Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network – Nordic Asia Podcast
Episode Title: Drama of Democracy: Political Representation in Mumbai
Date: March 6, 2026
Host: Kenneth Born Nilsson
Guest: Lisa Bjorkman (Anthropologist, University of Louisville & Max Planck Institute)
Book Discussed: Drama of Democracy: Political Representation in Mumbai (University of Minnesota Press)

Overview

This episode explores Lisa Bjorkman’s new book, Drama of Democracy: Political Representation in Mumbai, which uses deep ethnographic research to uncover how Mumbaikars engage with, interpret, and evaluate political performance, crowds, and democratic representation. The conversation challenges Western theoretical frameworks by centering ordinary citizens’ evaluative capacities and looks at the dynamics of political rallies, party splits, money flows, and mass protest, particularly in the context of the Citizenship Amendment Act (CAA).

Main Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Stage: Political Performance as Entry Point

Bjorkman describes starting her book with the recent split within the Shiv Sena party, observing a dramatic contest for the title of "the real Shiv Sena" during the Dussehra festival through competing rallies.
The focus is not on the split per se (a common occurrence in Indian politics), but on the “performance” of authenticity via mass assemblies.
The media’s framing of these as “the grand sena shows” inspired Bjorkman’s inquiry into the theatricality of political representation (02:26–09:32).
She positions her methodology at the intersection of political ethnography and performance studies, arguing that democratic ‘performance’ should be analyzed with attention to audience uptake—not just to what politicians do, but how publics interpret and act on these performances.

Notable quote:

“Conventional thinking is: parties compete to represent people. Here, people gather in competition to represent a party.”
— Lisa Bjorkman [05:40]

Research Trajectory: From Water Infrastructure to Democratic Drama

Bjorkman’s fieldwork began during Mumbai’s 2012 municipal elections, spurred by leftover questions from her research on water infrastructure.
She found that boundaries between formal/informal politics collapse in the city—“there is no outside of elections, it’s always election season” (10:08–16:22).
An observation emerging from US media after Trump’s election (fact-checking crowd sizes) contrasted with Mumbai, where such pronouncements were not fact-checked, but countered by trying to upstage the spectacle.

Notable quote:

“Instead of fact-checking, they would try and upstage... If someone puts on a show that makes us look bad, you put on a bigger, more compelling display.”
— Lisa Bjorkman [12:22]

The Concept of Crowds, Publics, and Political Evaluation

In Mumbai, the “crowd” is often synonymous with the “public” using the English-origin word. Contrary to much Western theory (where the crowd is irrational, and public is discursive), crowds in Mumbai are seen as rational, evaluative entities (17:03–25:35).
Rallies are not just “shows” but sites where participants keenly observe and assess each other and the relational labor that went into building the crowd. The importance of images: “the size of the public will be the size of the image.”
Evaluating rallies is thus more than numbers; attendees judge the “strength,” relational networks, and moral appropriateness of the performance and participation.

Notable quote:

“The crowd is a public and also has its own publics, because when the crowd is imaged... those circulate in ways that produce other kinds of publics.”
— Lisa Bjorkman [18:47]

Protest, the CAA, and New Modes of Mobilization

In later chapters, the focus shifts to the anti-CAA protests in 2019–20.
Unlike electoral rallies (where politicians claim the crowd), here all major political parties disavowed organization, and activists explicitly orchestrated both participation and public image to avoid being branded as “party shows” (26:43–36:28).
Protestors curated the aesthetics of the crowds, e.g., hand-written placards (to resist allegations of mass organization), absence of party insignia, and explicit attempts to appear diverse—not only as Muslims.
The “crowd” became an infrastructure for individual voices rather than a singular public will.

Notable quote:

“The crowd becomes actually the infrastructure by means of which people seek to project their individual voices or individual perspectives.”
— Lisa Bjorkman [34:50]

Majoritarianism, Hindutva, and Grounds for Optimism

The rise of Hindutva and the dominance of the BJP frame contemporary concerns about Indian democracy and “democratic backsliding” (36:28–48:56).
Yet, Bjorkman ends on a “non-bleak” note, highlighting a pragmatic, non-ideological political practice observed ethnographically; narratives of majoritarian identity often mismatch lived, everyday choices and allegiances.
She references a CPR survey post–Ayodhya Ram Mandir inauguration: while many voters (even a third of BJP supporters) saw it as a political stunt rather than “rectification of historical wrongs,” most still enjoyed the spectacle.

Notable quote:

“If people are not necessarily believing in the literal interpretation… this is not a story of truth and lies. But ok, clearly this is inhabiting a theatrical or some sort of performance register.”
— Lisa Bjorkman [39:50]

Bjorkman sees evidence for ongoing dissent, critical evaluation, and evolving forms of pragmatic negotiation among ordinary citizens.
She advocates for using emic, locally derived keywords/concepts for analyzing Indian democracy, not just Western theoretical paradigms.

Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

00:14 – Introduction to guest and the themes of the book.
02:26 – Lisa describes the Shiv Sena split and the concept of “shows.”
05:40 – The inversion of conventional political representation logics.
10:08 – Bjorkman’s research genesis and approach.
12:22 – Contrasting American and Mumbai approaches to “crowd” disputes.
18:47 – The crowd as public and as object of mediation and evaluation.
26:43 – Shift to citizenship protests and the anxiety over protest images.
34:50 – Crowds as infrastructure for individual expression at protests.
39:50 – Pragmatism and skepticism revealed through public opinion surveys.
48:56 – Book’s theoretical ambition for global concepts of democracy.

Quotable Highlights

“Conventional thinking is: parties compete to represent people. Here, people gather in competition to represent a party.” [05:40]
“Instead of fact-checking, they would try and upstage... If someone puts on a show that makes us look bad, you put on a bigger, more compelling display.” [12:22]
“The size of the public will be the size of the image.” [23:55]
“The crowd becomes actually the infrastructure by means of which people seek to project their individual voices or individual perspectives.” [34:50]
“If people are not necessarily believing in the literal interpretation… this is not a story of truth and lies. But ok, clearly this is inhabiting a theatrical or some sort of performance register.” [39:50]

Takeaways for Listeners

Performance, not Authenticity: Mumbai’s politics are intensely performative, with both politicians and citizens skilled at both staging and decoding pageantry.
Audience Matters: The “uptake” of political actions—how they are received, critiqued, or ignored—matters as much as the actions themselves.
Crowds/Publics: The Mumbai public’s evaluative lens often slips between crowd and public, and demands new theoretical attention to these fluid forms.
Against Despair: Despite widespread anxiety about democratic backsliding, Bjorkman finds grounds for cautious optimism in the pragmatic and critical engagement of Indian voters.
Rethinking Theory: Ethnography calls for conceptual frameworks rooted in the language and evaluative practices of ordinary citizens—not only Western models.

Podcast Summary

Overview

Main Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Stage: Political Performance as Entry Point

Bjorkman describes starting her book with the recent split within the Shiv Sena party, observing a dramatic contest for the title of "the real Shiv Sena" during the Dussehra festival through competing rallies.
The focus is not on the split per se (a common occurrence in Indian politics), but on the “performance” of authenticity via mass assemblies.
The media’s framing of these as “the grand sena shows” inspired Bjorkman’s inquiry into the theatricality of political representation (02:26–09:32).
She positions her methodology at the intersection of political ethnography and performance studies, arguing that democratic ‘performance’ should be analyzed with attention to audience uptake—not just to what politicians do, but how publics interpret and act on these performances.

Notable quote:

“Conventional thinking is: parties compete to represent people. Here, people gather in competition to represent a party.”
— Lisa Bjorkman [05:40]

Research Trajectory: From Water Infrastructure to Democratic Drama

Bjorkman’s fieldwork began during Mumbai’s 2012 municipal elections, spurred by leftover questions from her research on water infrastructure.
She found that boundaries between formal/informal politics collapse in the city—“there is no outside of elections, it’s always election season” (10:08–16:22).
An observation emerging from US media after Trump’s election (fact-checking crowd sizes) contrasted with Mumbai, where such pronouncements were not fact-checked, but countered by trying to upstage the spectacle.

Notable quote:

“Instead of fact-checking, they would try and upstage... If someone puts on a show that makes us look bad, you put on a bigger, more compelling display.”
— Lisa Bjorkman [12:22]

The Concept of Crowds, Publics, and Political Evaluation

In Mumbai, the “crowd” is often synonymous with the “public” using the English-origin word. Contrary to much Western theory (where the crowd is irrational, and public is discursive), crowds in Mumbai are seen as rational, evaluative entities (17:03–25:35).
Rallies are not just “shows” but sites where participants keenly observe and assess each other and the relational labor that went into building the crowd. The importance of images: “the size of the public will be the size of the image.”
Evaluating rallies is thus more than numbers; attendees judge the “strength,” relational networks, and moral appropriateness of the performance and participation.

Notable quote:

“The crowd is a public and also has its own publics, because when the crowd is imaged... those circulate in ways that produce other kinds of publics.”
— Lisa Bjorkman [18:47]

Protest, the CAA, and New Modes of Mobilization

In later chapters, the focus shifts to the anti-CAA protests in 2019–20.
Unlike electoral rallies (where politicians claim the crowd), here all major political parties disavowed organization, and activists explicitly orchestrated both participation and public image to avoid being branded as “party shows” (26:43–36:28).
Protestors curated the aesthetics of the crowds, e.g., hand-written placards (to resist allegations of mass organization), absence of party insignia, and explicit attempts to appear diverse—not only as Muslims.
The “crowd” became an infrastructure for individual voices rather than a singular public will.

Notable quote:

“The crowd becomes actually the infrastructure by means of which people seek to project their individual voices or individual perspectives.”
— Lisa Bjorkman [34:50]

Majoritarianism, Hindutva, and Grounds for Optimism

The rise of Hindutva and the dominance of the BJP frame contemporary concerns about Indian democracy and “democratic backsliding” (36:28–48:56).
Yet, Bjorkman ends on a “non-bleak” note, highlighting a pragmatic, non-ideological political practice observed ethnographically; narratives of majoritarian identity often mismatch lived, everyday choices and allegiances.
She references a CPR survey post–Ayodhya Ram Mandir inauguration: while many voters (even a third of BJP supporters) saw it as a political stunt rather than “rectification of historical wrongs,” most still enjoyed the spectacle.

Notable quote:

“If people are not necessarily believing in the literal interpretation… this is not a story of truth and lies. But ok, clearly this is inhabiting a theatrical or some sort of performance register.”
— Lisa Bjorkman [39:50]

Bjorkman sees evidence for ongoing dissent, critical evaluation, and evolving forms of pragmatic negotiation among ordinary citizens.
She advocates for using emic, locally derived keywords/concepts for analyzing Indian democracy, not just Western theoretical paradigms.

Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

00:14 – Introduction to guest and the themes of the book.
02:26 – Lisa describes the Shiv Sena split and the concept of “shows.”
05:40 – The inversion of conventional political representation logics.
10:08 – Bjorkman’s research genesis and approach.
12:22 – Contrasting American and Mumbai approaches to “crowd” disputes.
18:47 – The crowd as public and as object of mediation and evaluation.
26:43 – Shift to citizenship protests and the anxiety over protest images.
34:50 – Crowds as infrastructure for individual expression at protests.
39:50 – Pragmatism and skepticism revealed through public opinion surveys.
48:56 – Book’s theoretical ambition for global concepts of democracy.

Quotable Highlights

“Conventional thinking is: parties compete to represent people. Here, people gather in competition to represent a party.” [05:40]
“Instead of fact-checking, they would try and upstage... If someone puts on a show that makes us look bad, you put on a bigger, more compelling display.” [12:22]
“The size of the public will be the size of the image.” [23:55]
“The crowd becomes actually the infrastructure by means of which people seek to project their individual voices or individual perspectives.” [34:50]
“If people are not necessarily believing in the literal interpretation… this is not a story of truth and lies. But ok, clearly this is inhabiting a theatrical or some sort of performance register.” [39:50]

Takeaways for Listeners

Performance, not Authenticity: Mumbai’s politics are intensely performative, with both politicians and citizens skilled at both staging and decoding pageantry.
Audience Matters: The “uptake” of political actions—how they are received, critiqued, or ignored—matters as much as the actions themselves.
Crowds/Publics: The Mumbai public’s evaluative lens often slips between crowd and public, and demands new theoretical attention to these fluid forms.
Against Despair: Despite widespread anxiety about democratic backsliding, Bjorkman finds grounds for cautious optimism in the pragmatic and critical engagement of Indian voters.
Rethinking Theory: Ethnography calls for conceptual frameworks rooted in the language and evaluative practices of ordinary citizens—not only Western models.

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Drama of Democracy: Political Representation in Mumbai

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Summary

Podcast Summary

Overview

Main Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Stage: Political Performance as Entry Point

Research Trajectory: From Water Infrastructure to Democratic Drama

The Concept of Crowds, Publics, and Political Evaluation

Protest, the CAA, and New Modes of Mobilization

Majoritarianism, Hindutva, and Grounds for Optimism

Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

Quotable Highlights

Takeaways for Listeners

Further Reading

Summary

Podcast Summary

Overview

Main Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Stage: Political Performance as Entry Point

Research Trajectory: From Water Infrastructure to Democratic Drama

The Concept of Crowds, Publics, and Political Evaluation

Protest, the CAA, and New Modes of Mobilization

Majoritarianism, Hindutva, and Grounds for Optimism

Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

Quotable Highlights

Takeaways for Listeners

Further Reading