Podcast Summary: New Books Network

Episode: Eva Meijer, "Multispecies Assemblies" (Vine Press, 2025)

Date: October 21, 2025
Host: Kyle Johansen
Guest: Dr. Eva Meijer

Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, host Kyle Johansen interviews philosopher, artist, and writer Eva Meijer about her new book, Multispecies Assemblies (Vine Press, 2025). Their conversation explores the book’s central inquiry: how can humans—and other animals, plants, and even broader environmental entities—meaningfully participate in collective democratic life? Meijer distills her philosophy of “multispecies politics” and delves into pressing questions about agency, representation, deliberation, and the need to overhaul our approaches to co-existence.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. About Eva Meijer and Her Work

[01:41–03:33]

• Meijer introduces herself as a philosopher, visual artist, novelist, and member of a multispecies art collective.
• She describes her collaborations with both humans and nonhuman animals (including her dog, Doris, and cat, Mias), producing art for and with nonhumans to foreground agency and foster wider awareness.

“We create art for nonhuman audiences and collaborate with nonhumans locally on projects...humans are obviously not the only beings who create art.”
— Eva Meijer [03:33]

2. The Multispecies Art Collective

[03:33–06:45]

• The collective explores "what art is and can be" in multispecies contexts, recognizing nonhumans—animals, birds, and even plants—as creators and audiences.
• Workshops and projects (like fountains for animals) aim to give back to the animals, countering art history’s extractive tendency.

3. Why “Multispecies Assemblies”?

[07:14–12:43]

• The book grows from Meijer's philosophical research on political voice and animal agency.
• She critiques human tendencies to define what animals want, pushing instead for frameworks where animals can participate in shaping shared life.
• Meijer positions her book not as a finished doctrine, but as a conceptual and practical starting point.

“The project of doing politics with other animals...we need to begin somewhere. ...We have very little knowledge about what other animals want from us, what kind of relationships they want with us.”
— Eva Meijer [09:35]

4. Experimenting with Assemblies and Vine Press

[13:06–17:47]

• Meijer discusses the need for “experiments” in co-learning with animals—though the term is fraught, she stresses consent and mutual flourishing.
• Her decision to publish with Vine Press (connected to Vine Sanctuary) aligns with the press’s realities of multispecies living and co-government.
• Sanctuaries like Vine serve as real-world frameworks for Meijer’s vision—settings where humans don’t “automatically know best.”

5. Grounded Examples: The Garden as a Micro Assembly

[17:47–24:25]

• Meijer uses her own garden as a living example: a complex ecosystem with animals, insects, plants, and “the garden as a whole” participating.
• She reflects on how even practical decisions, like trimming hedges, should ideally account for all beings involved, not just humans.

“It’s odd and problematic that as a human, I should take decisions without consulting those who actually use the garden…It would be even better if there would be a way to make democratic decisions about this garden.”
— Eva Meijer [19:54]

6. What Is an Assembly? Types and Political Power

[25:54–30:31]

• Assemblies, ancient and global in origin, bring groups together for collective decision-making—often far more participatory and deliberative than current representative democracies.
• Citizens’ assemblies are highlighted as a successful, more “future-oriented” model, often with different rules around inclusion.

7. Inclusion: Who Should Be Part of Assemblies?

[30:48–37:49]

• Meijer insists on the normative value of nonhumans expressing their own interests, criticizing “representation” that silences direct voices.
• The discussion broadens to include plants, fungi, and environmental collectives, all of whom might “participate” in ways that challenge conventional ideas about language and deliberation.

“Nonhuman animals are not objects to think about, but subjects to think with and to speak with... they should be able to phrase [their interests] and be listened to.”
— Eva Meijer [31:48]

8. Addressing Objections: “Species Skepticism” and the Limits of Knowing

[37:49–47:28]

• Meijer describes “species skepticism” as the presumption that humans cannot understand what nonhuman animals think or want—a view she sees as unjustly limiting.
• The conversation differentiates skepticism about knowing an animal’s mind versus skepticism about whether non-animals (plants, rivers, mountains) have minds or agency.
• Meijer is open to rethinking conceptual boundaries, noting that concepts like “mind” or “agency” may need expansion or poetic reframing.

“Maybe it’s easier to express the agency of the sea in a poem than it is in a philosophy article.”
— Eva Meijer [50:19]

9. Types of Inclusion: Voice vs. Representation

[51:28–56:45]

• Meijer distinguishes between two types of inclusion in assemblies: direct voice/participation versus representation by others.
• Sometimes, practical limitations mean representation is the only feasible route for now (e.g., for plants); the aim is to evolve toward direct voice as understanding deepens.

“Our world is currently quite human dominated… The idea is that the longer we do this...there will be a stronger sense of multispecies politics for all beings involved.”
— Eva Meijer [54:10]

10. Practical Steps Toward Multispecies Assemblies

[57:06–61:22]

• Meijer identifies several pragmatic, foundational goals:
  • Multispecies education: Reforming curricula and practices so children aren’t socialized into speciesism.
  • Critical veganism: As a practice, not just a lifestyle, for enacting justice.
  • Building communities: Transforming human-centric urban and social spaces into more inclusive, diverse environments.

“Human children very often are not speciesist...There are also studies showing that children are not born speciesist, but made speciesist.”
— Eva Meijer [57:44]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Human Limitation:
  “I thought we do need to start somewhere. So maybe I can say something about where we can start.”
  — Eva Meijer [08:55]

• Interconnected Flourishing:
  “This kind of society was in the back of my mind when I was thinking about multispecies assemblies…and in which these ideas are tested out.”
  — Eva Meijer [15:57]

• Philosophy as Poetics:
  “What I like about human language is that they can show us the world differently.”
  — Eva Meijer [50:54]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-------------|--------------------------------------------------------| | 01:41–03:33 | Meijer’s background and introduction | | 03:33–06:45 | The multispecies art collective | | 07:14–12:43 | Why write Multispecies Assemblies? | | 13:06–17:47 | Experiments and the significance of Vine Press | | 17:47–24:25 | Multispecies politics in the garden | | 25:54–30:31 | What is an assembly? Model(s) explained | | 30:48–37:49 | Who’s included and why? | | 37:49–47:28 | Addressing “species skepticism” | | 47:28–51:28 | Minds, agency, and conceptual challenges | | 51:28–56:45 | Voice vs. representation in inclusion | | 57:06–61:22 | Education, veganism, and building communities | | 61:39–62:56 | Meijer's current and future projects |

Conclusion

Meijer and Johansen’s dialogue weaves theory, lived experience, and activism into a compelling vision for genuinely inclusive democracy—one that transcends species boundaries. The episode is an accessible yet nuanced entry point to Multispecies Assemblies and the broader debates in animal studies, environmental philosophy, and political theory.

Meijer’s takeaway is clear: building just societies for all earthlings will require intellectual humility, creativity, experimentation, and a willingness to rethink the very terms on which we live together.

Recommended for:
Anyone interested in animal studies, political philosophy, environmental ethics, activism, or new ways of thinking about democracy and inclusion.

Find out more:

• Eva Meijer, Multispecies Assemblies (Vine Press, 2025)
• Vine Press & Vine Sanctuary
• Further resources on multispecies art, education, and political philosophy