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Dylan Taylor-Lehman, "Going Rackless: Chicago’s Amateur Pool Players and the Quest for Glory in the Biggest Tournament in the World" (3 Fields Books, 2025)
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Dan Moran
At.
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Dan Moran
Limu Emu and Doug.
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
Here we have the Limu Emu in.
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Its natural habitat, helping people customize their.
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
Car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.
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Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
Cut the camera.
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Dan Moran
They see us.
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
Liberty. Liberty.
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
Excludes Massachusetts.
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New Books Network Host
Welcome to the New Books Network.
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Dan Moran
Hello, everybody. Welcome to the New Books Network. I'm your host, Dan Moran. I'm very happy to be here today with Dylan Taylor Lehman. Dylan is a journalist, author, and pool enthusiast who's here to talk about his new book, Going Chicago's Amateur Pool Players and the Quest for Glory in the Biggest Tournament in the world, published in 2025 by Three Fields Books. I've read every page of it. It's great. It's delightful. It's a great book for pool enthusiasts, you know, and I'm so excited to talk to Dylan about it. So welcome, Dylan.
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
Thank you so much. I'm excited to talk about my own book as well, so appreciate it.
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Dan Moran
That makes two of us. Awesome. So I want to dive right into this. A few pages into the book, you have a quotation, and I want to read this to you. You say, quote, if there is a meaning to life, the highs and lows of a good game come as close as anything to revealing it. Explain that.
- [02:26]
Dylan Taylor Lehman
Well, basically, I mean, that just refers to the. The utter enthusiasm that borders on obsession that a lot of the players had. And so there's another quote elsewhere in the book that, you know, one of the players said, you know, when they introduce themselves to people or when they even think about themselves, they define themselves first and Foremost as a pool player. And so just having that, I guess, lens with which you carry yourself in the world means that, you know, any of these, any game that you play has the potential to be really exciting and impactful and you just put yourself into it in a way that you might not other avenues of your life. And so, although maybe a little over top to say there's a meaning of life in each game, for the players that I profiled in the book, it certainly was a very important part of their identity and happiness and just the way they move through the world. And so any game has the potential to have that, that level of importance.
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Dan Moran
Let's talk about the people you profile. Tell their, tell our listeners about like kind of like a setup and like, kind of like the narrative arc of your book.
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
Yeah, so my book profiles mainly one year in the American pool players, the leagues of the American Pool Players association, which is a nationwide league, but also in Canada, Japan and now Singapore. That brings together pool players of all capabilities and in fact requires players who are beginners or are just not very good to round to make sure the teams aren't too, you know, weighted in, in favor of really good players. So all that to say there, I profiled four APA teams in the center of Chicago playing through an entire year of regular season as they fight to all compete against, to compete in the biggest tournament in the world, which is in Las Vegas. And so these APA teams all over the country compete locally. The best of their respective leagues gets a chance to go to Vegas. And so at the end of each year, there are approximately 14,000 pool players. And I think for eightball, which is the most popular or the most play, the most played APA league, there are roughly a thousand teams. And so all these teams get together to battle it out in this huge tournament. And so my book basically follows four of these teams in Chicago from the beginning of the season all the way to Vegas, and then picks up again post Vegas to see how they do the following year.
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Dan Moran
And they're from Chicago. Right. So, you know, those of us who have, who love Walter Tevis, who have seen the Hustler or the Color of Money, which get mentioned in your book, what is it about Chicago that makes it this, this holy city for pool?
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
I mean, I think just by virtue of being Chicago itself, you know that it's just such a storied, deep history with all these little pockets of interest and people and stuff. So that just lends itself to pool. But I think more specifically, if you want to go really far back in the history of the game in Chicago, even before Chicago was a city, there were pool halls there. And as you know, the reputation that kind of lent itself to a fairly negative reputation of places for fighting and drinking and other sorts of vices. And so pool halls were actually originally banned in Illinois, but later, I think people realized that wasn't a great economic choice. And so that gave rise or to a flourishing pool community, some of which was underground. And, you know, had the. Had that really gritty, gritty approach, as in movies portrayed in movies like the Hustler. But then there were also these really opulent halls full of, like, you know, staff that wore white gloves. And, you know, you'd have players wearing these tuxedos. So there was that side of the game as well. But of course, there was a ton of overlap between those. And so that just trickled out throughout the city to drive this interest in the sport. And then I should also say that, you know, being a. A very industrial city, there were just lots of men. Men there working and left to their own devices. And so that. That led to the. These really populated pool halls and this thriving pool culture that has since chilled out a little bit. And you get to places or leagues like the APA where it's a little less maybe gritty, but still the stakes are still stakes and interest are still there. So now it's, you know, there's a very. Anything you would want from pool you can find in Chicago.
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Dan Moran
Yeah. You talk in one part of the book of how Chicago, as kind of like the second city, has a chip on its shoulder, and that chip is in there in the way people play pool and carry themselves when they're from Chicago. Yeah.
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
And, in fact, you know, a pool player told me that, like, the reason why you don't see a lot of major pool tournaments hosted in Chicago today, like national or international tournaments, is because Chicago players have a reputation for playing pretty dirty. So, you know, I can't really speak to that, but it is true that, you know, not a lot of major pool tournaments are held within the city these days.
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Dan Moran
That's pretty funny. So you mentioned eight ball before is the most popular game. And of course, like, you know, if you. If you're a casual pool player, as most, you know, most people. People listening to this, and certainly most adults, you know, have played pool at least once in their life or tried to play it. Right. So people know the rules of eight ball. Maybe a little fewer of them know the rules of nine ball. But you talk about that in the book I thought that was really interesting is that, like, each game has its different kind of like, vibe, for lack of a better word. So what is it about? What is it that people like about eight ball versus what people like? About nine ball.
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
I mean, eight ball, you know, the classic game where you. You're racing to sink all of your solids or stripes, and the eight ball at the end that anyone could jump in and play that, as you mentioned, anyone ever. Most people know how to approach that sort of game. And that, because it's not. I don't want to say it's slower paced, but because there's a lot of trade off, you know, you have. There's a. Arguably more tabletop strategy involved or perhaps more techniques are at play, whereas. And the game takes a little longer to develop, whereas nine ball, where you're only using.
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Half the balls, that's much, much quicker because, you know, you just. It's all about syncing them as quickly as, as possible in order. And so that people really love that just really quick, punchy nature of nine ball versus the slightly more maybe methodical approach to eight ball.
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Dan Moran
You just mentioned strategy. And that's something I learned from your book a lot because I, I'm just a. I'm a complete, complete, you know, casual amateur in terms of playing pool. But, you know, you know, little things about. As you go through it, pool's like one of those things that struck me like mini golf. Like when people play it, all of a sudden they think they're experts in putting. And when people play pool at a bar, they're like, oh, here's what you should be doing. And like, guys love to give each other advice, but you. There was a great strategy line. You talk about this guy named Chalky who. That's his nickname. And Chalky brought you kind of into the world of Chicago pool. And I love this moment. I'd like it to explain this to the listeners. There's a part where he points to the balls on the table and he says, the game isn't about those balls. And then he points to the cue ball and says, it's about this one here. Make sure you know that. And that was like his Yoda moment. And I was like, I'm definitely gonna ask us. Let's talk to us about that deep strategy.
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
Right? So the context of him saying that was I briefly played in these APA leagues. And that was more or less my introduction to. To the stories that would. That would become this book. But I don't know. And you know, me Playing pool. I just, I used to like playing pool. My friends, if there's a table will shoot around. I don't know anything about the higher of the game. And so Chalky, when he explained it to me, you know, he's like, it's not just about sinking balls, it's about making sure you leave the cue ball position for the next shot or that you have this whole sequence of shots in mind. Whether you, you know, you can carry him out or not is another thing. But just the idea of thinking many steps ahead, I don't know why that didn't occur to me but that that was just a fundamental part of the game that, you know, me being terrible, I didn't really have to worry about too much. So just. But the point was that like, there's just so much more to the game than trying to sink balls. I mean, it's, you know, not to mention all the techniques when you actually play, but I mean, just thinking about how the game will unfold, there's just a lot more strategy there than I think I gave the game credit for. And that was really fascinating, not only to see the technical prowess on display, but just to hear about how a real pool player approaches the game.
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Dan Moran
Yeah, there's parts where teammates, because you have the teams of where one person shooting, but before they shoot, they kind of went and they go and talk to each other and they kind of get into this like huddle, like, what should I do next? Now to the casual person like me or you, we're just like, you know, if you could sink them for a while, that's a big win. Right? But these guys can think like way in advance. And like, should you go after this one? Because that will put the cue ball here. Like I thought that was really, really interesting.
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
Yeah, and that's one of the appealing aspects of the, of the APA is that it's a, essentially not not only a teaching league, but it's a good place for people interested in the game to learn. Because if you join very the various other pool leagues that are out there, some of those are, you know, for much higher level players who really have a lot of experience in the game. Whereas this is more about just bringing people in, teaching them how to think about the game, how to shoot, how to just move in the world of pool in a way that you might already be expected to know in some, some of the other leagues.
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Dan Moran
So that surprised me too. One of the things I learned about the APA was that it encourages weaker players because of course you can't judge a book by its cover. Right. So when I first picked up your book, I'm like, this is going to be all Sharks. This whole thing is going to be guys with pinky rings and Jackie Gleason playing Minnesota Fats. But it's like, no, it's like this guy has a day job. And a lot of people have other things they do. And I was fascinated by what you mentioned before about the idea that they demand both novices and experts on the same team and that you go into the handy handicap system. So can you tell our listeners about, about the handicapping system in the APA and how that all works?
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
Yeah, so the, the, when you, you're, when you join the APA, you're assigned a, a handicap level of 1 through 7, which is usually 2 through 7, because I don't think they want to insult anyone by deeming them them a 1. And the numbers roughly correspond to how many balls you should be able to sink in a row. And so over time your handicap will go up and down based on your, the percentage of games you win and how you perform and things like that. And so, you know, part of the appeal is, is to grow your handicap. But that also factors it into team composition because teams are required to five players play a night and the handicaps of all those five players combined cannot be more than 23. And so that, that's how you develop the balance of capabilities on your team because you have to pad it with lower ranked players to make sure you meet that handicap.
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And so where was I going with this? Oh, right. And so when players of different handicaps are playing each other.
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That there, there's a chart where say you're a three handicap playing a four handicap, the three would have to win less games overall to take the match than the four would because they're lower ranked. And so that helps to even the playing field because if you have like a three going up against a six, you know, and just if you're just playing from game to game, the three is going to get destroyed. But if they only have to win in two games, whereas a six might have to win four or five, that gives them at least a chance to come away from that match with a victory. Because the matches are made up of not just one game, but as many games as the, as the handicap demands.
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Dan Moran
And your handicap, as I remember from the book, is fluid, isn't it? Like, it changes from like, from like game to game, doesn't it? Or like, from, from like.
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
Oh yeah, it absolutely changes from Game to game. And that's, that's another part of the strategy of the APA leagues is that not that you want to lose on purpose, but you really have to pay attention to how your handicap is changing because you know if you go up a rank that might remove you from the playing lineup because you're too, you've now exceeded the allowable number of handicaps for that game. So that's, that's part of it. And so at the Vegas tournament there are not only the, the main tournament games going on, but also these mini mania it's called, which are just fairly cheap buy in tournaments that you can just play when you have time to do so. And those games impact your handicap. And so in the middle of the tournament, you know, players will be like, oh no, I have, I've disrupted the handicap of my whole team. And so not only all that to say not only does that help facilitate more players coming into the game, but it also adds another element of strategy to it that, that is somewhat unique to the apa.
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Dan Moran
Yeah, I thought it was cool. I thought, I thought it was like the APA was trying to prevent certain teams from becoming like, like the Dodgers or the Yankees where they could just like recruit like that they had the most money for like you know, for, for street cred or whatever and that you kind of like we're going to make sure everything like which is what professional sports try to do sometimes with salary caps, but they never work.
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
I mean strategically that would make sense for sure. But I think the APA also wants people to keep playing in the league and so they want these lower ranked players in. So it's part largess, part strategy, financial strategy, part just giving players who might not typically have the opportunity to play in a competitive pool league the chance to compete like this. And that's, I should say that's what's was particularly endearing about the tournament and the chance to play in this huge tournament is that you know, if your team makes it all the way through, you'd have a person like myself who is, you know, average at best competing under, you know, in front of hundreds of people under cameras and lights with, with announcers and like it's just this over the top like professional experience for people who might not necessarily be even good at the game. And so that, but it, but the chance to win, a chance to play and on a level like that is, keeps people going and it's just really fun to see just quote unquote regular people, regular pool players be able to have the experience of of having their game narrated by a professional announcer, which, which is cool.
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- [18:17]
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- [18:47]
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- [18:50]
Dan Moran
You coming where to the North Pole, of course.
- [18:53]
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- [18:57]
Dylan Taylor Lehman
Did I burn down the joy? I don't think so.
- [18:59]
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- [19:16]
Dan Moran
It is cool. It is cool because it brings out. It's a celebration of amateurism in the best sense of the word.
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
Right. And it's really funny, too, when you. When you have players on teams who, you know, are missing shots that, you know, more talented pool player might make, the announcers are trying to make the most of it and keep. Keep this, like, steady positivity going like any sports announcer would, Even though it's like, you know, just. Yeah. Players aren't necessarily competing at professional levels.
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Dan Moran
Yeah, that's awesome. So people have their handicaps, and they have to take that into account. But of course, any book about pools gonna have to deal with hustlers. Right? We mentioned before, like, you know, the Hustler, the Paul Newman movie. So you talk about hustling. They call it sandbagging in the apa. So tell us about what that is and, like, and how that works.
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
Sandbagging is when a player will deliberately play worse than their assigned handicap or will play bad to. To be awarded a low handicap. That way they can kind of fly under the radar. And then when it really counts, they'll play at their actual level and be able to take out players who are, you know, ostensibly at their same handicap. And so it's basically a way to just pretend you're worse than you are. So when it counts, you can really, really clean up and.
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Or just maintain the balance of your. Of your team. Handicapped, total. And so there's different ways people go about it, but, yeah, I mean, that's basically it. You just have your best players play worse than they are to further your chances in the league.
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Dan Moran
Now, how do people get caught at that? Because that comes up a couple times in the book where somebody gets accused of sandbagging. So the one thing I was really interested in is how do you prove it? Right? So people get caught counting cards at blackjack, say, in a casino, right? They have to kind of. There's a way that the pit bosses can prove it. I wouldn't be able to know if somebody was counting cards, right? But, like, how would you. How. How do you prove that somebody's been sandbagged? And the person can just say, oh, no, I'm just like, I'm just really hot tonight.
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
And I. I mean, you know, some players, I'm in the APA leagues, you know, you're playing the same people, or you at least you know a lot of the same people, and you're seeing them play over and over again. So if somebody you know is better than they're playing suddenly is having an off. Numerous off nights in a row, it's kind. You kind of wonder what's going on. So there's that sort of thing. You just know what to look for in terms of how players are shooting or how they're. How they're performing at that night. But also when you know, if your team qualifies to play in Vegas, you have to send the entire season's worth of score sheets to the APA organization, who will, from what I've heard, run various algorithms on all the statistics to make sure there aren't any anomalies and stuff like that. And so some of the teams, or players, rather, who have been accused of sandbagging, but, you know, it couldn't be proved on the local level, they'll get to Vegas and it'll be a totally different story because they're paying much closer attention to how that all shakes out just in the interest of fairness. And of course, you know, they don't want to, you know, when you earn its passage to Vegas, the APA comps a lot of your trips, so they don't want to be paying for people who are cheating and stuff. So, yeah, they're just, you know, both, both observing what players are doing and then really closely analyzing the statistics, which, again, are kept for every game of every match of every night really helps to. To drive that down.
- [22:54]
Dan Moran
That's a great point about keeping statistics because, of course, when you think of, like, the world of the pool hustler, again, you think of the novel and the film of Paul Newman. You know, he goes from like little tiny town to tiny town and drives around and just. They don't know him. So he can go in and hustle them and say, oh, wow. But of course, if you play with the same people all time, like, you know, you know, if you watch, you know, if you watch a quarterback every Sunday, you're going to know if he's throwing the game or not. That's really. That's really interesting. So you. We mentioned money before we took playing in Vegas, and I mentioned, made the joke about Minnesota Fats. This is another fascinating thing. You point out that it's very difficult to make money playing professional pool. And you say the top five professionals in the world today, not the top 5%, but the top five might make over a hundred thousand dollars a year.
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Dylan Taylor Lehman
Yeah, and that was very surprised, slash disappointed, that if I ever got super good at pool, it wouldn't be like, you know, I wouldn't become a pro athlete doing it. But, you know, I think just there is just limited interest in the game. I mean, it's, you know, it's not really watched by people who aren't already fans of it. It's really hard to kind of get people brought into this sport. So it's kind of an insular world, you know, and for that reason, maybe the prospects of earnings are limited a bit. But, you know, 100 grand playing pool, it. That's awesome. And that's not really. That's not counting the sponsorships and the various other endorsements that you might, you might be able to earn at, at that level. So.
- [24:26]
And I should say, you know, if you're really trying to get to play at that level as well, you often can only work part time or at least have to spend an inordinate amount of time playing pool. And so just, it's just really hard to make money legally playing pool, you know, which isn't to say that a lot of these professional players don't have maybe a little more underground games where they're earning things that don't count to this 100 grand income. But. So there are other ways to do it. But yes, in terms of earning money from playing pool professional, above board, professionally it is. The earnings are a bit lower, I suppose, than I was expecting.
- [25:08]
Dan Moran
What's the moment? Talk to us about the moment where you, because you kind of write yourself into the book in several scenes. What's the moment, though, when you go back in time where you think back and say, yeah, this is actually a book here where you went from a casual observer to a pool player, where you're kind of like, I actually think, I actually think there's a book here that people would want to read. And it's got that beautiful arc of sports narratives. When did that talk about that moment?
- [25:31]
Dylan Taylor Lehman
I think it was probably the first time I went to Vegas where I was just completely blown away by how over the top this pool event was. I mean, it takes place in this massive convention center. I think I mentioned earlier there were 14,000 pool players there. There's dozens of vendors. I mean, it's just utter pool. It's a pool mecca, basically. And so I think just the, the scope of that, the beyond the apa, the hus, Chicago's hustler history and the broader history of pool itself was pretty interesting. So I realized there are ways to weave that in in a lot more detail. But I also think mostly it was just spending time with these four teams and learning, you know, getting to know them, some of the main players on them, and just their different motivations were all somewhat similar, but at least different enough that it was. It gave personality to Each team, and I thought it was very much worth exploring their, their experiences in a lot more detail than the, you know, magazine length article that I was originally envisioning. And so I also personally just really like doing research and writing maybe needlessly long about topics and, you know, going into history. Just the whole, the whole thing that goes into a comprehensive nonfiction book is just really what I like doing. And so I was happy to take the opportunity to expand my original vision.
- [26:59]
Dan Moran
Yeah, your enthusiasm is on every page. Let's talk about that Vegas trip for a second. That's at the Westgate Resort. You call it a surreal pool fantasy. And there's a photo in the book where you just see it almost like a hall. It almost looks like a hall of mirrors where all these guys were at pool tables, like with the perfect lights, like it's beautifully symmetrical. Right? Just tell our listeners, like what's that scene like with the vendors and the people and the lobbies and the people fall asleep and like in the, in the hallway, like what was that whole scene like at the Westgate Resort?
- [27:27]
Dylan Taylor Lehman
Yeah, so you walk into the, the main Westgate entrance and it's the, the hotel's casino is on the ground floor. And so you're immediately met with just all the noise and clanging and lights and smoke and whatever of a casino. But within that casino, you see everybody's wearing their quiver like pool bags. They're all wearing their team shirts. You just recognize immediately that you're in, you know, something's different. And then you walk down the hall and just enter this room where there are just vendors along every wall selling every type of pool accessory and equipment you could imagine. Everyone's talking about pool. There are tables set up everywhere for the mini mania tournaments I mentioned, practice tables. And then there's professionals doing trick shot expos. It's just anything you could think of related to pool. Takes up three massive rooms before you even get to the main tournament room, which has how many pool tables? At least, I want to say approximately 250 to 300 pool tables set up in it. Again, you know, as you mentioned in this laser with laser like precision, all in a row. And that's where the bulk of the tournament takes place. And each table has its own viewing area. There are bars set up at intersections between all the aisles. There's you know, banners and posters hanging from the ceiling. It's just like if you go into a, a pool it. And then, you know, that's fun enough, but this is like that times a million. It's just a really. I've never seen so much pool in one place. And just being in an environment, any type of environment where people are that obsessed with their hobby is just so fun to learn about what's driving that obsession and hear the lingo and just a culture that only exists, you know, among pool players. Being able to just poke my nose around that and be a fly on the wall and. And then talk to people, you know, organizers and players and vendors and stuff. It was just. It was just a really cool chance to. To enter that surreal pool fantasy and just explore this world that other people might. If you're not a pool player, you might not know a whole lot about.
- [29:42]
Dan Moran
And the cool thing about the APA is that they invite people into that. It's not supposed to be a snobbish or exclusive. Right. It's like they, they. They invite people into that fantasy. They're. They're all for it.
- [29:52]
Dylan Taylor Lehman
Oh, absolutely. And I mean, any, you know, any. Not any town, but a lot, any town of. Of size should have an APA league. And it, you know, it's fairly inexpensive to join. I think you're maybe nightly dues once a week or 15 bucks or so, not counting the, you know, drinks you'll probably have. But it's a totally accessible league and sport to get into. And so again, going back to just like the quote, unquote, average person playing and being able to take part in something like this, I think is just an opportunity that probably, you know, few other aspects of their life would allow them to take part in. So just having this escape is. And seeing people thrive in that environment and then eventually get super tired and burn out from planting pool for four or five days straight. You know, that whole arc is. Is cool to see too, because I was, you know, stayed at the tournament for, I don't know, you know, a good portion of it for two. Two years in a row. And I actually went this past year just to go because I missed. I missed being there. So I was handing out flyers for the book, but also just wanted to walk around. I wasn't reporting or anything. I just wanted to walk around in that again and see all those familiar sights.
- [31:07]
Dan Moran
That's cool. Yeah. It struck me as the. One of the notes I wrote in the margins was it's kind of like the barrier of entry is very low. So it's the opposite of someone who takes up golf where you're already a couple hundred bucks in the bag, so to speak, before you even start. And it's kind of like, all right, so that's one cool thing about the apa. Let me hang on one second. So let me jump ahead a little bit. The book you mentioned before, the enthusiasm and this book is filled with people who are like fanatics in the best way. And there's a chapter at the end called. The title is an expression of Barbarian Temperament, which I thought was like the best chapter title. So talk about that a little bit.
- [31:48]
Dylan Taylor Lehman
Yeah, I think, man. What. So that chapter basically is just a, a brief chapter that kind of talks about maybe the psychological need that playing pool fulfills. You know, like hearkening our ancestors throwing spears and that sense of, you know, that inborn sense of competition we as, as human animals have. And it's a way to maybe channel that in a bit more of a productive way than other sorts of maybe more, more negative competition. But I specifically kind of was thinking about this because.
- [32:22]
They was right when like the Ukraine, when Russia invaded Ukraine and so that just not to mention the many other horrible conflicts going on around the world and that so sort of just put in my mind like what are the utility of sports? Is that like a just kind of a productive way to deal with this sense of competition? Is it, you know, are we just inclined to be, you know, bellicose and barbaric and we need some outlet? So I think in some, to some degree, you know, maybe that does fulfill those needs. But also, you know, it's the opposite of that. You know, it's friends getting together in, in this unified environment and you're just all having fun together. And it's more about bringing people together than it is really like driving home this like sense of competition or centering that. So I think it was it just my non experts analysis of what maybe the game means to us on like a slightly deeper level, I suppose.
- [33:22]
Dan Moran
Yeah, I thought it was great. You have a great sense where you say the Q of course is a spear. And I'm like wow.
- [33:29]
Dylan Taylor Lehman
Yeah, I would probably patted myself on the back when I thought of that. Actually. No, I, I probably when I went to the first ap, the first pulled championships in Vegas, the APA was selling a shirt with like the you know, the evolution drawing of like ape to man and then it after man it was somebody crouched down as a pool player. I was like that's, that's brilliant. So maybe I got that spear idea from that. But all that to say yes, it was just kind of analyzing what, what sports might mean.
- [34:02]
Dan Moran
So here's my last question for you. One of the, one of the Watermarks of this book, or I guess one of the benchmarks is a better word for the. For the. The test for the reader is, how do you feel when it's over? And I gotta tell you, when I got done reading this, all I wanted to do was play pool. I'm like, I want to go find it. Like, it makes you want to, want to, want to play it, because it's all about, like I said, the low barrier of entry. And you're kind of like, there's this whole motif that it's for anybody, right? So people listening here, who, who read the book and listen to this interview, if they say, you know, I want to, like, I'm kind of into that. Like, is that, like, what is it about the game that you love? What would you tell people who are kind of on the fence and saying, I don't know, maybe I should play pool? Why should they play?
- [34:38]
Dylan Taylor Lehman
I mean, it's. There's the camaraderie. You know, it's not a super solitary sport. You're with your team, you're with your friends playing. So there's just that getting out and hanging out with people is always a good thing. I think it, you know, there's. It can go as deep as you want to, as you want to take it. I mean, I know I met players who spent hours a day, you know, lining up balls to try different shots. I knew people who just played when their APA team had a. Had a league night. So I just. Any level of involvement you want to get it, you want. And pool, you. You can find something to suit your need. And so I think that, like, the most challenging part would be not being as good as you probably think you might be or want to be. Because when you see real or even players with a, you know, slightly above average level of skill, it's really a different game. And watching really good pool players play is both inspiring to see that poetry on the table, but also extremely frustrating because what you think is an easy shot, you know, if you're not holding the. The cue exactly right, it'll go wrong and you'll just either get really upset or, you know, at the very least, you know, every. Everyone is, you know, always. I'm not usually this bad or I should have. I usually make that. So it can be very frustrating. So I'll warn people about that. But I think that, you know, just. And another thing that some players had mentioned was that, like, you know, they're like, I'm not athletic. I'm 55 years old. You know, whatever the case may be. But I had, this is something where, something new that I can take on, I can get good at. It's, it can accommodate my or my lifestyle accommodates it vice versa. You know, it's, it's something anyone can play. And so I think that that is part of the appeal as well. You don't have to be an athlete. You don't have to be have all these resources available. You just, you can just go and shoot around and build up your talent as you have the appetite for great going.
- [36:40]
Dan Moran
Reckless Chicago's Amateur Pool Players and the Quest for Glory in the Biggest Tournament in the World is published by Three Fields Books. It's available everywhere. I highly, highly recommend it. It's a great book for die hard pool players, for casual fans, for people who love sports, for people who love, like we said before, amateurs getting together to go on that quest for glory. Dylan Taylor Lehman, thank you so much for coming on the New Books Network.
- [37:03]
Dylan Taylor Lehman
Yeah, of course. I really appreciate this and all the work you're doing from my book and everyone else's books. It's a really cool thing you've got going. So I really appreciate being included in this program.
- [37:21]
Foreign.
- [37:29]
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