Podcast Summary:

New Books Network — Georgios Tsourous, Orthodox Choreographies: Boundaries, Borders and Materiality in Jerusalem's Old City (Gorgias Press, 2024)
Aired: September 30, 2025
Host: Roberto Mezzo
Guest: Dr. Georgios Tsourous

Episode Overview

This episode features anthropologist Dr. Georgios Tsourous, discussing his new book Orthodox Choreographies: Boundaries, Borders and Materiality in Jerusalem's Old City. The conversation explores how lived religion takes shape in one of Christianity’s most contested sites—the Church of the Holy Sepulchre—focusing on everyday practices, community boundaries, the negotiation of shared sacred spaces, and the subtle but profound ways Christian communities interact, coexist, and occasionally clash within the Old City of Jerusalem.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Book Origins and Ethnographic Focus

• Accidental Beginning: Tsourous began studying the Greek Orthodox (Rum Orthodox) community after a suggestion from his brother and subsequent contact with anthropologist Glenn Bowman.
• First Ethnography of Its Kind: His research represents the first extensive ethnographic study of daily life within the Patriarchate of Jerusalem and the Rum Orthodox community.
  • “The book really began with a casual nudge from my brother, but it kind of developed into a much deeper exploration of borders, coexistence, you know, and the material realities of this sacred space.” (05:22)

Methodology: Studying Boundaries and Borders

• Boundaries are conceptual—identity, theology, history.
• Borders are material—doors, candles, rituals that mark and create real lines in space.
  • “These things might sound trivial, but they're actually the borders that sustain coexistence. So that's why I use the term choreographies.” (08:22)
• Participant Observation: Tsourous emphasizes long-term presence, blending observation and participation to capture everyday religious choreography.

2. Affective Experiences and Storytelling

• Jerusalem’s sacred spaces evoke powerful emotional responses in pilgrims and locals alike.
• A Story not in the Book:
  • Tsourous recounts assisting an American Protestant woman who found herself moved—literally to tears—by her experience in the church, highlighting how even those outside the Orthodox tradition are profoundly affected.
    • “It was a moment that crystallized for me how this space doesn't just preserve history, but it does provoke an emotional and spiritual response that can be, perhaps, for some people, life changing...” (12:08)

3. Historical Context and Multi-Temporality

• Rich Layered History: The Church has evolved since the 4th century and undergone transformation through Byzantine, Persian, Crusader, Ottoman, British, Jordanian, and Israeli periods.
• Status Quo Arrangement: Six Christian communities (Greek Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Armenians, Copts, Syriacs, Ethiopians) share space through intricate, legally codified routines set during the Ottoman period and still enforced today.
  • The “Immovable Ladder”: Symbolizes the frozen, negotiated agreements—no one dares move it, since it sits at the intersection of Orthodox and Armenian space.

Multi-Temporality in Liturgy

• Layered Time:
  • Historical time (Jesus’ tomb as lived reality),
  • Liturgical/custodial time (rituals frozen since the 18th century),
  • Material time (stones and objects linking past and present).
  • “The past isn't left behind, it animates the present. So when people light a candle... they're not just remembering something that happened 2,000 years ago, they are entering into it as a living reality.” (19:40)

4. The Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre

• Dual Roles: Monks are simultaneously men of prayer and key administrators, negotiators with other Churches, and political actors.
• Tensions: Between their monastic ideals and worldly responsibilities, especially regarding money, hospitality, and constant presence among throngs of pilgrims and laity.
  • "They are men of prayer and simplicity, yet drawn into administration, finance, politics, and constant human interaction." (25:47)

Leadership Styles (Case Studies)

• Charismatic Authority: Bishop Nicolaus used personal charisma and presence to resolve tensions.
• Networked Authority: Archimandrite Petros relied on his position and social ties to manage church operations.
  • "Authority is also sustained through social ties and economic negotiation." (27:03)

5. Greek-Clergy & Arab-Laity Tensions

• Ethnic and Clerical Divide: Greek celibate monks hold most senior positions; Arab (Palestinian) married parish clergy have limited advancement.
• Land as a Flashpoint: The Patriarchate is a major landowner; how land is managed or sold creates ongoing tension between motives of institutional survival and local Palestinian identity.
  • “Selling land, especially to their own hands, is not something they would contemplate. And when the patriarchate has done so, it has sparked outrage.” (31:08)

6. Boundaries, Borders, and Daily Choreographies in the Church

• Everyday Life: Marked by a series of minute negotiations—who moves which candle, who enters which door, who performs what ritual when.
• Example: The subtle act of removing a candle stand signaled an Armenian procession could begin after the Greeks finished.
  • "The removal of that candle was the signal that the border has shifted and that the space now is ready to change hands." (38:13)
• Rules and Breaches: Most rules work to prevent disputes, but small infractions sometimes escalate. Coexistence depends on constant, mutual adjustment.

7. Border Crossing and Inter-communal Encounters

• Father Ioannis: Embodies both strict protection of the status quo and an openness to subtle gestures of inter-church cooperation.
  • Exchanging objects and kindness (e.g., gifting an icon, receiving chocolates from a Catholic nun) can cross more boundaries than official negotiation.
  • "Those chocolates had crossed more borders than most official negotiations ever could." (43:21)

8. Role of the State and Modern Implications

• State as Guarantor: Israel, like past empires, polices the status quo. Its interventions are seen as necessary (for security) but often viewed with suspicion if perceived as biasing or altering sacred arrangements.
  • "Israel's role is a paradox. On one hand it guarantees stability... On the other hand, the state's involvement is also a reminder that this sacred space is embedded in a contested city..." (46:12)

9. Holy Light Ceremony: Materiality and Politics

• Holy Saturday: Patriarch emerges from the tomb with the “miraculous” Holy Light. The ritual is intensely physical—fire, wax, candles—spreading from person to person.
• Affective Power: For pilgrims, the experience is overwhelming and deeply spiritual.
• Political Layer: Order of receiving the light (Greeks, Armenians, others) and heavy Israeli security underlines ritual’s political meanings and tensions.
  • "Materiality here is very important and is not incidental. It is what makes this miracle tangible... The choreography of who receives the light first is also highly symbolic." (50:00)

10. Devotional Life and Crossing Everyday Borders

• Palestinian Orthodox Practices: Routinely cross denominational, ethnic, and geographic lines (e.g. attending multiple Christmas feasts, processions through different quarters).
• “For someone like Samira, crossing them was not a political act. It was a necessity, spiritual sort of necessity. You know, celebrating only one Christmas would have felt incomplete.” (55:15)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Coexistence is rarely grand or idealized. It's more fragile and mundane and material... the Church of the Holy Sepulchre shows that difference can be managed not by erasing borders, but by living with them, negotiating them, and perhaps occasionally crossing them at the same time." — Dr. Georgios Tsourous (57:20)
• “Those chocolates had crossed more borders than most official negotiations ever could.” — Dr. Georgios Tsourous on inter-communal kindness (43:21)
• "The removal of that candle was the signal that the border has shifted and that the space now is ready to change hands." — Dr. Georgios Tsourous (38:13)
• "For her, devotion was not confined to one calendar or one community. It was about inhabiting the fullness of Jerusalem's Christian life." (54:47)
• "Borders in Jerusalem are real, but they are constantly crossed." (54:12)

Important Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |:-------------:|:--------------------------------------------------------| | 03:24 | Book origins; the Rum Orthodox explained | | 06:20 | Methodology: Boundaries & Borders in practice | | 10:15 | Emotional responses & pilgrim encounters | | 14:33 | Historical development & the status quo arrangement | | 19:23 | Multi-temporality and liturgical cycles | | 22:44 | Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre: daily monastic life | | 26:29 | Leadership case studies: charisma vs. network authority | | 29:01 | Greeks vs. local Palestinian Orthodox: clergy tensions | | 34:44 | Choreographies & negotiating daily life in the Church | | 38:13 | Subtle border-crossing and ritual handovers | | 40:31 | Father Ioannis: border-crossing and generosity | | 45:01 | The state’s role (Israel) as status quo guarantor | | 48:37 | The Holy Light Ceremony: affect, materiality, politics | | 52:18 | Palestinian Orthodox devotional practice in the city | | 56:59 | Conclusions: Coexistence, materiality, small acts matter |

Concluding Reflections

Dr. Tsourous concludes that the Church of the Holy Sepulchre exemplifies how fragile, practical, and embodied coexistence can be both in religious and broader social contexts. Boundaries and borders—conceptual, material—are negotiated daily through mundane, sometimes silent acts of adjustment and accommodation. The lessons from Jerusalem’s Old City are about the possibility (and ongoing challenge) of living with difference, not erasing it:

• "Coexistence is fragile, often messy, but it's possible and it's worth cultivating from the ground up." (60:47)

Recommended For:
Anyone interested in lived religion, Jerusalem studies, anthropology of Christianity, interfaith coexistence, ritual, or sacred geography.

Listen/Read More:
Find Orthodox Choreographies: Boundaries, Borders and Materiality in Jerusalem's Old City (Gorgias Press, 2024) and more author interviews on the New Books Network.