Podcast Summary:

New Books Network — Interview with Dr. Elaine M. Fisher
Book: The Meeting of Rivers: Translating Religion in Early Modern India (Oxford UP, 2025)
Date: February 12, 2026
Host: Dr. Raj Balkaran
Guest: Dr. Elaine M. Fisher, Associate Professor of Hinduism, Stanford University

Episode Overview

This episode dives into Dr. Elaine M. Fisher’s latest book, The Meeting of Rivers: Translating Religion in Early Modern India, which explores the dynamic, multilingual, and transregional formations of Vir Shaivism and Lingayatism in South India. Dr. Fisher challenges established academic and popular narratives about these traditions—particularly the supposed divide between vernacular (“vernacular Bhakti”) and Sanskritic religious histories—and presents a nuanced approach to translation and religious development across linguistic and regional boundaries.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Genesis of the Book & Research Trajectory

• Fisher’s Motivation: Originally set out to study the evolution of Shaivism, especially its non-dualistic aspects in South India (01:34). Noticed a wealth of previously understudied Vīrashaiva literature in Sanskrit and Telugu and questioned the commonly perceived narrative divide between vernacular and Sanskritic traditions.
  • “I had initially believed that literature and had the idea that what I'm doing is studying a different side of Buroshaiva or Lingayed history, one that was distinct from what we already knew about Basava and the other Sharnas, one that simply hadn't been told. And it was through that process that I eventually came to learn that there really was no such divide to begin with.” —Fisher (02:38)

2. Sources and Methodological Interventions

• Polyglot Sources: Utilizes a broad array of texts in Sanskrit, Telugu, Kannada, Marathi, and Tamil. Early Vīrashaiva literature is already deeply intertextual and diachronic, blending and citing earlier Shaiva canon (04:45).
• Rejecting False Dichotomies: Challenges the academic tendency to sharply compartmentalize linguistic and religious traditions. Fisher argues these traditions actively engaged with (and crossed) multiple linguistic and cultural boundaries (05:46).

3. Prevailing Narratives & Their Critique

• Impact of Ramanujan: Ramanujan’s translations (e.g., Speaking of Shiva) shaped Western academic views, often rooted in 20th-century Kannada regional and nationalistic politics, influencing questions like Lingayatism’s relationship to Hinduism (06:07).
• Bhakti Studies Paradigm: The notion of bhakti traditions as strictly regional, vernacular, and protest-based movements is fundamentally incomplete for understanding Vir Shaivism’s multilingual and intra-Shaiva developments (10:28).
  • “That's simply not what we find here...the earliest thinkers within Vir Shaivism or Lingayat circles...were actively drawing on a prehistory...in which the word Bhakti...was already intertwined with ideas about caste inclusion.” —Fisher (11:30)

4. Multilingualism & Translation as Paradigm

• Transregional Complexity: Dismantles the idea that early Vir Shaivism or Lingayatism was ever linguistically monolithic. Instead, a vibrant multilingual, polyvocal culture existed—pre-colonial texts across languages are deeply interconnected (12:59, 14:15).
• Translation as Creative Agency: Expands “translation” to include micro-acts (incorporation of phrases, idioms, or citations from other languages) and strategic uses that shape communities. Translation is not just rendering words, but a vehicle for religious, cultural, and communal transformation (15:18).
  • “Even when writing ostensibly vernacular works, they often include substantial Sanskrit citations or citations from other vernaculars...So, speaking of translation, one thing I'm trying to do here...is to broaden the sense...to illustrate how what you might call micro acts of translation...was a deliberate attempt to allow knowledge to cross those linguistic boundaries.” —Fisher (16:12)
  • “You don't accidentally translate an entire chapter of a Sanskrit text into Kannada and basically pass it off as your own work without trying to move information deliberately and strategically, without trying to shape a community in a certain way for a certain purpose.” —Fisher (19:49)

5. Agency, Power, & Constraint

• Agency within Constraints: Emphasizes that while creative acts of translation are vital, they operate within real social and linguistic power structures—some “rivers” of knowledge are dammed or diverted (21:44).
  • “I also want to stress...that one question that folks often have...is whether I'm overemphasizing agency...Instead, what can and can't be said...fundamentally constrained by a pre existing landscape of power in social relations...” —Fisher (20:14)

6. The “Meeting of Rivers” Metaphor

• Title's Significance: Refers both to the sacred confluence (Kudala Sangama) and as a dynamic metaphor for the intermingling and cross-fertilization of linguistic, textual, and ritual traditions (22:25).
  • “Using this metaphor of fluid dynamics...I'm trying to think about how multilingualism can be conceptualized as this sort of interlocking current of rivers that traverse the landscape of South India in multiple directions.” —Fisher (22:34)

7. Scholarly Surprises & Ongoing Discovery

• Research Surprises: Fisher expected to confirm prior scholarly assumptions; instead, her research repeatedly overturned established narratives, revealing a more entangled, emergent, and still largely uncharted tradition (24:02).
  • “Everything that I thought I would write...turned out to be completely wrong for want of a better word. Right. It was a picture...that simply didn't match what I found in the archive and didn't match what I found in the text.” —Fisher (24:02)
• Model and Mapping: The book attempts to chart a map for a tradition still in process, inviting others to refine and expand the field (25:20).

8. Intended Audience & Contributions

• For Scholars & Educators: The book is framed as useful for South Asian religion scholars, survey-course instructors, translation and multilingualism experts, and comparative religion academics (26:27).
  • “How do you teach Vivism or Lingayatism? ...So I think...folks can think with for how do we teach this particular moment in these broader survey courses.” —Fisher (26:49)
• New Paradigms for Multilingualism: Offers “linguascape” as a conceptual vocabulary: a river-like, dynamic system of language flows, more reflective of South India’s historical realities than fixed, compartmentalized categories (28:22).
  • “The metaphor of landscape...of landscape formations that have their own inherent obstructions...But rivers...the conceptualization of language as riverine here shows the potential of a stream of language to move...It’s a fluid and dynamic process.” —Fisher (28:38)

9. Dr. Fisher's Research Process

• Iterative & Dialogic: Fieldwork (2016-2017) and writing developed iteratively, following thematic threads and “nexuses” (especially Sri Shailam and its multi-language output) to reconstruct layered histories of tradition (30:43).
• Starting Points Matter: Shifting the point of origin from the “iconic” narratives (Kalyana) to overlooked ones (Sri Shailam) exposes alternative versions of core values and practices, highlighting multidimensionality (32:35).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tradition and Translation:
  “Translation was an active cultural act above and beyond, just sort of a pedantic act of rendering from one language to another.” —Raj Balkaran (19:28)

• On Agency and Constraint:
  “I think I also want to stress...I'm especially interested in developing a model for looking at agency...that has open potential for newness, but is fundamentally constrained by a pre existing landscape of power in social relations...” —Elaine Fisher (20:14)

• On the Title’s Metaphor:
  “I'm trying to think about how multilingualism can be conceptualized as this sort of interlocking current of rivers that traverse the landscape of South India in multiple directions. So when these rivers, these multiple linguistic, textual traditions intertwine, they're able to create something new that wasn't possible before.” —Elaine Fisher (22:34)

• On Research and Surprise:
  “Everything that I thought I would write when I started researching this project maybe eight years ago, maybe more, turned out to be completely wrong, for want of a better word...” —Elaine Fisher (24:02)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:34] – Fisher’s meandering path to the subject; initial surprise at the existence of so much Sanskrit Vir Shaiva literature.
• [04:45] – Discussion of sources; diversity in geography and language.
• [06:07] – Prevailing academic narratives and their political contexts; Bhakti tradition and Ramanujan’s influence.
• [10:28] – Limits of the Bhakti paradigm in understanding Vir Shaivism’s origins.
• [14:15] – Pushing past fixed categories; the organic polyvocality of religious and linguistic traditions.
• [15:18] – Translation as practice and principle in religious history.
• [19:49] – Translation as deliberate, formative community practice.
• [21:44] – Agency and constraint; rivers as a metaphor for creative and bounded movement.
• [22:25] – Explanation of the book's title and riverine metaphor.
• [24:02] – Surprises in research; overturning scholarly assumptions.
• [26:27] – Intended audiences and disciplinary contributions.
• [28:22] – Defining “linguascape” as a conceptual tool.
• [30:43] – Fisher's personal research and writing process.
• [34:03] – Closing thoughts and gratitude.

Episode Takeaways

• Dr. Elaine M. Fisher’s research remaps the historical and linguistic boundaries of South Asian religious traditions, revealing previously unrecognized entanglements and multilingual dynamics.
• The book is both a theoretical intervention and a methodological model for reevaluating how we understand religious, literary, and cultural translation in early modern India—urging scholars to see beyond compartmentalized, monolithic narratives.
• The “meeting of rivers” is more than a poetic metaphor: it is a provocation to reconceptualize the flow and exchange of ideas, texts, and communities across language, region, and time.

For further information:

• Dr. Elaine M. Fisher’s The Meeting of Rivers is available through Oxford University Press (2025).
• Listen to more author interviews at New Books Network.