Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network – Genocide Studies International Vol 16.1, Special Issue on The Future of Genocide Education
Host: Kelly McFall
Guests: Maureen Hebert (Azorian Institute’s Genocide and Human Rights University Program, Canada), James Waller (University of Connecticut)
Date: October 7, 2025

Overview

This episode marks the start of a collaboration between New Books in Genocide Studies and the journal Genocide Studies International, featuring authors from a special issue dedicated to "The Future of Genocide Education." Host Kelly McFall speaks with scholars Maureen Hebert and James Waller about the current state, primary challenges, and potential of genocide education—exploring both its transformative promises and limitations in academic and public contexts. Their conversation draws deeply from recent conferences and contributions to the journal, offering insight into the purpose, impact, and emotional burdens of teaching this critical subject.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Evolution and Reach of Genocide Education

Timestamps: 02:33–04:46

• Successes: Growth in programs, established definitions, and an emerging community of students and scholars ("groupies") engaged in the field.
  • Quote: "We've been able to build a cohort of students over several decades now who know...the basics of what genocide studies is all about..." — Maureen Hebert [02:33]
• Challenges: Self-selection bias (students who are already engaged); uncertainty about reaching broader, less invested demographics; doubts about whether education is fostering greater societal tolerance.
  • Quote: "I'm not so sure how well genocide studies has done, attracting students who are less knowledgeable to begin with, less interested." — Maureen Hebert [04:16]
• Efficacy and Measurement: The need for more rigorous assessment of genocide education’s transformative value; difficulties in demonstrating outcomes beyond content retention.
  • Quote: "We've not done a good job at measuring the efficacy of education that we just assume has some inherent value." — James Waller [06:51]

2. Purposes and Goals of Genocide Education

Timestamps: 07:19–12:54

• Transformative vs. Informative Model: Debate over whether courses should primarily teach history or aim to transform students' sense of agency and ethical responsibility.
  • Quote: "My goal is a high one. I want this course to be transformative..." — James Waller [08:05]
  • Quote: "We should be disturbed by it...that this really should be some kind of a more consequential course." — Maureen Hebert [10:13]
• Lack of Consensus: The field lacks clear agreement on goals; practitioners often feel isolated or uncertain about best practices.
  • Quote: "Everybody is making a good faith effort. But we were all, I think...mutually trying to figure out what this whole project was about." — Maureen Hebert [12:11]

3. Genocide Education Beyond the Classroom

Timestamps: 12:54–17:13

• Genocide education is intertwined with museums, memorials, and NGOs; learning happens in many settings beyond universities.
  • Quote: "Some of the most important work in genocide education is happening outside of these classrooms." — James Waller [16:41]
• Engagement with Sites and Memory: The importance of approaching memorial visits respectfully, not voyeuristically.
  • Quote: "If you do go to visit particularly sites where genocides have occurred...students and the rest of us need to visit these sites in the right spirit." — Maureen Hebert [14:16]

4. Deep Dives: The Authors’ Special Issue Contributions

A. Student Agency in Genocide Education (James Waller & Jack Meyerhofer)

Timestamps: 17:13–22:19

• Waller addresses student passivity and encourages active agency; students today may feel powerless given global/political challenges and the shadow of COVID.
  • Quote: "They felt...they were being shaped by the world, but they had no sense they could shape the world." — James Waller [18:32]
• Classroom strategies: Assignments like policy briefs and op-eds; real-life student impact (e.g., creating Genocide Awareness Month in New Hampshire).
  • Quote: "You just made law. That's what you did. That's fantastic." — James Waller [21:18]

B. Teaching Indigenous Genocides (Maureen Hebert)

Timestamps: 22:19–27:18

• The imperative, in Canada, of responding to Truth and Reconciliation Commission calls; teaching local Indigenous histories as “our own case.”
  • Quote: "The students need to know...this is our shared story. It's not the same story as Indigenous folks...but we have to know that this case is unlike any other one..." — Maureen Hebert [24:18]
• Challenges: Settler instructors navigating their positionality; avoiding appropriation or emotional burdening of Indigenous students.
  • Quote: "Trying to draw on indigenous resources, but without exploiting them...it's not their role to make me feel better or to kind of support me..." — Maureen Hebert [29:04]

5. Navigating Trauma, Emotion, and Responsibility in the Classroom

Timestamps: 32:56–41:07

• Emotional Intelligence: Genocide studies demands acute sensitivity to students' emotional responses—crying and distress are common.
  • Quote: "It's the only course that I teach in which crying is a regular feature." — Maureen Hebert [29:04]
• Support Structures: Need for boundaries, self-care (e.g., scheduling work earlier in the day), and reminders for students to seek help when overwhelmed.
  • Quote: "I communicate...this course is raised. They know they have the freedom to leave a class without penalty if the material has become too difficult." — James Waller [35:12]
• Encouraging Joy and Solidarity: Assignments to share moments of joy; courses fostering unique classroom bonds.
  • Quote: "I want you to go out and enjoy the rest of your day...close the book, so to speak, on what we just talked about." — Maureen Hebert [39:58]
  • Quote: "The course actually builds a really excellent sense of solidarity by the end." — Maureen Hebert [41:40]

6. Reflections from the Conference on Genocide Education

Timestamps: 42:01–47:13

• Diversity of Approaches: Exposure to varying pedagogical philosophies and practices; the value of open professional dialogue.
  • Quote: "I sat there and I thought, God, I'd love to take a class with that person..." — James Waller [42:33]
  • Quote: "I did appreciate everybody's confusion. It kind of reminded me of the title of the famous Maimonides book, Guide for the Perplexed." — Maureen Hebert [44:29]
• Permission to Experiment: Conference gave Hebert permission to incorporate more visual (yet sensitive) material into her teaching.

7. Genocide Education and the Current Political Moment

Timestamps: 47:13–51:35

• Relevance and Urgency: Contemporary threats to democracy and ongoing genocides make course content highly relevant—students readily connect coursework to real-life events.
  • Quote: "Our democratic institutions are under threat...these aren't abstract concepts anymore..." — James Waller [47:59]
  • Quote: "[Students] are very easily able to make that kind of connection... to what's happening in the US, which from across the border, is a very shocking thing." — Maureen Hebert [50:08]

Notable Quotes (with Attribution & Timestamps)

• "I want this course to be transformative. I want it to transform their understanding of the world they live in and most importantly, their understanding of their role in the world they live in..." — James Waller [08:05]
• "We should be disturbed by it...that we are really here to kind of learn about and maybe tell other people about and then act with this kind of knowledge..." — Maureen Hebert [10:13]
• "Some of the most important work in genocide education is happening outside of these classrooms." — James Waller [16:41]
• "You just made law. That's what you did. That's fantastic." — James Waller [21:18]
• "[Indigenous genocide] is our original national crime. It is our original shameful act...the settler population...are immediate and consistent and ongoing beneficiaries of the fact of settler colonialism." — Maureen Hebert [24:18]
• "It's not guilt I'm after there, it's more the responsibility that comes with that knowledge." — James Waller [36:48]
• "The moment that for me, I cease to feel anything about this subject, that's the moment that I need to stop teaching this subject..." — Maureen Hebert [39:24]

Concluding Thoughts

The episode closes with a strong reminder of the ongoing necessity of genocide education amid current global instability and democratic erosion. While the field wrestles with big questions—purpose, impact, and emotional toll—its practitioners work with passion, humility, and a deep sense of responsibility for both past and present. The special issue of Genocide Studies International is recommended for further exploration of these themes.

For further information, including access to the special issue, visit the University of Toronto Press or the Genocide Studies International journal homepage.