Podcast Summary: Dr. Michael Ebel on Seeds of Equanimity, Knowing, and Being

Podcast: New Books Network — Imperfect Buddha Podcast
Host: New Books (Imperfect Buddha)
Guest: Dr. Michael Ebel
Date: December 13, 2025
Book Discussed: Seeds of Equanimity, Knowing, and Being by Dr. Michael Ebel

Episode Overview

This episode features Dr. Michael Ebel, a psychotherapist, academic, and author of Seeds of Equanimity, Knowing, and Being. The discussion explores the concept of equanimity beyond its standard portrayal within mindfulness and Buddhist traditions, delving into its broader philosophical and psychological genealogy. Ebel challenges conventional definitions, proposing a dynamic, flexible, and non-teleological understanding of equanimity, relevant not only for spiritual practitioners but for anyone interested in psychological agility and meaningful living.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Dr. Ebel’s Background and Motivation

• Academic Roots: PhD in medieval studies, formerly taught at several universities, including the University of Virginia and Georgetown (04:17).
• Transition to Practice: Saw a need for real-world applications of psychoanalytic and psychological ideas, especially in work with military veterans (04:16–05:52).
• Synthesis: Ebel’s work is the product of interweaving intellectual history, psychotherapy, and lived experience.

“The really interesting work for me is taking a concept and providing a kind of historical and philosophical context for it… which really led to the present book on equanimity.”
— Dr. Michael Ebel (05:44)

Redefining Equanimity: Not Mere Stillness

• Common Misconceptions:
  • Equanimity is often reduced to “stillness,” a solid, emotionless state achieved by regulation (08:03–08:45).
• Dynamic and Processual:
  • Ebel asserts that equanimity should be seen as an ongoing process — not fixed stillness or immunity to emotions, but “a continual rebalancing” and “resolute mobility.”
  • He contrasts static images (e.g., “sitting like a mountain”) with a more spacious, adaptive awareness that integrates all experience, beyond binary distinctions (pleasure/pain, acceptance/rejection).
• Purposeless Purpose:
  • Argues for equanimity as a non-teleological practice, akin to play or dance — “its end is in itself” (08:45–16:15).

“Equanimity was not a safe place… It’s rather a kind of spacious awareness and not at all a buffer against the kind of tonalities of feeling... Equanimity becomes… that relationship to the world that incessantly folds everything into a more capacious awareness.”
— Dr. Michael Ebel (09:11)

“We move… beyond the kind of profound inner stillness where stillness… is one option, but it's an option among others.”
— Dr. Michael Ebel (10:25)

Equanimity’s Place in Buddhist & Western Perspective

• Richness in Buddhist Contexts:
  • Equanimity is central in Buddhist frameworks — the final element of the Eightfold Path, the last of the Brahma Viharas, the culmination of meditative absorption (16:57–20:31).
  • But Ebel sees value in disentangling the concept from strictly Buddhist or spiritual lenses, advocating for an open-hearted, multi-perspectival approach.

“I wanted to examine what that means, to step back to create space. [Equanimity is] a way to allow others to proceed in the way they wish, rather than imposing one's preferences…”
— Dr. Michael Ebel (19:15)

Practical Applications: From Trauma to Everyday Life

• Equanimity vs. Mindfulness vs. Pathology:

  • Equanimity enables psychological flexibility, important for those with PTSD or anxiety (23:13–27:30).
  • Distinguishes between the "spotlight" focus of PTSD and the more holistic observing stance of mindfulness; equanimity allows flexible shifting between modes of attention.
  • Emphasizes non-pathologizing attitudes: “PTSD is a way of seeing the world... Equanimity allows the shift or oscillation between those two.” (26:18)

• Modern Malaise, e.g., Phone Use:

  • The “brain drain” of constant phone presence mirrors hypervigilance, restricting awareness (29:34–33:07).
  • Advocates for developing fluid “figure and ground” awareness and not becoming stuck in narrow patterns of attention.

“Attentional resources that are otherwise available for a kind of fluid moment-to-moment awareness are here recruited for the narrow purpose of a kind of hypervigilance…”
— Dr. Michael Ebel (29:50)

Multi-Perspectivism & The Provisional Nature of Knowing

• Open-Ended Inquiry:
  • Equanimity values “unfinished business” — knowledge and perspective as evolving, provisional, and experimental rather than dogmatic (33:44–36:08).
• References to Buddhist Ehipasaka (“Come and see for yourself”):
  • Encourages holding answers lightly, welcoming continual questioning and new points of departure.

“Each insight that equanimity can offer us is just one more point of departure for further inquiry.”
— Dr. Michael Ebel (35:50)

Playfulness & Homo Ludens

• Equanimity as Play:
  • Playfulness is a key aspect — not naive, but an adult’s flexible engagement with possibility and ambiguity (36:08–41:12).
  • Play suspends the burden of utilitarian “why” — ambiguity becomes the source of wonder, not anxiety.

“Play engenders… opportunities for light-hearted, light-minded deference, which is a term I use a lot to sort of characterize what I think equanimity is about…”
— Dr. Michael Ebel (39:19)

• Travel as Play:
  • Travel exemplifies equanimity: embracing undecidability, negotiating new possibilities, enjoying ambiguity.

The Metaphor of Seeds

• Seeds as Dynamic Potential:
  • Seeds symbolize open potentiality, uncertainty, and the richness of enactive knowledge (41:41–42:59).
  • Planting seeds is an act of cultivating possible futures, not guaranteed outcomes.

“Seeds were the sort of operative metaphor for the whole book, because I found in seeds precisely the kind of dynamism that I was trying to capture.”
— Dr. Michael Ebel (41:41)

The Transformative Power of Language

• Vocabulary as Practice:
  • Providing people with new language offers transformative ways to know and exist, especially in therapeutic work with veterans (44:29).

“Providing them with a vocabulary that itself is transformative of the ways that they know and exist in the world…”
— Dr. Michael Ebel (44:34)

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “[Equanimity is] a continual rebalancing and a sort of essential mobility in everyday life.” — Dr. Michael Ebel (12:39)
• “Its end is in itself. It’s like play, which I talk about… it doesn’t aim at a specific result.” — Dr. Michael Ebel (14:23)
• “Equanimity allows us to really celebrate [the world’s] possibilities because it sees the field of possibilities as richly animated.” — Dr. Michael Ebel (39:07)
• “Each insight that equanimity can offer us is just one more point of departure for further inquiry.” — Dr. Michael Ebel (35:50)
• “Knowledge is enactive, not inactive… predicated on this kind of exploratory reach of our minds and our bodies.” — Dr. Michael Ebel (42:07)

Important Timestamps

| Segment | Time | |--------------------------------------|-----------| | Dr. Ebel’s background/introduction | 04:15–06:09| | Rethinking equanimity: not stillness | 08:03–16:15| | Equanimity in Buddhist context | 16:57–20:31| | Practical applications (PTSD/mindfulness) | 23:13–27:30| | Relating to technology/smartphones | 29:34–33:07| | Multi-perspectivism | 33:44–36:08| | Playfulness and ambiguity | 36:08–41:12| | Seeds as metaphor | 41:41–42:59| | Language as practice | 44:29 |

Conclusion & Further Resources

• Dr. Michael Ebel urges us to reconsider equanimity beyond calm or stoicism, as an open, dynamic, playful, and relational stance towards both self and world.
• Seeds of Equanimity offers a rich, non-prescriptive intellectual history and practical framework for anyone interested in psychological flexibility, presence, and living with ambiguity.
• Where to Find More:
  • Dr. Ebel’s works: Academia.edu and ResearchGate (45:02)
  • Book Seeds of Equanimity, Knowing, and Being: Available in Europe, forthcoming in the US via Amazon and selected distributors (45:02)

Host’s Closing Reflection:
“Just reading, reflecting, and thinking and allowing these words to kind of work on us is a kind of practice all of its own, right?” (44:09)

Dr. Ebel’s Response:
“Yeah, absolutely… providing them with a vocabulary that itself is transformative of the ways that they know and exist in the world…” (44:29)

For Listeners

This episode will appeal to those intrigued by mindfulness, psychotherapy, Buddhist studies, philosophy of mind, or anyone seeking ways to thrive amid uncertainty. Dr. Ebel’s conversational intelligence, practical wisdom, and commitment to genuine inquiry “plant seeds” for further personal and intellectual exploration.