Podcast Summary:

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Ian Gittins, "The Cure: A Perfect Dream" (Gemini Books, 2025)
Host: Bradley Morgan
Guest: Ian Gittins
Date: February 12, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of the New Books Network explores the legacy and ongoing story of The Cure, one of alternative music’s most enduring bands. Host Bradley Morgan interviews Ian Gittins, music journalist and author of the updated edition of The Cure: A Perfect Dream. Their conversation traces the group’s nearly five-decade career, focusing on creative turning points, lineup changes, Robert Smith’s singular vision, industry battles, and the band’s recent resurgence. Gittins offers insight into the writing and updating of his book, newly chronicling The Cure’s 21st-century triumphs and struggles, and putting into perspective their latest album, Songs of a Lost World, and approaching 50th anniversary.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Book’s Aims and Structure

• [01:04] "It's basically a career-long history of The Cure, which attempts to be definitive... looking at each album one by one, looking at where the band was at, looking at their creative process, really something that hopefully will be loved by fans but also will reach a wider audience." — Ian Gittins

Origins and Early Albums

The Cure’s punk roots and ambitions

• Formed in the English suburbs in the late 1970s, The Cure evolved from bands Malice and Easy Cure.
• Early sound described as “scratchy raw rudimental” (02:01), more aligned with post-punk/art-punk than later lush styles.
• Initial industry indifference; Chris Parry’s discovery and management pivotal.

Tension over debut album — Three Imaginary Boys

• Robert Smith, at 19, had “a vision of making music about... the existential angst of the human condition” (03:09), but Parry imposed industry instincts.
• Smith lacked experience to express his sonic vision; Parry produced and shaped both the sound and the anti-image album cover with little input from the band.
• Notable quote: "They didn't know that was gonna happen until they were presented with it as a fait accompli..." — Ian Gittins [04:20]

Creative breakthrough with 17 Seconds

• After conflicts on the debut, Smith took greater control; Mike Hedges joined as co-producer.
• 17 Seconds (1980) was recorded in less than two weeks under tight budget constraints, helping focus Smith’s ideas.
• "Necessity is the mother of invention... Smith is very prone to procrastination... making 17 seconds, he had no chance to do that." — Ian Gittins [06:23]

The “Classic Lineup” and Mainstream Success

‘The Head on the Door’ era and lineup dynamics

• By 1985, the lineup stabilized (Smith, Gallup, Thompson, Williams, Tolhurst), leading to The Head on the Door and The Cure’s broadest commercial breakthrough.
• Chemistry and collective experience were vital, despite internal issues, e.g., Lol Tolhurst’s substance abuse.

Robert Smith’s evolving songwriting

• Smith held primary songwriting control, making the band’s sound increasingly his own.
• "The albums where he is the sole songwriter is the truest to that vision... there are two fantastic pop songs on there, but also lugubrious songs..." — Ian Gittins [09:32]

Balancing pop and darkness

• Smith mixed “moody songs and pop songs” on the same album, resulting in tracks like “In Between Days” and “Close To Me.”
• The group’s playful music videos contributed to a new, accessible image, helping them conquer America via MTV.

Cultural impact of their breakthrough

• "The tour before [the classic lineup], they were playing to clubs... and suddenly they're playing 12,000 people. MTV was a big part of that. The Cure had really taken off. They become a major league band. They weren't a cult anymore." — Ian Gittins [11:21]

The Mid-1990s: Challenges and Renewal

Lol Tolhurst’s departure and legal battle

• Tolhurst’s substance abuse rendered him unreliable; was eventually dismissed and then sued Smith and Fiction Records claiming royalties and rights.
• The court battle exposed the band’s internal dysfunction publicly.
• "Nobody really came out of it well... Robert Smith did an extraordinarily generous thing—[he] repaid, gave Lol the money he'd lost in that fateful court case... and didn't say a word about it, which is really, truly exceptional, I think." — Ian Gittins [13:41]

Uncertainty and the making of Wild Mood Swings

• Post-lawsuit, the band’s lineup was in flux and Smith felt uncertain about The Cure’s place in the Britpop/grunge-dominated music landscape.
• The resulting album, Wild Mood Swings (1996), reflected caution and experimentation; its commercial disappointment marked a downturn.
• "Robert Smith... exact words were 'a bit confused as to what we thought of at the moment.'" — Ian Gittins [16:28]

21st Century: Legacy, Touring Power, and Creative Delays

Resurgence as a touring act, despite declining album sales

• The band’s ability to sell out arenas and festival slots persisted even as new records underperformed.
• "Their audience has grown with them. They've been around for 40 years, 50 years... it's quite a cozy, cozy relationship, really." — Ian Gittins [20:02]

Robert Smith’s perfectionism and creative block

• Smith publicly described himself as “lazy,” yet driven and perfectionistic—a combination that led to long gaps between albums.

Taking on Ticketmaster

• In the 2020s, Smith became a public advocate against Ticketmaster’s excessive fees, resonating with fans and prompting rare concessions from the corporation.
• "He didn't like the fact that there was a big corporation ripping off their fans... and he got a result." — Ian Gittins [22:48]

The saga of Songs of a Lost World

• Album teased for years, constantly delayed due to Smith’s meticulousness; some new songs performed on tour years before the album’s release.
• "Even by Robert standards, a tortured and labyrinthine process really." — Ian Gittins [24:22]

Songs of a Lost World: Grief, Reflection, and Legacy

Personal tragedies and their influence

• During the album’s long gestation, Smith lost his parents and brother, deeply affecting his creativity and themes.
• "He wrote a song on the album 'I Can Never Say Goodbye' about the death of his brother, which he said was the hardest and the most painful song to write." — Ian Gittins [25:21]

Artistic focus and album themes

• On the new record, Smith returns as sole songwriter, with the lyrics reflecting on mortality (“the end of every song that we sing,” from the track “Alone”), legacy, and closure.
• "It was reflecting on what has been more than looking forward to what may come... There is definite intimations of mortality all through this record." — Ian Gittins [27:10]
• Smith’s sincerity and sense of closure contributed to the album’s critical and commercial success.

The Cure’s Future

Possible second album from recent sessions and the 50th anniversary

• Smith has claimed there are enough upbeat tracks from the Songs of a Lost World sessions for another record, but based on past patterns, Gittins is skeptical.
• "He has actually said exactly what he wants to do until the end of the Cure, which is produce that second album, do a lot of touring, a lot of festivals... But again, I wouldn't guarantee him sticking to that." — Ian Gittins [29:21]

Reflections on Robert Smith and band longevity

• Smith’s unpredictability emphasized: "The last person to ask for the future of the Cure is Robert Smith, because he's a very unreliable witness." — Ian Gittins [30:57]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [03:09] "Robert Smith was still a teenager... had this vision of making music about the existential angst of the human condition, I think." — Ian Gittins
• [13:41] "Robert Smith did an extraordinarily generous thing, I think, rooted in friendship and didn't say a word about it, which is really, truly exceptional, I think." — Ian Gittins, on Smith repaying Lol Tolhurst’s legal losses
• [22:48] "He didn't like the fact that there was a big corporation ripping off their fans... and he got a result." — Ian Gittins, on Smith taking on Ticketmaster
• [27:10] "It was reflecting on what has been more than looking forward to what may come..." — Ian Gittins, on the new album’s themes

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:04] – Book’s mission and approach
• [02:01] – The Cure’s early years, sound, and first album
• [05:08] – Creative growth and making of 17 Seconds
• [07:26] – Classic lineup and The Head on the Door era
• [09:32] – Robert Smith as a songwriter
• [12:43] – Lol Tolhurst’s departure and legal dispute
• [15:26] – Mid-90s uncertainty and making of Wild Mood Swings
• [19:49] – The Cure’s persistent success as a live act
• [22:38] – Robert Smith’s Ticketmaster battle
• [23:40] – Delays and anticipation for Songs of a Lost World
• [25:21] – Loss and mourning reflected in new album
• [29:21] – Hints about future albums and 50th anniversary

Ian Gittins’ Personal Reflections and Recommendations

• Gittins favors the band’s pop hits: "My favorite Cure songs have nearly always been the upbeat ones. I love the pop songs." [31:21]
• Entry points for new fans: Staring at the Sea compilation, or surprisingly, the new Songs of a Lost World album. [32:48]

Conclusion

Ian Gittins’ interview offers both an authoritative and personal look at The Cure’s labyrinthine journey from punky outsiders to global icons, through creative peaks, internal strife, and renewed relevance. The conversation is rich with anecdotes, honest reflections, and cultural context—essential for any fan or newcomer navigating The Cure’s enduring “perfect dream.”