Podcast Summary: "How Government Made the U.S. into a Manufacturing Powerhouse"

Podcast: New Books Network (People and Things)
Host: Lee Vinsel
Guest: Colleen Dunlavy, Professor Emerita of History, University of Wisconsin–Madison
Date: November 10, 2025

Overview of Episode

This episode dives deep into Colleen Dunlavy’s new book, Small, Medium, Large: How Government Made the U.S. into a Manufacturing Powerhouse. The discussion centers on the history of standards and standardization in American manufacturing, with special focus on the overlooked role of government in creating industry-wide agreements on product sizes and the resultant transformation of production, markets, and everyday life. From the chaos of pre-World War I product diversity to the game-changing simplification drives led by government actors like Herbert Hoover, Dunlavy and host Lee Vinsel explore how state intervention, rather than “free market” forces alone, shaped the landscape of US manufacturing.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genesis and Focus of the Book

• Book’s Aim: Traces the origins of standard sizes in manufactured goods—a largely invisible aspect of daily life—revealing the crucial role of government in orchestrating industry-wide agreements and mass production.
• Central Argument: Mass production and standardization did not occur “naturally” or solely due to market forces, but were actively promoted and organized by government, especially in crisis and post-crisis periods.

“I called it the unnaturalness of mass production... it didn’t occur naturally. Even after manufacturers were taught how to mass produce, they went back to doing what they did before.” —Colleen Dunlavy [10:21]

2. Historical Context: Pre-WWI Product Diversity

• Market Diversity: Prior to World War I, immense diversity existed in everyday products — e.g., 78 sizes of beds after WWI persisted from an even more chaotic prewar market.
• Drivers of Diversity:
  • Small and middling manufacturers catering to local or specialized markets.
  • "Hand to mouth buying" (retailers ordering small numbers frequently) incentivized short production runs and customization.
  • Regulatory fragmentation: Federal, state, and municipal laws led to differing standards across regions, particularly in sectors like food and electrical goods.

“It boggles the mind to think about facing 78 different [bed] sizes. ...No fitted sheets.” —Colleen Dunlavy [32:17]

3. World War I: The Turning Point

• Role of Arch Wilkinson Shaw & Government Mobilization:
  • Shaw led the Conservation Division (initially the Commercial Economy Board), orchestrating simplification to conserve resources for the war effort.
  • Emphasis on reducing product varieties, thus saving materials, labor, and logistics capacity (e.g., standardizing bread returns, fabric sample sizes, and even influencing women’s fashion for fabric conservation).

“He’s the one who approached the Council of National Defense about creating this Conservation Division... wartime. Right. So things get done really fast. They created it like, you know, in 24 hours and appointed him head of it.” —Colleen Dunlavy [23:00]

• Impact on Everyday Life:
  • Example: Bureaucratically promoted “slim silhouette” in women’s dresses during WWI to conserve wool—state-supported fashion!

“The French government did call together the Paris dress designers and get them to agree to this proposal from the American government. ...Slim silhouette. Conserve wool for the war, et cetera, et cetera.” —Colleen Dunlavy [45:24]

4. Postwar Retreat & Resurgence of Diversity

• Immediate Post-WWI: Manufacturers returned rapidly to diverse product lines as soon as government controls ended (demobilization, consumer resentment toward limited choices, economic turmoil).

“I don’t think you can put too much weight on the kind of chaotic conditions when the war ended. The government demobilized practically overnight.” —Colleen Dunlavy [46:42]

• Why Didn’t Standardization Stick Right Away?
  • Mass production and simplification were associated with wartime hardship, limited choice, and required new ‘salesmanship’ to convince both consumers and businesses of their virtues in peacetime.

5. The 1920s: Herbert Hoover and The Department of Commerce

• Hoover’s Pivotal Role:
  • Recreated WWI’s Conservation Division within the Department of Commerce, as the Division of Simplified Practice.
  • Voluntary, Business-Led Standards: Commerce focused on marshaling trade associations to agree on certain sizes/configurations, using data showing that 20% of varieties accounted for 80% of sales.
  • Department didn’t dictate which standards, but facilitated agreement and coordinated industry-wide adoption, reducing risk for any one manufacturer.

“He just wanted them to agree on standards… It was in the wartime...entirely voluntary process.” —Colleen Dunlavy [54:11]

• Publicity and Process:
  • Massive campaign to ‘sell’ simplification, organizing trade association meetings, analyzing sales data, and publishing standards as “simplified practice recommendations”.
  • Ongoing review through standing committees and industry collaboration.

6. Enduring and Broader Lessons

• The Role of “Middling Firms”:
  • Not just giant corporations or tiny shops, but the often-overlooked “middle-sized” manufacturers played a crucial role in the dynamics of standardization and mass production.
• Influence of Political Structures:
  • U.S. federal structure (states vs. federal authority) and regulatory pluralism shaped the paths of standardization, contrasting strongly with German or other models.

“The only way you can talk about the 19th century as laissez faire is to leave the state and local governments out of the picture.” —Colleen Dunlavy [28:34]

• Promotion vs. Regulation:
  • The U.S. government’s role in promoting certain economic activities (e.g., through canal building, standards setting) is as significant as its regulatory interventions.

“This is like one very important episode that fits into a long pattern. Right. Into a pattern of government promotion, the twin of regulation.” —Colleen Dunlavy [61:46]

• Impact on American Standard of Living:
  • Standardization and mass production as strategies to elevate the national standard of living and democratize consumer goods.

“That’s how you improve quality of life.” —Colleen Dunlavy [62:13]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | 10:21 | “I called it the unnaturalness of mass production... it didn’t occur naturally. Even after manufacturers were taught how to mass produce, they went back to doing what they did before.” | Colleen Dunlavy | | 23:00 | “He’s the one who approached the Council of National Defense about creating this Conservation Division... wartime. Right. So things get done really fast.” | Colleen Dunlavy | | 32:17 | “It boggles the mind to think about facing 78 different [bed] sizes. ...No fitted sheets.” | Colleen Dunlavy | | 28:34 | “The only way you can talk about the 19th century as laissez faire is to leave the state and local governments out of the picture.” | Colleen Dunlavy | | 45:24 | “The French government did call together the Paris dress designers and get them to agree to this proposal from the American government...slim silhouette. Conserve wool for the war, et cetera, et cetera.” | Colleen Dunlavy | | 54:11 | “He just wanted them to agree on standards… It was in the wartime...entirely voluntary process.” | Colleen Dunlavy | | 61:46 | “This is like one very important episode that fits into a long pattern. Right. Into a pattern of government promotion, the twin of regulation.” | Colleen Dunlavy |

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:07–05:28 – Host’s introduction, importance of standards, nerding out about standardization.
• 05:29–16:27 – Origins and aims of Colleen’s work; why and how she wrote the book.
• 21:22–24:39 – Role of “middling” firms and key figures Shaw & Hoover.
• 25:35–34:00 – The “entrepreneurial state” in context—beyond Mazzucato, the long, continuous role of government in economic change.
• 39:03–45:49 – WWI simplification: politics, agency, and effects—including on cultural products like fashion.
• 46:42–50:41 – Why product diversity returned postwar; postwar consumer and business dynamics.
• 52:20–60:21 – The 1920s drive for voluntary standardization, Hoover’s reorganization, Commerce Department tactics.
• 60:43–62:57 – The big picture: government’s long-standing influence on economic structures, standards, and quality of life.
• 64:18–67:22 – Dunlavy’s next research focus: The history of the American corporation and the influence of U.S. political structure.

Takeaways & Lessons

• Standardization was NOT a natural evolution of capitalism but required robust, organized government intervention, especially at moments of crisis and after, driven by visionary administrators like Shaw and Hoover.
• The shape and success of American mass production hinged on political structures and strategies of active state promotion—not just regulation—often working through subtle, voluntary industry coordination.
• Both business history and everyday conveniences (think: the mattress sizes at your local store, the prevalence of affordable goods) are direct outcomes of these historical processes, and their legacy continues in today’s debates about the state’s economic role.
• Understanding the U.S. manufacturing miracle means reckoning with the invisible but pervasive hand of government—across all scales, from beds to bread to bricks.

For listeners interested in business history, government policy, or how the mundane gets made, this episode is a lively, insightful journey through the unexpected terrain of American economic organization—where bureaucracy, war, industry, and design all converge.