New Books Network: Interview with Hollay Ghadery on The Unravelling of Ou (Palimpsest Press, 2026)

Episode Date: February 4, 2026
Host: Farzana Doctor
Guest: Hollay Ghadery
Book: The Unravelling of Ou
Publisher: Palimpsest Press

Episode Overview

This episode of New Books Network features guest host Farzana Doctor in conversation with author Hollay Ghadery about her new novel, The Unravelling of Ou. The discussion focuses on the book’s exploration of imagination, mental health, intergenerational trauma, and the complicated relationships between mothers and daughters, told through the unique perspective of a genderless Farsi-speaking sock puppet narrator named Ecology Paul (or "Ou"). Ghadery shares her creative process, reflections on craft, and thoughts on literary citizenship, making for a deeply engaging and insightful episode.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of the Unique Narrator: Ecology Paul (“Ou”)

• Farsi Pronoun & Gender: Ou is taken from Farsi, meaning "he/she"—a non-gendered pronoun. Ghadery uses this to emphasize a universality and avoid gendering the puppet, adding to its whimsical and magical quality (04:37).
• Creative Inspirations: The idea of a puppet as an emotional coping mechanism was influenced by Adele Wiseman’s memoir Old Woman at Play and reflections on motherhood, female shame, and queer identity.
• Narrative Voice Development: Ghadery attempted to write Ecology Paul as a tougher, sterner character but found the voice naturally gentle and endearing—a “soft place in the world that I think we all need so badly.” (07:38)
• Quotable:

  “The puppet is the soft place in the world that I think we all need so badly.”
  —Hollay Ghadery (08:03)

2. Excerpt Reading and Narrative Tone

• Opening Scene: Ghadery reads from the novel's first chapter, immersing listeners in the poetic, whimsical, and emotionally charged voice of Ou. The passage captures Minou and the puppet's bond, vivid sensory details, and the tension of family and belonging (09:32–13:03).
• Notable Quote from the Reading:

  “Because I may be the stuff of stuffing and nonsense, but I can feel as much as Minu.”
  —Ou, as read by Hollay Ghadery (12:08)

3. Themes of Mothers, Daughters, and Internalized Misogyny

• Inheritance of Shame: Ghadery explores how mothers unintentionally transmit patterns of internalized misogyny and shame, often under the belief that they're protecting their daughters.
• Personal Reflection: She connects the theme to her own experiences as both a mother and a daughter, discussing the struggle to break cycles of judgment and constraint imposed by patriarchal values.
• Social Critique: Ghadery notes the collective potential if women refrained from reinforcing harmful norms, advocating for solidarity and support within female communities.
• Quotable:

  “If every woman just said, you know, we are not going to do this. We are not going to be catty, critical or competitive with other women… So much could be solved just by women coming together.”
  —Hollay Ghadery (16:46)

4. Exile, Powerlessness, and Family Dynamics

• Exile as Both Literary Device and Lived Reality: The book addresses familial exile—children sent from Iran to Canada not always as protection, but “course correction” by parents.
• No Necessary Tragedy: Ghadery deliberately avoids relying on deaths or cosmic tragedies to drive the plot, focusing on ordinary grievances and everyday wounds, which she argues are often powerful enough to shape lives (18:18).
• Childism: Ghadery discusses “childism”—viewing children as “proto humans”—and the consequences of denying children autonomy, compassion, and voice (19:45).
• Quotable:

  “I wanted to explore that frustration that I felt feeling so powerless over everything that happened in my life.”
  —Hollay Ghadery (21:31)

5. Craft: Vivid Descriptive Language and Nonlinear Structure

• Metaphor Variety: Ghadery unintentionally avoids repetitive metaphors (e.g., for eyes). She credits years of poetry writing, where repeated metaphors are seen as a “cardinal sin,” for developing this instinct (22:26).
• Advice for Writers:

  “Prose writers need to read more poetry... You can do a lot, stretch it, play. And I think poetry encourages you to play.”
  —Hollay Ghadery (22:36)

• Nonlinear Storytelling: Rather than chronological order, Ghadery prefers an associative, feeling-driven flow, using scene details and thematic chapter headings to gently orient readers without explicit time markers (24:44).
• Quotable:

  “Feeling is just like everything at once. There’s a simultaneous nature to experience where you’re feeling everything at once.”
  —Hollay Ghadery (25:16)

6. Literary Citizenship & Community Involvement

• Passion for Community-Building: Ghadery stresses the shrinking opportunities for writers in traditional media, and the importance of grassroots support—attending events, reviewing books, talking about literature in one’s community.
• Personal Motivation: Her involvement comes from a deep love of books and a sense of duty to enrich the literary landscape, especially in the face of cultural “starvation” for the arts (29:42).
• Advice for Readers/Writers:

  “Talk about books. Just talk about them... Join a book club, especially if you have a local library book club... Request that they carry books published by Canadian publishers specifically.”
  —Hollay Ghadery (31:49)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Puppet as a Coping Mechanism and Literalization of Inner Voice:

  "The puppet seemed like the...now it seems like the most natural thing I could have done at the time."
  —Hollay Ghadery (06:23)

• On Intergenerational Shame:

  “I don’t believe that most mothers are trying to do harm. I think that again, we’ve been passed on these legacies of shame and fear and we pass those on just because that’s what we’ve been taught will...supposed to make us safe.”
  —Hollay Ghadery (15:35)

• On Literary Culture’s Challenges:

  “Our culture is suffering. There’s not as many opportunities for writers…If there’s not this movement of just the community and of readers...uplifting these things, it is not going to exist.”
  —Hollay Ghadery (29:42)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Book Setup — 01:01
• Ecology Paul Explained; Farsi Pronoun "Ou" — 04:04
• Creative Process Behind the Puppet Narrator — 04:37–08:31
• Author Excerpt Reading (Chapter 1) — 09:32–13:03
• Theme of Mothers & Daughters, Internalized Misogyny — 13:37–17:26
• Exile, Powerlessness, and Family Decisions — 17:26–21:34
• Craft: Metaphor Variety & Nonlinear Narrative — 22:26–26:47
• Ghadery's Literary Citizenship and Advice to Writers/Readers — 26:47–32:37
• Episode Closing — 32:37–end

Summary Flow & Recommendations

Through her conversation with Farzana Doctor, Hollay Ghadery unpacks the craft and emotion behind The Unravelling of Ou, offering insight into drawing on lived experience to tackle complex intergenerational and cultural themes with a fresh, magical-realist lens. She encourages literary community-building at every level and leaves readers and writers with practical inspiration: support local books, cultivate curiosity in language, and participate in the cultural conversation, however possible.

Recommended for:
Fans of literary fiction, magical realism, intergenerational stories, those interested in immigrant experiences, mother-daughter relationships, and the intersections of art, identity, and community.