Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Denys Gorbach, "The Making and Unmaking of the Ukrainian Working Class"
Host: Adam Quinn
Guest: Denys Gorbach, Postdoctoral Fellow at Lund University
Date: February 19, 2026

This episode features Adam Quinn’s conversation with Denys Gorbach about his ethnographic book, The Making and Unmaking of the Ukrainian Working Class: Everyday Politics and Moral Economy in a Post-Soviet City (Berghahn Books, 2024). The discussion dives deeply into Gorbach’s fieldwork in Kryvy Rih, Ukraine, exploring the transformation of class, populism, and moral economy in Ukraine from the 1990s to the full-scale war years, and examining how everyday choices, political suspicion, and identity have reshaped the Ukrainian working class.

Fieldwork and Methodology

Extensive Ethnography in Kryvy Rih

• Immersion in Field: Gorbach spent about one year in Kryvy Rih over multiple visits, with a continuous stay of seven months ([01:06]).
• Multiple Methods: His research involved interviews, participant observation (including two months working at a "Screenwind" window assembly factory), and archival research in local libraries ([01:06–02:56]).
• Insider–Outsider Challenges: While familiarity with his native city offered some help, being local neither considerably eased access nor mitigated research bias ([03:36]).

  “Having too much information may make you biased.” — Denys Gorbach ([04:18])

Rethinking Populism and Class

From Populism to Everyday Politics

• Analytical Shift: Gorbach began with a Marxist interest in populism but found the concept limiting and controversial, especially in academia ([05:05]).

  “In academia… populism… is considered to be a swear word, especially… in France.” — Denys Gorbach ([05:27])

• Focus on Everyday Politics: He re-centered his analysis on “everyday politics,” “class,” and “moral economy,” using these to understand how political engagement manifests without formal ideological structures ([05:05–07:14]).

  “Populism as… apolitical politics—the ways of being political without participating in a movement, without sharing a coherent ideology.” — Denys Gorbach ([06:45])

Understanding Class and Moral Economy

• Thompsonian View: Class is relational, formed by interactions, not simply defined by economic position ([07:39]):

  “‘Workers do not carry their number plates like cars on their backs.’… It is a relation… a field of force created by daily interactions.” — Denys Gorbach ([08:10])

• Moral Economy: Everyday relations are regulated by implicit norms and obligations linking people to each other and to authorities, shaping their sense of fairness and entitlement ([08:54]).

The Political Economy of Everyday Life

Housing Privatization and Moral Economy

• Privatization Experience: Unlike some post-Soviet countries, Ukraine transferred housing to inhabitants for free, providing a sense of security amid economic hardship ([10:42]).

  “A piece of the world that is my own… a piece of security newly obtained, and that is my flat.” — Denys Gorbach ([11:25])

• Ambiguous Property Regimes: Housing is “privatized” but with continuing public expectations around utilities and services, blurring boundaries between state and private spheres ([12:07]).
• Shifts in Authority Discourse: Authorities initially tolerated non-payment of utilities during hard times but later demanded market payment, using moral arguments ([14:27]).

  “Would you steal a bread from the shop? No, you wouldn’t. Why are you stealing heating or electricity without paying?” — Denys Gorbach ([15:11])

Factory “Ownership” and Perceived Legitimacy

• The Case of Kryvy Rih’s Steel Mill: Official privatization did not erase local perception that big factories still “belong” to the public, especially those built in the Soviet era ([16:29]).

  “Everyone... refers to it as being run by the Hindu... but it is quite common to call it public or state owned... betrays the underlying understanding that... it is still understood... as belonging to the public domain.” — Denys Gorbach ([18:01])

• Contrast with Newer Enterprises: Factories founded post-Soviet Union (like Screenwind) are accepted as genuinely private, and their ownership is rarely contested, even if unpopular ([19:17]).

Evolution of Factory Regimes and Worker Agency

Shifting Regimes: From Soviet, to Post-Soviet, to “Post-Post-Soviet”

• Legacy Regimes: The “Soviet factory regime” linked workers and management in paternalistic relationships; the “post-Soviet regime” involved strategies to survive the collapse, such as barter and job hoarding ([20:41]).
• The “Post-Post-Soviet” Era: By the 2010s, new patterns emerged:
  • Neo-Fordism: Oligarch-run factories reviving paternalistic practices.
  • Neoliberal Regimes: Newer enterprises, like Screenwind, adopt harsh, market-based management, seen as legitimate by workers due to their perceived true private status ([24:12]).

  “At enterprises that are run by oligarchy... owners deliberately resuscitate the paternalist spirit... [but] Screenwind... goes completely neoliberal.” — Denys Gorbach ([24:37])

Worker Job Choices and Mobility

• Agency & Constraints: Workers circulate between institutions. Choices (dangerous but secure big factories vs. flexible but harsh private factories) reflect a struggle for autonomy, but real agency is limited ([25:51]).

  “These spaces are not enclosed, they are shared… It is one perspective… Free agency versus secure employment.” — Denys Gorbach ([26:53])

Identity, Politics, and Moral Economy in Crisis

Identity Fluidity and Manipulation

• National Identity and Local Power: Identities in Kryvy Rih are “extremely fluid,” shaped by shifts in national and local political narratives ([28:34]).

  “By reading old newspapers I realized how different... the meaning of these words [‘Russian’/‘Ukrainian’]... back in the early 90s compared to the early 2000s.” — Denys Gorbach ([28:42])

• Instrumentalization from Above and Below: Political parties and local elites found that mobilizing around identity outlasted attempts to build movements on other issues ([29:11]).

  “Founding your political force on ethno-linguistic belonging turned out to be a winning bet.” — Denys Gorbach ([29:44])

• Strategic Distinction: Intellectuals and some workers embrace the national Ukrainian identity as a form of distinction and advancement, even at odds with local majorities ([32:55]).

The War and Persistence of “Apolitical” Engagement

• Popular Mobilization in 2022: War triggered mass mobilization, including many previously politically “disengaged” individuals—but this mobilization was not nationalist or ideological, but protective of private, everyday life ([36:09]).

  “People are still protecting their private space… from the intrusion of politics. If before… politics tried to intrude… now it is basically the same story, only… politics comes in the shape of bombs and missiles.” — Denys Gorbach ([38:13])

• Low Trust in Politics: Distrust of politicians fuels hope for apolitical, “clean” leaders, and sometimes a longing for a decisive, authoritarian figure ([40:57]):

  “They tapped on the precisely correct chords… [Zelenskyy’s] team… made a point of not promising anything.” — Denys Gorbach ([43:03])

Zelenskyy and the Apolitical Messiah

• Zelenskyy’s Election: Early enthusiasm was tied not to local roots but to a desire for a leader untainted by political corruption ([42:24]).
• Predictable Disillusionment: Disillusion set in quickly, but not as sharply as with past presidents. Corruption is blamed on “the team” rather than Zelenskyy himself ([45:49]).

  “He is still there, rather ours, one of ours, one of the like non-tainted guys... who is simply being tricked, cheated by the people in… power around him.” — Denys Gorbach ([46:30])

• Authoritarian Hopes: While far-right groups agitate, so far, wartime support for the army has not translated into broad popular support for authoritarian governance ([48:45]).

The Limits of Grassroots Politics and Prospects for Change

Persistent Abstention from Formal Politics

• Legacy of Trauma: The post-Soviet collapse produced deep cynicism and retreat to private life, making collective political organization rare—even when mass mobilization occurs ([51:02]).

  “At the limit... I can accept the term trauma to briefly refer to the factors... Behind all this.” — Denys Gorbach ([51:16])

• Informal Networks: Everyday politics is enacted through networks of friends, relatives, or ad-hoc collectives, but formalizing them into parties or institutions is met with resistance ([52:51]).

  “Whenever there is a suggestion to make it actual political party… immediately it is an outrage.” — Denys Gorbach ([53:19])

War’s Impact on Moral Economy and Local Power

• Return to Crisis Patterns: The war has thrown the city back into an “extraordinary survival” mode similar to the 1990s ([57:35]).

  “The city is being bombed back into the 90s, so to say, in this sense.” — Denys Gorbach ([59:21])

• Reshuffling Local Power: Formerly “pro-Russian” politicians reinvent themselves as hyper-patriotic, attempting to maintain control and legitimacy amid upheaval ([59:39]).

Future Research Directions

• Ukrainian Refugee Strategies: Gorbach’s current research tracks Ukrainian refugee experiences in Western Europe, focusing on adaptation and identity renegotiation ([61:28]).

  “This year... we re-interviewed [our interlocutors]. So I think this will be an interesting thing to trace—the way people accommodate or not, the way people choose to, sometimes, to go back to Ukraine or... integrate.” — Denys Gorbach ([61:49])

• Conspiracy Theories & Social Suspicion: Another project involves the societal role of suspicion and conflicts around conspiracy theories in Belgium and, in the future, in post-socialist contexts ([62:38]).
• Everyday Life Vignettes: Emphasis on how these attitudes manifest in everyday stories—including “East Slavic paganism and complete distrust” ([64:46]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Fieldwork Bias:
  “Having too much information may make you biased.” ([04:18])
• On Populism:
  “Populism as… apolitical politics—the ways of being political without participating in a movement, without sharing a coherent ideology…” ([06:45])
• On Housing Privatization:
  “A piece of the world that is my own… and that is my flat… a little piece of security newly obtained.” ([11:25])
• On Persistent Disengagement:
  “People tend to do very political things, vehemently denying the political nature of these things…” ([36:48])
• On Zelenskyy’s Appeal:
  “We are not politicians. We do not give out any promises.” ([43:20])
• On the Army's Trusted Status:
  “Army is the most trusted institution… not because people adore generals and want military to run the country, but simply because the army… was the reservoir of shared formative experience…” ([52:05])

Suggested Listening Timestamps

• Fieldwork & Method: [01:06–03:19]
• Populism, Class, and Moral Economy: [04:47–09:30]
• Privatization & Moral Economy in Housing: [10:42–15:11]
• Legacy Factories vs. Private Enterprises: [16:29–20:11]
• Shifting Factory Regimes & Worker Agency: [20:41–27:58]
• Fluid Local/National Identity & Manipulation: [28:34–36:09]
• War, Mobilization, and Apolitical Politics: [36:09–40:57]
• Zelenskyy’s Election and Popular Attitudes: [42:24–49:56]
• Limits of Grassroots Mobilization: [51:02–57:35]
• War Shocks & Local Political Reshuffling: [57:35–61:12]
• Current and Future Research: [61:12–65:20]

This summary preserves the original tone and depth of the conversation, offering a comprehensive guide to the episode's key arguments, examples, and analytical insights for listeners and readers interested in post-Soviet change, working class politics, and contemporary Ukraine.