Podcast Summary: Doing the Work of Equity Leadership for Justice and Systems Change

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Dr. Christina Gessler
Guest: Dr. Dakota Irby
Release Date: November 20, 2025

Overview

This episode explores the book Doing the Work of Equity Leadership for Justice and Systems Change, edited by Dr. Dakota Irby and Dr. Ann Ishimaru, published by Teachers College Press. The conversation delves into the decade-long research behind the book, focusing on equity leadership in U.S. school districts, the intersections of justice and systemic change, and centering narratives of Black women and women of color in educational leadership. Dr. Irby shares insights from his academic and personal journey, key concepts and frameworks from the book, and strategies for developing sustainable and just organizational systems in education.

Key Discussion Points

1. Dr. Irby’s Academic and Professional Journey

Timestamp: 01:59–12:58

• Background & Influences:

  • Grew up in South Carolina with little awareness of academic careers such as doctoral work.
  • Early curiosity about fairness, systems, and economics led him to undergraduate work in economics, then graduate studies in geography, urban studies, and ultimately a Ph.D. in urban education.

• Professional Commitment:

  • Dedicated to advancing educational justice and dignity for Black and Brown students.
  • Roles include professor, co-director of UIC’s Center for Urban Education Leadership, and director of the Brothers Teaching Initiative.

  Quote:
  “I’m deeply committed to advancing educational justice equity and ensuring that black and Brown students are treated with dignity in their education spaces.” (Dr. Dakota Irby, 02:12)

• Formative Experience:

  • Work at the Avery Research Center for African American History and Culture exposed him to the richness and importance of knowledge production and African diaspora scholarship.

2. Book’s Core Themes and Rationale

Timestamp: 12:58–14:21

• The book emerges from nearly a decade of primary research, partnerships, and interviews with educational leaders.

• Uniquely couples equity leadership with justice and systems change, moving beyond the personal to a larger analysis of how systems shape both oppression and opportunity.

  Quote:
  “…this book is really about how leadership is used to actually reshape the norms and the rules of the system itself in ways that allow people…to be able to do whatever that thing is that they want and need in a self-determined way.” (Dr. Dakota Irby, 18:30)

3. Defining Key Concepts: Equity vs. Justice

Timestamp: 21:05–25:39

• Equity: Not just equality of opportunity, but fairness in process and outcomes. Achieved through redistributing resources and opportunities to those who need them most.

• Justice: Broader than equity, focused on power dynamics, liberation, dignity, and rectifying oppression.

• Example: Book bans represent attacks on justice, as they erase and devalue the histories of marginalized communities.

  Quote:
  “We achieve equity not by giving people equal resources, equal opportunities. We achieve it by redistributing resources and opportunities in a way that that produces a more equitable outcome.” (Dr. Dakota Irby, 21:43)

4. Book Structure: Morning, Midday, Evening Framework

Timestamp: 25:39–37:03

• Morning: Era of consciousness-raising, beginning around Trayvon Martin’s death, marked by increased awareness and initial policy efforts.

• Midday: Proliferation and institutionalization of equity leadership, including the creation of equity offices, adoption of diverse curricula, and restorative practices.

• Evening: Backlash and resistance (e.g., attacks on DEI, critical race theory bans, firings, threats). Leadership responds by building networks and solidarity.

• Night/Future: Current political pushback seen as a “night” before another transformative “morning.”

  Quote:
  “The morning people became increasingly conscious, aware and concerned... then we move into part two of the book, which is about, we call midday. The midday is marked by a proliferation of equity leadership activities... then the final part of the book is evenings... where there was a lot of resistance.” (Dr. Dakota Irby, 26:22–31:11)

• Intentional Centering of Black Women: Each section opens with Black women’s leadership narratives, reflecting their central—yet often unrecognized—role in systems change.

5. Inside the Chapters: Appreciating Unsuccessful Leadership

Timestamp: 39:54–47:22

• Chapter 3: “Appreciating the Fruits of Unsuccessful Leadership—Looking Back to Seed Forward”

  • Many equity leaders felt their work yielded little progress; however, subsequent years (COVID-19, racial reckoning) revealed these foundational efforts bore fruit later.
  • Draws historical parallels to freedom seekers and activists whose work enabled later generations to benefit.

  Quote:
  “When you’re doing the work of equity leadership, you won’t see the fruits of your labor... but the work is worthwhile, important and necessary. The struggle lays the groundwork for those who come behind you.” (Dr. Dakota Irby, 46:49)

6. Organizational Routines and Sustainable Change

Timestamp: 47:22–55:07

• Chapter 6: “Designing Work Routines and Processes—Tools and Infrastructure of Strategic Equity Leadership”

  • Focuses on embedding equity considerations not just in individual policies, but in the routines and decision-making infrastructure (e.g., student voice on committees).
  • Highlights the shift from isolated practitioners (morning) to resourced, systemic positions (midday).
  • Emphasizes processes over individual charisma for sustained, scalable change.

  Quote:
  “His approach is to think about what are the formal governing bodies that exist within a particular school in a particular district, and how do we actually create the processes so students have voice and representation… as opposed to trying to create something new.” (Dr. Dakota Irby, 50:51)

7. Takeaways and Hopes for Readers

Timestamp: 55:44–58:21

• Despite constant oppression and institutional pushback, the book emphasizes creativity, fortitude, and collective power.

• The hope is for readers to:

  • Appreciate the courage and creativity of equity leaders,
  • Gain actionable ideas for justice-oriented leadership,
  • Find hope and perspective—work done now strengthens future possibilities, even amid setbacks.

  Quote:
  “A probable future is the future that we get when we do what is familiar... A preferred future is something that we can pursue. …We hope that they close the book and leave this book having a sense of what some things are that they can do to work towards that preferred future and also have some hope...” (Dr. Dakota Irby, 56:30)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the nature of systems:
  “It actually takes a tremendous amount of energy and wherewithal to not stand up... And that's how, that's how systems work.” (Dr. Dakota Irby, 16:26)

• On the difficulty and legacy of equity work:
  “Doing the work of equity leadership is about pursuing something that you may not necessarily see the benefits of in the time that you're actually doing the work, but that the work is worthwhile, important and necessary.” (Dr. Dakota Irby, 46:48)

• On Black women’s central role in justice work:
  “It really has been their creativity, courage, ingenuity, fortitude that has led to a lot of the improvements and benefits that black and brown children have experienced in schools.” (Dr. Dakota Irby, 36:08)

Important Segment Timestamps

| Segment Topic | Timestamp | |----------------------------------------------------|------------------| | Introduction/Guest Background | 01:34–12:58 | | Defining Equity & Justice | 21:05–25:39 | | Book’s Structure & Framework | 25:39–37:03 | | Chapter 3: Appreciating Unsuccessful Leadership | 39:54–47:22 | | Chapter 6: Organizational Routines/Practices | 47:22–55:07 | | Takeaways & Closing Reflections | 55:44–58:21 |

Conclusion

Dr. Dakota Irby’s conversation is both a blueprint and a testament to the ongoing, often unheralded work of equity leadership in education. Listeners are encouraged to recognize the systemic nature of both oppression and progress, the enduring contributions of Black women leaders, and the hopeful reality that the seeds planted today—no matter how small or unappreciated—may become the foundations for future justice and liberation.

Host: Dr. Christina Gessler
Guest: Dr. Dakota Irby
Book: Doing the Work of Equity Leadership for Justice and Systems Change (Teachers College Press, 2025)

For those committed to system-level change, this episode is a vivid guide and a source of inspiration for navigating--and transforming--the long arc of justice in education.