Podcast Summary:

New Books Network — Interview with Eric King on “A Clean Hell: Anarchy and Abolition in America’s Most Notorious Dungeon”
Host: Michael Stout
Guest: Eric King
Date: November 25, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation between host Michael Stout and activist-author Eric King about King’s powerful new book, A Clean Hell: Anarchy and Abolition in America’s Most Notorious Dungeon (PM Press, 2025). Drawing on nearly two years trapped in the federal Supermax prison ADX, King exposes the brutal realities of long-term isolation, builds a candid ethnography of prison life and politics, and shares hard-earned lessons in resistance, survival, and solidarity under torturous conditions. The episode is a moving testament to collective struggle, the limits and costs of prison resistance, and the ongoing necessity of support for incarcerated people.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Eric King’s Backstory and Path to ADX ([02:51])

• Activism and First Incarceration:
  King was imprisoned in 2014 for acts of solidarity with the Ferguson uprising, initially at a low-security prison.

• Escalation to ADX:
  His activism and outspoken writing from within prison led to increasing custody levels. A violent altercation with a lieutenant (in self-defense) resulted in federal charges, which King won at a rare federal trial ([03:05]). However, his defiance infuriated the Bureau of Prisons, leading to his transfer to ADX with the intent to silence his activism.

Description and Psychological Impact of ADX ([04:31])

• Physical Layout:
  King describes ADX as deceptively mundane in appearance—a red brick office building surrounded by fences and razor wire—but beneath the surface, it holds a concrete labyrinth of tiny, subterranean cells and hallways designed for extreme isolation. "It feels like you’re walking into your mausoleum" ([06:11]).

• Isolation:
  Unlike other prisons with social spaces, in ADX “you never see the other people,” and the absence of noise, contact, and routine social interaction is deeply disorienting ([05:33], [07:32]).

"You are by yourself in a concrete box underground. That’s a tomb."
— Eric King ([07:23])

Social Deprivation and Loss of Humanity ([08:05])

• Isolation Destroys Social Skills:
  King explains that human interaction is a learned skill that can be quickly unlearned:
  “They retrain you to not know how to be social. People don’t understand always that interacting with humans is a learned skill and you can unlearn that skill very quickly.” ([09:38])

Surviving Isolation: The Power of Routine and Meaning ([10:08])

• Meaning Through Routine:
  King shares the importance of self-generated structure in isolation:

  • Cleans cell twice daily.
  • Sets small, achievable goals.
  • Maintains rituals of gratitude (“verbalizing gratitude, intentional gratitude”).
  • Created a “five star day” system to mark days when he felt pride or accomplishment ([15:06]).

"If you don’t provide meaning to your day, no one else will...You are either letting them dominate you…or you are claiming your victories."
— Eric King ([11:34])

• Gratitude Practice and Five-Star Days:
  A five-star day might include accomplishing goals, not being harassed by guards, hearing from his wife, and small pleasures such as sports results ([15:06]).

• The Night the Lights Went Out:
  A rare power outage allowed King to see the stars for the first time in years:
  “It was like the stars were little angels...saying, we’ve got you. Like, you will be with us again.” ([16:30])

Prison Ethnography: Humanizing the "Forgotten" ([19:00])

• Inclusive Perspective:
  King is deliberate about centering a wide range of prisoners, including leftists, Muslims incarcerated for acts against US empire, and even white supremacists. He argues for seeing all incarcerated people as human, regardless of politics or crimes ([19:50]).

"When you tell their stories, it’s important to recognize that they might never have another human talk about them in a way that’s empathetic."
— Eric King ([22:25])

• Elderly Prisoners:
  King’s encounters with aging prisoners, who often receive inadequate care and support, left a lasting impression.
  “Me, elderly prisoners in ADX destroyed me…it’s one of the most heart wrenching things I can picture.” ([24:45])

• The Importance of Support:
  He notes that the vast majority of inmates receive no mail or support, and stresses the moral imperative for those who do receive support to “pay it forward” ([28:49]).

"If you get that sort of love and support, you have to pay it forward or you’re a piece of shit if you’re not sharing that with other people and trying to give them what you have."
— Eric King ([32:10])

Resistance Inside: Its Forms, Risks, and Rewards ([32:28])

• Acts of Resistance:
  Ranging from subtle (walking slowly, kindness, sarcastic responses) to direct confrontation (refusing to “cuff up,” fighting back physically, going to trial rather than accepting a plea).

• Personal Consequences:
  Resistance triggered harsh reprisals, including assaults by guards, denial of privileges, and harrowing experiences with “the team” (riot squad).

  • Guards used tactics such as pepper spray, “four pointing” (chaining limbs to bed), and humiliation ([36:34]).

• Psychological Value:
  King describes the emotional necessity of resistance:
  “We don’t get many chances to love ourselves and feel that we’ve done well…you grasp those [moments of resistance] and you cherish them” ([48:19]).

• “Running the Team” Defined:
  This is a form of protest where prisoners barricade themselves, refusing to comply with orders, knowingly risking violent extraction. King vividly describes a particular standoff ([42:28]).

"I am going to do this on my terms for one goddamn time. And it’s going to hurt me…it’s going to hurt for a long time, but God damn, I’m going to have that relief knowing that I did something for myself for once in this prison."
— Eric King ([48:04])

Images, Documentation, and the Power of Evidence ([37:14])

• Visual Evidence:
  The inclusion of rare photos in the book—as a result of winning discovery in his trial—provides irrefutable proof of torture methods (striker chairs, four-point restraint).
  “If I hadn’t done that, who would believe me that the government’s doing this…Now you have to believe me.” ([39:15])

Political and Personal Transformation ([49:04])

• Movement Beyond Vengeance:
  King reflects on how prison shifted his politics from primarily direct action and destruction to a philosophy centered on mutual aid, abolition, and constructive community-building.

"I am not going to tear down a system without building up a system…My anarchism…became open arms. It became, how can I help? How can I lift up somebody?"
— Eric King ([50:04])

Reentry, Community Work, and Book’s Purpose ([55:19], [57:24])

• Current Life and Organizing:
  King is involved in abolitionist and mutual aid efforts, working with groups like NorCal Resist and networks across the country.

• Purpose of the Book:
  Written both as therapy and documentation, King hopes to spark awareness, empathy, and action for incarcerated people.

  • He credits PM Press (“Joey and Courtney…they believed in me”) and uses every opportunity to channel his platform toward advocacy ([57:44]).

• Call to Action:
  King closes with a direct plea:

  • Support prisoners through NYC ABC Newsletter, Black & Pink, or local Books to Prisoners organizations ([60:32]).

"You don’t have to like them, you don’t have to like what they did, but you can appreciate the fact that they are going through something hard and they deserve love."
— Eric King ([61:08])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On what ADX feels like:
  "It does feel like you’re walking into your mausoleum. And you didn’t get to design it. It’s not built for your comfort." ([06:11])
• On isolation:
  "Interacting with humans is a learned skill and you can unlearn that skill very quickly." ([09:38])
• On claiming small victories:
  "You don’t get everything from me. You can’t take everything. So I’m gonna clean my cell every day, twice a day, because that gives me dopamine. I’m accomplishing something." ([11:54])
• On the humanity of prisoners:
  "Their stories are just as important, just as valuable, and their lives are just as valuable as mine." ([22:18])
• On elderly prisoners in ADX:
  "The fact that [King Blood] was still able to even yell like hello felt like a miracle to me. I don’t know how anyone can find that internal strength to do that, but since they have it, I need to honor it." ([27:36])
• On support and solidarity:
  "If you get that sort of love and support, you have to pay it forward or you’re a piece of shit if you’re not sharing that with other people and trying to give them what you have." ([32:10])
• On the pain and pride of resistance:
  "I am now going to control my environment and my body and you can’t destroy me anymore. I am going to do this on my terms for one goddamn time." ([48:04])
• On political transformation:
  "I am not gonna tear down a system without building up a system. My anarchism…became, ‘how can I help’?" ([50:04])
• On why he wrote the book:
  "When I wrote this book, I wrote it as a sense of therapy. I needed to get this stuff out. I needed people to know this happened to me." ([57:44])
• Final call to action:
  "Please support prisoners…you don’t have to like them, you don’t have to like what they did, but you can appreciate the fact that they are going through something hard and they deserve love." ([60:48])

Important Segment Timestamps

• [02:51] – Introduction & Eric King recounts his path to ADX Supermax
• [04:31] – Detailed description of ADX’s physical and psychological environment
• [08:05] – Loss of social contact and effects of total isolation
• [10:08] – The necessity of self-created routine in solitary
• [15:06] – Five-star days, moments of gratitude, and the night the lights went out
• [19:50] – Prison population demographics & humanizing "infamous" prisoners
• [24:45] – King’s observations of elderly prisoners
• [28:49] – The impact (and lack) of support networks inside
• [32:28] – Acts of resistance, consequences, and their psychological meaning
• [37:14] – The use of images to document abuse and torture
• [49:04] – King’s political transformation through incarceration
• [55:19] – Using the book to build solidarity & travel for prisoner support
• [57:44] – King’s motivations for writing the book & message to readers
• [60:32] – Resources for supporting prisoners & final message

Takeaways

• A Clean Hell is at once a personal memoir, an urgent ethnography, and a call to action—pulling back the curtain on the horrors of American Supermax isolation and insisting on solidarity with all who are caged.
• King’s account stresses the human need for dignity, routine, and connection even in the harshest circumstances, and the imperative to extend recognition and support to every person—regardless of their crime or politics.
• The episode not only illuminates the grim reality of prisons like ADX but also champions mutual aid, abolitionist organizing, and collective care as the only real path out.

Resource Links (as recommended by Eric King):

• NYC ABC Newsletter: nycabc.wordpress.com
• Black and Pink: blackandpink.org
• Books to Prisoners (various regions): Search for your local group

Host’s Note:
A Clean Hell: Anarchy and Abolition in America’s Most Notorious Dungeon is available from PM Press and wherever fine books are sold. For more, invite Eric King to your campus or event—he travels to advocate for those left behind.