Podcast Summary – New Books Network: Democratic Dialogues: Pathways of Democratic Backsliding, Resistance, and (Partial) Recoveries

Date: October 28, 2025
Hosts: Rachel Beatty Riedel & Issam Vore
Guests: Kenneth Roberts, Jennifer McCoy, Murad (Marat) Sumer, Rachel Beatty Riedel
Episode Focus: Exploring mechanisms of democratic backsliding, pathways of resistance, and the factors that enable (partial) recoveries, drawing comparative insights from 15 countries.

Main Theme Overview

This episode delves into recent cross-regional research on democratic backsliding, summarized in the article “Pathways of Democratic Backsliding, Resistance, and Partial Recoveries,” published in the Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science. The discussion centers on how democracies incrementally erode rather than collapse outright, the dynamics of resistance and recovery, and key lessons for the United States and other countries facing democratic threats.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Democratic Backsliding: Beyond Collapse

• Backsliding is often a gradual process, not a sudden breakdown, and may result in incomplete or fragile recoveries.

• Kenneth Roberts [03:48]:

  “In those 15 countries that we studied, a number of them have experienced at least some sort of recovery point process. And I should hasten to point out the recoveries, they're often very tentative, they're often rather fragile politically, they're often rather incomplete."

• Partial recoveries impact democratic institutions, often leaving them impaired, but resilience is possible with sustained resistance.

Timestamps:

• [03:21] Importance and fragility of democratic recoveries
• [06:28] Nature of resistance: institutional and societal interplay

2. The Role of Collective Action

• Jennifer McCoy [06:28]:

  "In this resistance, we found that collective action is really critical because backsliders... try to divide the opposition... it's really critical to have collective action and to combine efforts to work toward the next elections with mobilization of these broad sectors of society."

• Broad-based resistance—among courts, legislatures, media, civil society, businesses, and even local governments—is essential.

• The U.S. is uniquely vulnerable because it lacks recent lived experience of authoritarianism, leading to overconfidence in institutional safeguards.

Timestamps:

• [06:28] Divide-and-conquer tactics of would-be autocrats
• [08:20] The American context and myth of exceptionalism

3. Four Pathways of Democratic Backsliding

• Murad Sumer [09:08]:

  "There are four different pathways, but in the end they all backslide democracy with similar consequences with the erosion of checks and balances and the erosion of democratic freedoms and rights..."

• The four pathways identified are:

  1. Executive Power Grab
  2. Plebiscitary Override
  3. Legislative Capture
  4. Elite Collusion

• Recognizing the specific pathway at play is key, as it determines which arenas are open or closed to resistance.

• Early recognition allows for strategic, tailored opposition.

Timestamps:

• [09:08] Introduction and summary of the four pathways
• [13:36] Strategically contesting executive aggrandizement and legislative capture

4. The Struggle Against Polarization

• Extreme or “pernicious” polarization, often fueled by leaders, is a central driver of backsliding.

• Jennifer McCoy [18:10]:

  "Extreme polarization... creates this us versus them divides in societies. And it's often instigated by or exacerbated by leaders with their rhetoric that is trying to identify an enemy and try and pull people toward themselves."

• Solutions include coalition-building across divides and focusing on shared interests (e.g., campaigns around “freedom and fairness versus cruelty and corruption”).

• Kenneth Roberts [20:49]:

  "Polarization is especially problematic... when different political actors find that it works for them to attract an audience... by demonizing the other side, exaggerating issues, pulling on fake news."

Timestamps:

• [18:10] The mechanics and dangers of toxic polarization
• [20:49] Counteracting polarization—strategic coalition-building

5. Strategic Agency and the Importance of Frames

• Rachel Beatty Riedel [24:14]:

  "There are real threats to democracy in the United States that we need to take seriously and not dismiss out of hand... There is an enormous amount of agency in this moment for narratives..."

• Contesting autocratization is a contest over political legitimacy and narrative framing.

• Strategic identification of leverage points within institutions is crucial.

Timestamps:

• [24:14] Agency and narrative contest in the U.S. context
• [27:07] Avoiding “shouting harder”—the pitfalls of mirroring extremist tactics

6. Lessons for the U.S. and Other Democracies

• Effective resistance requires:

  1. Strategic Unity: Do not just mirror incumbent tactics; find inclusive, resonant frames.
  2. Overcoming Collective Action Problems: Stand together, recognizing personal risk in defense of the common good.
  3. Self-Reflection and Renewal: Pro-democracy actors must address weaknesses in their own record and organizations.
  4. From Resistance to Recovery: Focus not only on halting backsliding but also on building robust institutions and delivering tangible benefits post-recovery.

• Murad Sumer [27:07]:

  "Success usually results from finding your front line, your battle lines, more strategically and carefully. Like Jennifer said, you need to find the right fault line cleavage based on which you will organize your politics to defend democracy."

Timestamps

• [27:07] The need for strategic response, not polarization escalation
• [33:06] The role of self-critique in democratic renewal
• [35:56] Jennifer: Building community for effective agency

7. Practical Advice for Citizens and Policymakers

• Take democratic threats seriously even if standard institutions remain intact—authoritarians often operate within the law.
• Seek to understand where power resides and where pressure can be applied, not just protest generally.
• Build community and social ties; this is foundational for effective resistance and renewal.
• Learn from comparative cases—democracies such as Poland, Brazil, and South Korea have blocked or slowed backsliding through broad-based action.

Notable Quotes:

• Jennifer McCoy [35:56]:

  "Building community is really important... If we start to rebuild that and work on whatever issue is important, we can rebuild relationships across dividing lines."

• Rachel Beatty Riedel [39:25]:

  "Connect the idea of building community to collectives, to decisions that we make oriented around which kinds of changes we want to see."

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 03:48 | Kenneth Roberts | "Recoveries, they're often very tentative, they're often rather fragile politically, they're often rather incomplete... yet recoveries are possible." | | 06:28 | Jennifer McCoy | "It's really critical to have collective action... to combine efforts to work toward the next elections with mobilization of these broad sectors of society." | | 09:08 | Murad Sumer | "There are four different pathways, but in the end they all backslide democracy with similar consequences..." | | 18:10 | Jennifer McCoy | "Extreme polarization... creates this us versus them divide in societies." | | 20:49 | Kenneth Roberts | "Polarization is especially problematic... it often has sort of an inertial quality. It reinforces itself..." | | 24:14 | Rachel Beatty Riedel | "There are real threats to democracy in the United States that we need to take seriously and not dismiss out of hand..." | | 27:07 | Murad Sumer | "Success usually results from finding your front line, your battle lines, more strategically and carefully..." | | 35:56 | Jennifer McCoy | "Building community is really important. And we've all gotten isolated... there's been a lot of breakdown in community..." |

Timestamps by Segment

• 03:21 – How democracies recover and why resistance is both institutional and societal
• 06:28 – Why collective action matters and the US's unique challenges
• 09:08 – Introducing the four pathways of backsliding
• 13:36 – Institutional 'choice' in backsliding, and how to spot openings for resistance
• 18:10 – Polarization’s dangers and pathways out
• 20:49 – Coalition-building and strategic engagement beyond policy differences
• 24:14 – Agency, framing, and leveraging responses in the American context and abroad
• 27:07 – Strategic renewal, overcoming paralysis, and learning from global cases
• 35:56 – Rebuilding community, long-term reform, and unifying democratic vision

Closing Takeaways

• Backsliding is common, resistance possible but difficult. Recovery is rarely full and always fragile.
• Collective action—spanning institutions and civil society—is vital; autocrats succeed by dividing opposition.
• Recognize and understand your country’s pathway of erosion—it shapes where and how resistance is feasible.
• Polarization is weaponized by aspiring authoritarians; counter by building broad coalitions and finding resonant common causes.
• Take threats seriously, be strategic, build community, and look globally for comparative lessons.

For listeners:
This episode provides nuanced, actionable analysis for protecting democracy against gradual erosion—relevant not only to the United States but to democracies everywhere. The panel’s research and comparative insights offer hope and strategies for resistance and (partial) recovery, while underscoring the hard work required in rebuilding democratic norms, institutions, and communities.