Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Vladislav Ilić
Guest: Dr. Georgios Giannakopoulos
Episode: "The Interpreters: British Internationalism and Empire in Southeastern Europe, 1870-1930" (Manchester UP, 2025)
Date: November 6, 2025

Overview

This episode spotlights Dr. Georgios Giannakopoulos’s new book, "The Interpreters: British Internationalism and Empire in Southeastern Europe, 1870-1930." The conversation explores British intellectuals’ engagement with Southeastern Europe and how their interpretations shaped discourses about empire, nationalism, liberalism, and internationalism. Dr. Giannakopoulos details the evolution of these interpreters’ roles, their influence on policy and public understanding, and the enduring legacy of their work.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Origins of the Book and the Term “Interpreters”

• Personal Journey: Giannakopoulos describes the book’s “three lives,” beginning with reflections on East/West categories during the 9/11 era and influenced by Edward Said’s critique of civilizational discourse.
  “The events of the early 2000s... got me thinking about big categories, the east, the west, and the resurfacing of civilizational discourses.” (03:41, B)
• Academic Development: A master’s thesis on Arnold Toynbee and eventual research in Britain broadened his focus from Greek/Turkish dynamics to larger imperial and international frameworks.
• “Interpreter” as a Concept: The author rejects labels like “mediators” or “meddlers” in favor of “interpreters,” emphasizing the inevitable misunderstanding and hierarchical knowledge exchange in acts of interpretation.
  “Every act of interpretation always involves some misunderstanding. So there’s some incommensurability... between the person who's doing the interpreting and the actor who is vocalizing their own... voice.” (08:30, B)

2. The British Imperial and International Context

• Dialogue with Other Empires: The book links British interpretations of Southeastern Europe to similar challenges in the Habsburg and Ottoman Empires—managing diversity and nationalist tensions.
• Irish and Eastern Questions: The Irish home rule debate and the “Eastern Question” (Ottoman decline) are parallel problems shaping British approaches to nationality and imperial crisis.

3. The 1870s: Catalyst for British Interest

• Political Inflection Point: The 1870s marked a surge in British public and political attention to Southeastern Europe, especially over humanitarian crises in Ottoman Bulgaria, which became ammunition in domestic party disputes.
  “A faraway land... all of a sudden becomes a focal point in the British political debate.” (12:18, B)

4. Archaeologists as Early Interpreters

• Arthur Evans and Narrative Construction: British archaeologists like Evans constructed narratives about the region’s place in “Western civilization,” often Christianizing and simplifying its complex history. “Through his lenses, through his practice, we discover strategies of Christianizing a region that was far more complex than he made it out to be.” (14:21, B)

5. Internationalism, Nationalism, and Critique

• Radical Journalists: Figures like Henry Brailsford crossed boundaries between critique of British imperialism and regional nationalisms, drawing analogies between the Irish, Bulgarian, and Cretan peasants. “What is... interesting is that I show in the book how his critique of British imperialism... connects with his critique of certain regional nationalism, nationalisms in Macedonia.” (18:37, B)
• Fluidity of “Liberal Internationalism”: Interpretations and usages of the term “liberal internationalism” were amorphous and intertwined with socialist ideas.
• Overlap in Rhetorical Strategies: British interpreters applied lessons from Southeastern Europe to debates over imperial governance and humanitarian crises at home.

6. Habsburg Models and British Home Rule

• Cross-Referencing Empires: The nationality issues in Austria-Hungary informed British debates about Irish and Scottish autonomy, with some advocating Austro-Hungarian arrangements as templates.
• Robert William Seton-Watson: A central figure who reframed Austria-Hungary as a “prison house of nationalities,” influencing both scholarship and policy.
  “He has a big share in turning the narrative of Austria Hungary from a multinational empire with its problems to a prison house of nationalities.” (21:55, B)

7. Policy Influence and Public Education During WWI

• From Intellectual to Policy Advisor: By WWI, several interpreters became civil servants and advisors, tasked with “enlightening the public” on complex national issues.
• Propaganda and National Narratives: The British cause was framed as support for “small nations,” with interpreters providing both policy input and cultural education.

8. Gender Dynamics Among Interpreters

• Predominantly Male Networks: The main figures in international relations networks were men, but notable exceptions like Mary Edith Durham (anthropologist in Albanian and Yugoslav contexts) played key roles and debated figures like Seton-Watson. “Women’s writing and thinking on international relations... doesn’t come through established channels.” (29:24, B)

9. Legacy and Memory of the Interpreters

• Intellectual Infrastructure: The interpreters’ institutional contributions persist in academic programs and public memory (e.g., School of Eastern European and Slavonic Studies at UCL, commemorations like those for C.A. Macartney). “They create structures of knowledge that still exist today... The impact survives as a cultural construct.” (31:59, B)
• Contemporary Relevance: There are modern echoes of the interpreter’s role in the way late 20th-century commentary on Balkan crises recycles old tropes.

10. Future Directions

• Current Research: Dr. Giannakopoulos envisions a possible sequel tracing similar themes into the Cold War and post-communist eras, as well as a new project on international interventions in modern Greek history.
  “Tracing liberal forms of writing about southeastern Europe from the Second World War to the 1990s and early 2000s.” (36:38, B)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “Every act of interpretation always involves some misunderstanding.” (08:30, B)
• “A faraway land... becomes a focal point in British political debate.” (12:18, B)
• “Through his lenses... we discover strategies of Christianizing a region that was far more complex than he made it out to be.” (14:21, B)
• “By closely examining [Brailsford’s] writings on Crete, on Macedonia, what we discover is a logic of solving problems... that at the same time he's doing the same things... about the Irish question.” (18:37, B)
• “Seton Watson... has a big share in turning the narrative... from a multinational empire... to a prison house of nationalities.” (21:55, B)
• “They create structures of knowledge that still exist today... The impact survives as a cultural construct.” (31:59, B)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [03:41] Origins of the Book and “Interpreters”
• [07:57] British Imperial Parallels and Methodology
• [12:18] The 1870s as a Political Watershed
• [14:21] Archaeologists and Historical Narratives
• [17:09] Liberal Internationalism and Ottoman Macedonia/Crete
• [21:55] Habsburg Case Studies and Seton-Watson
• [27:00] Interpreters as Policy Advisors During WWI
• [29:24] Gender Dynamics
• [31:59] Legacy and Modern Parallels
• [36:38] The Author’s Next Research Steps

Conclusion

This episode provides a nuanced look into how a select cohort of British intellectuals—termed “interpreters”—engaged with Southeastern Europe from the late 19th to early 20th centuries. Through archival research and a cross-imperial lens, Dr. Giannakopoulos reveals how their interpretations informed not just British political debates, but also produced enduring frameworks for understanding the region’s place in both academic and cultural memory.