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Deborah Willis, "The Black Civil War Soldier: A Visual History of Conflict and Citizenship" (NYU Press, 2025)
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- [00:01]
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- [01:04]
Deborah Willis
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Deborah Willis
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Deborah Willis
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- [01:11]
Deborah Willis
Are you.
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- [01:31]
Deidra Tyler
Hello everyone and welcome to the New Books Network. I'm Deidra Tyler, host and today we'll be talking with Deborah Willis, author of the Black Civil War A Visual History of Conflict and Citizenship.
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Deborah Willis
How are you doing today? I am great, thank you. Just traveled back from Washington D.C. last night a show that I co curated entitled Photography and the Black Arts Movement opened at the National Gallery of Art. So I am. My voice may be a little low, so excuse that a bit, but everything is good.
- [02:11]
Deidra Tyler
We can hear you clearly. And thank you for being on the podcast. I wonder if you could tell us a few words about yourself and how you got started on this project.
- [02:22]
Deborah Willis
Okay. I am a professor of photography here at New York University, the Tisch School of the Arts. I'm also, I teach also art history and teaching a class on the black body and the lens. Specifically, I became interested in thinking about memory, personal and public, based on images through History that have been overlooked in terms of black Americans. I worked earlier on a number of photographic projects. A book entitled Reflections in Black A History of Black photographers, which was 25 years ago. And I was fascinated that I found images of Civil War soldiers, not of many. Not. I'm sorry, I didn't find many images of black Civil War soldiers in my research. Early on, I decided to push forward based on the gap that I felt that was missing. Because we all know that there were Civil War. Black Civil War soldiers involved in the war over a period of time and people who had a desire to. To fight, who were free and enslaved. And I worked earlier on another project that focused on what did freedom look like and with another historian, Barbara Krauthammer. So the history of visual culture and American visual culture has always been a part of my life. As I wanted to think about what has been unseen in the images of. During the Civil War. I found like over 500 images initially. Some in the Library of Congress, some at the Schomburg center, the National Archives. So the story began to broaden over a period of time. And what I thought was important to do this book. When I wrote to the New York University Press to find ways. How do we experience the soldiers today, Their desires for free, their desire for freedom, but also that they were. There were public debates about their involvement during the time of the. In the 1860s. So I felt that this was a project that I needed to do.
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Now.
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Deidra Tyler
How did you approach the visual aspects of the history? How did you go about doing that?
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Deborah Willis
There was. There are a number of books about the Civil War. Rarely are they showing images. You know, many historians are always writing texts and writing the narrative based on the experiences, the. Of figures who we well known figures. The visual aspect, for me, I wanted to think about, you know, there were, you know, there was a film Glory that was out sometime some years ago, and then there was a. A. Another. Another film called Django Unchained. Unchained. And then I started thinking about popular culture and filmmaking as well. At the same time, I started to just kind of explore different ways of how these stories are told. I also started, you know, visiting different sites such as Gettysburg and the Cyclorama in Atlanta. And also growing up in Philadelphia, I was always fascinated with history. So I just decided to just go forward, go to the collections, travel around the country. I traveled to Temple University, the Blockson Collection in Philadelphia. And I just started going through the Archives, the Library Company of Philadelphia. I visited Chicago Historical Society, just started going through and trying to compare some. The oral histories that I read from the 1930s, where there were histories. I'm sorry, oral histories that were exchanges and conversations with people who were formerly enslaved, people who were also in the. Who were also in the war. I'm sorry, I'm just kind of. I'm just trying to really revisit this history, you know, from 10 years ago. But I also was working at the Smithsonian when I started thinking about how do we tell this story that had a sense of hope. And the Smithsonian had a collection. So there were all of these places that opportunities, the museums as well as libraries and then individual collectors that gave me a sense to how do I visualize this history? And I found that how do we visualize this histories through not only the drawings, but through photography.
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Deidra Tyler
Absolutely. What were some of the challenges you faced in researching and presenting the experiences of the black Civil War soldiers?
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Deborah Willis
The challenging part for me was how to visualize and synthesize this experience with. From the oral histories, from the narrative histories, from the historians. But the challenges also happen with how to create this story that's puzzling that we overlook. So I started thinking about Virginia and Maryland and how Philadelphia, the role of women in the war, women who left their cities to the northern cities to go south to try to document and educate some of the formerly enslaved people. The challenges were varied in different ways. But I also wanted to go to the records of the. Of women and men, women who were. Whose husband were enslaved but also freed later and then also became soldiers. And I decided to go to the pension records in the National Archives. And I thought that pension records were. Were essential for as they documented many of the women who were widows who tried to. To obtain their husbands, their. Sorry, I'm sorry. I'm just so tired. But to try to obtain their pension for their. Able to survive. And so with that opportunity to have the pension records, I began to see the narratives of how they describe. How the men and women describe their work when they were in. In service, but also that they traveled and they were injured and. And sometimes they were not believed by the government officials. So they had to constantly prove that they were injured in the war. And so that was another challenge for me to find these records, but also to find the materials that were available. The other challenges that I found were trying to find the enlisted soldiers that lived in rural places, such as in the Midwest as well as in the North. Some of the freed soldiers, people who were freed, black men who were freed during. To join the. To join the Civil War, that they Also were making their stories told through newspaper articles and through the memory of the family members. So these were the multiple experience that I found during that time period. I tried to find images that could show the love of the stories that. That express love. I found letters from women and who were. Who husband left for war. But they wrote letters through scribes and to others to make sure that their husbands would have the opportunities to understand when they fought for their freedom, that they were fighting for their children as well as, you know, children who were enslaved. So wanted to try to find the stories that were not often told. That gave us an opportunity to position families, black families, how they shape and empowered themselves through the experience of the war. We know that Frederick Douglass often used his. Had his sons also were two of his sons were also members of the. Of the 54th Mass. And so with that aspect of how do we talk about combat? How do we talk about bonded men and free and free men. Finding letters and diaries of teachers such as Susie King Taylor, who was in South Carolina, who worked with the first Southern South Carolina Volunteers, that she was a laundress teacher as well as. As a cook. But I also found it important to include stories of washer women because the washer women also were also significant figures in terms of health care in the soldiers and making sure their clothes were clean, that they had medicine and that they were able to experience real life experiences for them in letting their families know that they were safe. And so these were these undercurrent stories that circulated in Louisiana as well as in Connecticut. Who others that. That were part of this story. I found collectors such as Greg French, who lives in Boston. Was a great collection of images of portraits of women who took photographs of their married. When they were married before their husband. The freed husbands left for war. And so it was fascinating to find the love stories, the commitment of patriotism to America by many of the soldiers of that time period. So the range that I experienced through this research was I was trying to find the impact of the war of the families, but also the impact on their daily lives. And that's something that I tried to search for over a time period.
- [14:22]
Deidra Tyler
Now, can you tell the audience about Nicholas Biddle and his uniform?
- [14:28]
Deborah Willis
Yes. Nicholas Biddle was from Pennsylvania. He was a servant for one of the lieutenants in the war. And he was an important figure because he was the first injured. First man injured in the war. In the war in the eight going, I guess from Maryland to the. To Washington. So many left Pennsylvania. They were going to fight at the war in Virginia. When they arrived in Maryland, a number of races battle they were in a battle within Baltimore. He was injured and he was on his way to meet President Lincoln. He still he was wearing his uniform. He had a bandage on his head where the Iraq hit him. So he was still bleeding. And his important story became significant because that he was the first man injured in the war in the 1860s black man entered during that time period. So when I think about his story afterwards, he maintained a kind of a physical injury that main and he also maintained his uniform and he was photographed with a portrait of his wearing the uniform as well as the handkerchief that wiped the blood off his off of his forehead. And that opportunity as he traveled around Pennsylvania and other places to talk about the war, he wore his uniform, posed for a photograph and sold his photograph as a storytelling experience. As a war veteran, he was not a soldier, but many of them because many black men were not given guns in their earlier years. So that he became a soldier based on his commitment to working with his lieutenant and others and taking care of as a free man. So these are stories that we know that Biddle spent his time in the war and also told narratives of the war over a time period so good, so good, so good.
- [17:00]
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- [17:09]
Deborah Willis
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- [17:12]
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- [17:59]
Deidra Tyler
Your teen adjective used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained, one who navigates life on their own terms, effortlessly. They do not always show up on time, but when they arrive, you notice an individual complex, confident in their contradictions. They know the rules, but behave as if they do not exist. New Teen, the new fragrance by Miu Miu, defined by you now looking at the black Women. You have such a beautiful photograph of Charlotte Fortin. Tell us more about that.
- [18:36]
Deborah Willis
So Charlotte Fortin was another figure that I found an important person to include in the war, in the story of the war, because of her education. She was focused on teaching women and children and some of the men in the area of South Carolina. She was from Philadelphia. She moved from Philadelphia. She studied at Salem College in Massachusetts, but she moved to South Carolina. She was one of the early women in terms of thinking about how do we tell the story of women. She created an education classrooms and educational centers for some of the children. She also wrote to letters for some of the soldiers. Education for her was significant, and she created a diary about the. About her experience. And her diary was a narrative of the war. Meeting some of the soldiers, some of the food that they ate. She talked about wearing pants. She was a key figure in education and stayed throughout that time period. It's just an amazing time as we think about her life and what she gave to the. To the war, but also to families and to the children who were definitely. Who were in need of a place for education as well as a place for security for their homes. So she was a part of that story. She met many of the soldiers that felt it was important for them to be able to sign their names when they were being paid, even though they were underpaid. That she was there to teach and to create this narrative.
- [20:48]
Deidra Tyler
Now, what was the most surprising discovery you made doing your research?
- [20:54]
Deborah Willis
One of the surprising discoveries was through learning more about the journalists, the black journalists. That there was a. A journalist from Pennsylvania in Harrisburg who wrote narratives and articles about the war. There was another one that I'm trying to recall the name of a letter that a soldier went reaching Richmond, Virginia. There were a number of soldiers were heading back from a battle and mothers were looking for their family members. There was an experience where a mother stopped a number of the soldiers looking for her son who she lost during slavery 20 years. She asked different men, is your name their first names, their last names? So who were their. Who. Who. What was their mother's name? Could they remember? And that there was a mother who was able to identify her son who was a soldier during that time. That was it, to me, was an important story that showed the complexity and the bond that women held over a time period. And so there were my moments of mothers and mother love and mother experiences that I found important. The other was love letters between Helen Logan and her relationship with Lewis Douglas, who was Frederick Douglass son, that over a time period that they were engaged and the hope that they had planned for a relationship of marriage after he returned from war. But over time, they exchanged letters. He would write to her. You know, my dear Amelia, I. I was in two battles. I'm unhurt, But I'm sharing you that some of your neighbors in your hometown in New York and were injured. And he says, if I survive, I shall write you a long letter after this next war. Next. Next battle that we have. And she sent photographs. And they had this exchange over a time period that I found significant in that experience of how important letter writing was for many of the soldiers. So those are kind of the discovery. And the soldier I was about to mention, the black journalist, was Thomas Morris Chester, who was born in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. And he worked as a. One of the journalists from that time period for the Philadelphia Press in 1864. And he published some of the accounts of. He was an eyewitness to many of the battles. And he wrote and published some of the descriptions of what he experienced in the war. And there were some of the stories that I found that were important for me to. To use as a way to visualize that experience.
- [24:30]
Deidra Tyler
Absolutely. And you had a picture of Alexander Augusta that people may not know who he was. Tell us more about him. The surgeon that did surgery.
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Deborah Willis
Yes, the black soldiers, in terms of the experience of. As you know, there's so many moments that I found just amazing that they were nine black surgeons in the war during that time period. And that the portrait of Alexander Augusta was. Was discovered for me in the archive in Baltimore. And he wrote to President August Lincoln at that time that he wanted to fight, but he also wanted to be able to service the black soldiers as. As a surgeon. And his story was unusual. Where he asked to. To basically, he studied in Freedman's Hospital, he studied medicine. He worked at the Friedman hospital in Washington, D.C. but he was compelled, he felt, to leave this country. Study in. I think he studied in Canada. There were a number of soldiers who studied in Canada and moved back. And I think he was one of the ones that studied. But as I'm reliving this experience and some of your questions are so perfect for this moment as we think about history as being erased, but his history preserving his history. He lived and he was born in 1825, died in 1890. He became the first black surgeon to join the Union army and volunteer. He was born in Norfolk, Virginia, and studied in Toronto. And so we began to see the importance of his life and his desire to become a doctor. But he could not study medicine in this country. And so he studied in Toronto.
- [26:45]
Deidra Tyler
Yes. Now, what does the visual evidence that you present in the book contribute to our understanding of that time period?
- [26:55]
Deborah Willis
A sense of pride that that's often overlooked in these historical records that men and women as. As I mentioned with Augusta writing to President Lincoln, his. His letter is in the archives of the National Institute of Health. And it was in an exhibition there called Binding Wounds Pushing African Americans in Civil War Medicine that these records exist. The photographs. To see that photography was a key role for many of these soldiers to express that their determination to fight for freedom, that they. They were also men who were musicians, who were part of the color guard in the war. And so when we think about how photography played a role for it for these soldiers, that they were use photography was a sense of biography and that they use the. Their portraits to show their patriotism, to show their sense of humanity, that they were color guards and the photographs were sent back to families. So when we think about photography, not only the. Some of the photographs were used in. In the war to. As they were fighting and winning medals of honor over a time period. And these are some of the moments that I feel that photography allowed us and still allow us to visualize the importance of many of the men and women who fought. There were also in the book I found marriage certificates of. Of a couple in 1863 that the marriage of two former enslaved people who wanted to marry before they left for war. And these are the moments that we. We see the. The focus that many of the soldiers found that it was important for their stories to be told, that the AME Church was a significant venue for them because they had newspapers like the Christian Recorder, where they describe the experiences of the war and the memory that they bought in South Carolina in different places over time. That these. Why. This is why I believe that the soldiers who. When they achieved status to fight, that they wanted. The first thing they wanted to do when they received their uniforms was to be photographed. And this is part of the reasons why I wanted to create this book and to preserve their memories. Yale University has a wonderful album of photographs that were organized by two white lieutenants that they wrote on the back of the photographs as they describe the men that were part of their regiment. And many of them posed in their uniform and their hats.
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Deidra Tyler
Now tell us how did the perception of that black soldier change over time, both during and after the war?
- [30:38]
Deborah Willis
Many of the soldiers had hoped, as I said, with pension records, that they would be seen and viewed and as men Fully human and ready to work in different capacities over time. Some who were lieutenants, some became journalists, some work for the government. But many had a difficult time. Some of the enlisted men, not the sergeants or lieutenants, had difficult times in terms of returning to the war. But many of them work as mailmen, they. And cooks over time after. After the war. So with that experience, I would say that they were, of course, underpaid, and they. They acknowledged the discrepancy that they felt and felt that it was important for them to tell their story as well as to express their discomfort in some of the articles that they published. But they were committed to feeling the importance that they needed to fight for their freedom.
- [31:58]
Deidra Tyler
If you were to select a photo which depicts a story that everyone should become aware of, which one would it be?
- [32:07]
Deborah Willis
Well, I think that the portrait of Gordon, who was. Has traveled over a period of time. It was published in Harper's Weekly in 1863. But there's a portrait of Gordon, who was enslaved in Louisiana, but he. In Mississippi, in Louisiana, but he entered the war. He left the plantation that he lived on, but he was. There's a photograph where he is scarred. His is called Scarred Back Whipped Peter. And so has many names in terms of the image. But there's a photograph of his back that was documented by some of the surgeons. We see how many times he had been whipped. The. The keloid scars of his back, his pose with his arm crossed. I discovered in my research that there was a photograph when he entered camp. And the image of him entering camp with torn clothes, shoeless, with a hat, that he wanted to join the war. And the two photographs that are central in terms of showing his commitment and the importance that he felt that he needed to fight for freedom. And there is an article that was written, as I mentioned earlier in Harker's Weekly that also shows him in his uniform. It's a drawing, but I have not been able to find that photograph with Gordon, also known as Peter in the uniform. But I find his story and his commitment to freedom and his fight for freedom for not only himself, but for others. We see that this part of this typical story of black men who were essentially fighting on to be free.
- [34:13]
Deidra Tyler
Well, I've taken up enough of your time. Can you tell us the next project you'll be working on?
- [34:20]
Deborah Willis
The exhibition that I mentioned, that I worked on on the Open. Well, there are two projects, so. One, Reflections in Black. It's History of Black Photographers, 1840 to the Present. It's the 25th anniversary of the book. And it's going to it's the exhibition that's up now here at NYU. It's called Reflections in Black. The book launch is November 4th. And the other is Photography and the Black Arts Movement, and it opened this past weekend at the National Gallery of Art. And it's also the photography, the impact of photography on the Black Arts movement and how photography was used as.
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Deidra Tyler
A.
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Deborah Willis
Way of telling the stories, but also visualizing the experience of freedom through the civil rights movement, but also freedom of expression. And that's part of the many story, many projects I'm working on.
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Deidra Tyler
Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast, and we look forward to many other projects in the future.
- [35:36]
Deborah Willis
Thank you so much for your interest in our project and my project. And just I'm honored by this opportunity.