM literature, the mechanics of getting published, and the emotional challenges of career change and creative vulnerability. The episode is rich with personal anecdotes, advice for aspiring writers, and thoughtful discussion about the importance of authentic voices—especially in science writing for children.

Main Themes & Key Discussion Points

1. Introduction and Author Background

• [01:34]—[04:54]:
  • Host Mel Rosenberg introduces Dr. Zeiger, highlighting her impressive scientific career and transition to children's literature.
  • Zeiger discusses publishing in top scientific journals (Science, PNAS, Neuron) before turning to writing children’s books.
    Quote:

    “Yeah. Science, PNAS, Neuron, blah, blah, blah. Really great, wonderful, amazing journals.”
    (Zeiger, 04:16)

2. The Genesis of Rewriting the Rules

• [05:29]—[10:32]:
  • Zeiger recounts her formative experience working in Dr. Jack Martin’s neuroscience lab as an undergraduate and meeting Dr. Kathleen Friel, a scientist with cerebral palsy who eventually became the subject of her book.
  • She emphasizes the rarity and importance of disability representation in children's STEM literature. Quote:

    “I don't see many main characters with disability at all, let alone any... I really couldn't find cerebral palsy. And I think that her story is so important for so many reasons in addition to representation...”
    (Zeiger, 08:05)

  • Zeiger reads a lyrical passage from her book, illustrating Friel's perseverance.
    Quote:

    “Dandelion wisps dared Kathleen to make wishes. Kathleen blew, or at least she tried... At last, seeds sailed and laughter soared toward the sky.”
    (Zeiger, 09:34)

3. Transition from Science to Writing for Children

• [10:32]—[16:58]:
  • Zeiger describes being a lifelong writer, with a passion for poetry and literature.
  • Her STEM-focused family background initially limited her to science.
  • The COVID-19 pandemic and its impact on her family led her to resign from her position as a biology professor to homeschool her children—prompting a return to creative writing and the beginnings of her children's book career. Quote:

    “I always, always, always wanted to write books... And I was like, you know what? I need a little time for me. I need something for myself and my soul.”
    (Zeiger, 15:55)

4. Learning the Craft and Breaking into Publishing

• [18:11]—[21:39]:
  • Zeiger shares how she actively sought guidance from established children's writers, joined critique groups, and became involved with SCBWI.
  • She expresses humility and “lifelong learner” mentality:
    Quote:

    “I probably tend to be a little bit more on the self deprecating side to begin with... I know nothing. You know nothing. You know, I think that probably Mitzvot is nice.”
    (Zeiger, 20:46)

  • Importance of seeking feedback and the value of constructive criticism.

5. Navigating the Agent and Editor Process

• [22:01]—[30:34]:
  • Zeiger candidly details her unconventional approach to querying agents and her journey through multiple representatives before working with Gabby at Seymour Agency.
  • Discussion of the manuscript submission process, rejections, revisions, and the eventual sale of Rewriting the Rules.
  • Anecdotes about changing titles and undergoing multiple sensitivity readings. Quote:

    “I did what you weren’t supposed to do. First of all, I did query with my first manuscript... I’m like, shotgun, boom. Go all at once. Go thoughtfully.”
    (Zeiger, 23:20)

  • Her children’s homeschooling schedules enabled her to devote concentrated time to the query process.

6. Emotional Landscape: Vulnerability, Perseverance, and Support

• [30:34]—[39:09]:
  • Zeiger contrasts the emotional experience of scientific publication with releasing a deeply personal children’s book. Quote:

    “Science can be solitary... It’s also not personal. This... I was really so nervous... because this is really a part of my soul and that it feels much more vulnerable to share.”
    (Zeiger, 30:52)

  • Discussion of imposter syndrome, rejection, and perseverance—both in academia and publishing. Quote:

    “I think of a really thick, gnarly rope and like blistery, bloody hands and holding onto that rope... that same kind of perseverance...”
    (Zeiger, 37:00)

7. Parental & Cultural Reactions

• [39:09]—[39:44]:
  • Zeiger explains her hesitancy to share her career change with her parents, given their STEM-centric expectations.
  • Her father’s eventual support and apology becomes an emotional highlight. Quote:

    “He said to me that he was sorry that he hadn't supported this earlier in my life and that... I don't have regrets. I loved what I did.”
    (Zeiger, 39:09)

8. Representation, Authenticity, and Scientific Literacy in Children's Books

• [39:57]—[43:19]:
  • The pair discuss the concept of “own voices” in literature—specifically, the importance of scientists writing STEM books for children for accuracy and authenticity. Quote (Rosenberg):

    “Most of the STEM books for the picture book level are written by people who... are not really scientists.”
    (Rosenberg, 39:57)

  • Zeiger responds that accuracy requires humility and rigorous research, regardless of scientific training, but having scientists as writers confers unique insights.

9. Scientists as Communicators and the Challenges Therein

• [43:19]—[45:47]:
  • Discussion on scientists' communication challenges, hubris, and the necessity to “zoom out” and contextualize research impact for broader audiences.
  • Science is an evolving process, and fact-based children’s literature must grapple with uncertainty and the provisional nature of knowledge. Quote:

    “We get so wrapped up in our world and with our jargon... we forget the bigger picture...”
    (Zeiger, 43:51)
    “For me, not knowing is the most important part of being a scientist... and this is what doesn’t come across in children's books.”
    (Rosenberg, 45:47)

10. Writing Fiction, Lyrical Science, and Book Excerpts

• [46:08]—[48:18]:
  • Zeiger describes enjoying writing fiction as well as nonfiction, and her goal for readers to “learn without realizing” through storytelling.
  • She reads a powerful excerpt from Rewriting the Rules, highlighting themes of perseverance, parental support, and challenging low expectations for disabled children. Quote:

    “No way. Kathleen and her parents walked out the door, leaving behind that doctor forever. This is, like, one of my favorites.”
    (Zeiger, 47:24)

  • Praise for illustrator Jose Bizaillion’s artwork and its role in enhancing representation.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the importance of representation:
  “Kids need to know that it takes hard work... This is not, you know, not a quick, easy jump.”
  (Zeiger, 08:38)

• On vulnerability in writing for children vs. publishing science:
  “I was nervous because this is really a part of my soul and that it feels much more vulnerable to share.”
  (Zeiger, 30:52)

• On the scientific mindset as a source of perseverance:
  “Just stick it through, just stick it through, Just keep going, keep going, keep going.”
  (Zeiger, 37:00)

• On humility and accuracy in children's STEM books:
  “It’s about not having hubris... I dove into... I think it’s about doing the work.”
  (Zeiger, 42:56)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment / Topic | |------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:34–04:54 | Author’s scientific background & transition to children’s books | | 05:29–10:32 | Origin of Rewriting the Rules; Dr. Friel’s influence | | 13:11–16:58 | Leaving academia to homeschool; rediscovery of creative passion | | 18:11–21:39 | Seeking mentorship; learning the craft; joining critique groups | | 22:01–30:34 | Querying agents; submission process; editorial journey | | 30:34–39:09 | Emotional differences: science publishing vs. children's books | | 39:09–39:44 | Family reactions, especially parental support and reconciliation | | 39:57–43:19 | Representation, “own voices” in children’s STEM books | | 43:19–45:47 | Communication challenges of scientists; limits and changes in knowledge| | 46:08–48:34 | Excerpts from the book; discussion of art and theme |

Takeaways for Listeners

• Zeiger’s dual training in science and creative writing yields uniquely authentic STEM children’s books that prioritize accuracy and empathy.
• Her journey illustrates the emotional and professional vulnerabilities of career transition, but also the fulfillment found in pursuing long-held creative dreams.
• The episode underscores the importance of representation (disability, women in STEM, “own voices”) in children’s literature and the need for nuanced science communication.
• Listeners receive actionable advice about breaking into children’s publishing, from finding critique groups to approaching agents, and are reminded that both science and art require humility and perseverance.

Final Thoughts

This episode is an inspiring listen for anyone interested in children's literature, science communication, or navigating big professional changes. Dr. Zeiger’s humility, insight, and passion for both science and writing shine throughout, and the connection to Dr. Kathleen Friel’s story of perseverance and success will resonate with a wide audience.

Highly Recommended:
Rewriting the Rules (Millbrook Press, 2025) — a compelling, lyrical, and beautifully illustrated addition to children’s STEM literature.