Podcast Summary: New Books Network

Episode Title: David Elias, "Into the D-Ark" (Radiant Press, 2025)
Host: Holly Gattery
Guest: David Elias
Date: December 21, 2025

Overview

In this episode of the New Books Network, host Holly Gattery interviews acclaimed Manitoba author David Elias about his new novel, Into the D-Ark (Radiant Press, 2025). The discussion explores the novel’s genesis, major themes—especially disconnection, media, trauma, and gendered emotional labor—as well as Elias’s approach to historical fiction, character craft, and evocative prose. The conversation is rich with literary analysis, personal reflection, and a touch of wordplay around the novel’s enigmatic title.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Evolution of the Book

• Genesis and Scenic Route: Elias describes Into the D-Ark as a project "more than a decade" in the making, evolving slowly as he revisited characters from earlier works like Sunday Afternoon ([04:25]).
• Revisiting Old Characters: The book’s impetus lay in a desire to “spend more time” with certain characters, expanding and deepening their stories.

Quote

"If this book was, you know, a vehicle of some kind, it would have definitely taken the scenic route on its way to becoming published."
— David Elias ([04:25])

2. American TV, Disconnection, and Midcentury Cultural Shifts

• Setting and Technology: The novel is set in early 1960s rural southern Manitoba, during the advent of television—a technological and cultural incursion from the US ([06:20]).
• Test Pattern Motif: The cover features an old TV test pattern, symbolizing the numbing effect of TV and the blurred line between reality and mediated spectacle ([06:20]).
• Medium is the Message: Elias invokes Marshall McLuhan, framing characters as literal embodiments of media theory ([06:20–09:50]).
• Kennedy Assassination: The book juxtaposes local insularity with global trauma as Canadian families witness the Kennedy assassination live on TV—the first time such raw reality intruded into private space ([11:12–14:00]).

Quotes

“It really was opening this relatively isolated rural community, opening it up to the larger North American popular culture. It was a pretty big deal.”
— David Elias ([06:20])

“Corney Martins would be the physical, human embodiment of what it means to become engrossed in the idea that the medium is the message.”
— David Elias ([08:40])

3. Disconnection and the Human Condition

• Theme of Isolation: The novel continually circles around both physical and emotional isolation, with characters separated by trauma, geography, and their own internal prisons ([14:40–16:44]).
• Metaphor of the Ark and Darkness: The literal ark in the story and the metaphorical darkness both represent barriers and depths of alienation.

Quote

"These people are kind of locked into their own world of affliction that they have to deal with. They can't ignore it. It's far too pervasive. And so, yeah, the disconnection is...when you are, you know, really in a state of deep suffering, you are isolated, you are disconnected."
— David Elias ([16:44–18:57])

4. Character Craft and Historical Insight

• Portraying Facial Difference: Sensitive depiction of the disfigured brothers Jake and Corny and their social exile ([26:08–28:31]).
• Mothers and Emotional Labor: Rose, the mother, is portrayed massaging lotion into her sons’ damaged hands, symbolizing futile attempts to heal through love ([28:31]).
• Gendered Dissonance: Elias articulates the greater emotional awareness and responsibility borne by the women—Rose and Martha—as opposed to the men, who retreat into action or silence ([32:00–37:01]).

Quotes

"The female characters are willing to do the heavy lifting...the men are more likely just to excuse themselves from doing that job and putting themselves rather into some sort of an act."
— David Elias ([33:25])

“Even when [Clarence] was absent, like even when Clarence is absent from Rose, right, He's present. But then, flip it. Even when he's present lying right next to her in bed, he's absent. So you have this incredible paradox between the male characters of presence and absence, whereas the female characters, Rose and Martha, are more present not only to each other, but to themselves as well.”
— David Elias ([36:30])

5. The Ark / Dark – Wordplay and Title Significance

• Visual and Thematic Dualism: The slash in the title (“Into the D-Ark”) is a deliberate ambiguity, merging physical darkness and biblical allusion ([29:57]).
• Collaborative Titling: The title evolved through conversation with the publisher, seeking to encapsulate both literal and metaphorical descent ([29:57–32:00]).

Quote

“Let's put a slash between the D and the A in the word dark, and we'll have it both ways.”
— David Elias ([31:40])

6. Research, Craft, and Metaphor

• Blacksmithing as Inner Life: Elias describes Clarence’s ironwork as an outward sign of inner torment—"every single one of those things is a metaphor...for who Clarence is" ([39:41]).
• Photography and Shadow: Martha’s darkroom is treated similarly, uniting craft and psychology ([39:41–42:11]).

7. The Babushka Lady and Historical Intertext

• Martha’s Secret Role: Martha is a fictional stand-in for the enigmatic “Babushka Lady”—a real, unidentified woman seen photographing the Kennedy assassination from a unique angle ([42:11–45:49]).
• Fun with History: Elias enjoyed embedding his character in this unsolved historical mystery.

8. Endings: Ambiguity and Astral Projection

• Dreamlike, Unresolved Climax: Elias intentionally provides an ending that avoids neat closure, instead provoking lingering questions and “work” for the reader ([47:42–49:26]).
• Astral Projection Description: Host Holly describes the ending as splitting her into two spectral selves, underscoring its power and unease ([49:26–50:25]).

Quote

“To me, when a book ends in a place where you as the reader feel that you've been taken, you've been transported a little bit, and that even after you've read the last word, you maybe still have a little bit of work to do. I like that idea.”
— David Elias ([48:55])

9. Next Projects and Closing Thoughts

• Upcoming Writing: Elias is working on manuscripts exploring memoir, time, memory, and personal evolution ([50:33–52:36]).

Quote

“I'm really kind of exploring a lot about, okay, what does it mean to be a human and to evolve, to grow. Not just to change for the sake of change, but to kind of try and find an arrow...”
— David Elias ([51:15])

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Ambience and Pain:

  “There's a certain aspect of mutation, of transformation. And woven through all of this was an unmistakable fabric of disfigurement. Possibly torture.”
  — David Elias reading from the novel ([21:46])

• On Conformity:

  “In that time and place, conformity was a very big part of the culture. Anything that didn’t conform...was really something that would have to be carried by the person.”
  — David Elias ([27:02])

• On The Male/Female Emotional Divide:

  “The men were not demonstrative...Even when someone like that...was absent, he was present because there was this idea of authority.”
  — David Elias ([36:10])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Book’s Origins & Character Genesis: [04:25]
• Television/Media in Rural Canada: [06:20–10:00]
• Kennedy Assassination & Media Theory: [11:12–14:40]
• Isolation and Suffering: [16:44–20:19]
• Reading from the Novel: [21:46–26:08]
• Disfigurement & Conformity: [26:08–28:31]
• On Title and Wordplay: [29:57–32:00]
• Gender Differences in Emotional Labor: [32:00–37:01]
• Creating Clarence/Blacksmith Craft: [39:41–42:11]
• Martha as Babushka Lady: [42:11–45:49]
• The Ending: Ambiguity & Impact: [47:42–50:25]
• What’s Next for David Elias: [50:33–52:36]

Tone and Style

The conversation is thoughtful, literary, and gently philosophical, balancing serious reflection on trauma and alienation with flashes of playful curiosity—especially around words and historical mysteries. Both host and guest engage with compassion for their characters and intellectual excitement for themes of connection/disconnection, history, and the evolution of self.

This summary is designed to capture the essence, flow, and key insights of the episode for listeners who want depth without spoilers.