Podcast Summary: New Books Network

Episode: Isabelle Guérin et al., "The Indebted Woman: Kinship, Sexuality, and Capitalism" (Stanford UP, 2023)

Date: November 29, 2025
Host: Sarah Fogelsanger
Guest: Isabelle Guérin (with reference to co-authors Santosh Kumar & Venkata Subramanian)

Overview

This episode delves into "The Indebted Woman: Kinship, Sexuality, and Capitalism," a path-setting ethnographic and conceptual study of Dalit women in Tamil Nadu, India. Co-authored by Isabelle Guérin, Santosh Kumar, and Venkata Subramanian, the book examines the intricate interplay between gender, debt, kinship structures, and shifting sexual norms within the context of global capitalism. Host Sarah Fogelsanger interviews lead author Guérin, who shares insights from two decades of collaborative field research, challenging dominant narratives around women’s empowerment, financialization, and social obligations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Author Background and Research Collaboration

(03:33–07:54)

• Interdisciplinary Training: Isabelle Guérin identifies as a “social scientist” blending economics, ethnography, statistics, and personal observation.
• Collaborative Ethnography: The research was a collective effort; varying perspectives on gender, caste, and locality informed the analysis.
• Long-Term Fieldwork: Started in India (2003), integrating local co-researchers’ insights for a “triangulated” understanding.

Quote:

“Our work has consisted in carrying out a statistical survey aiming at measuring women's debt…combined with a long-term ethnography…allowing us to triangulate, cross-check, and in the end strengthen our analysis.”
—Isabelle Guérin (07:28)

2. The ‘Elephant in the Room’: Gender, Debt, and the Missing Data

(07:54–16:16)

• Neglect of Gender in Debt Studies: Mainstream statistics and policy rarely differentiate women’s debt; it's often merged into household figures.
• ‘Sexual Division of Debt’: Just as labor is gendered, so is debt—women have particular access to credit, face predatory terms, and a disproportionately heavy repayment burden.
• Forms of Indebtedness: Pawn loans, payday loans, and especially microcredit (where 80% of clients are women) expose structural inequalities; women often repay not only their own debts but those of family.

Quote:

“A key argument of the book is to say that there exists a sexual division of debt, as many feminist studies have shown that there is a sexual division of labor…”
—Isabelle Guérin (12:35)

• Corporality of Debt: Women’s bodies and sexuality are often caught up in mechanisms of debt (from transactional sex to social stigma).

3. The South Indian Context: Dalit Women and ‘Patriarchal Debt’

(18:28–33:10)

• Rapid Credit Market Expansion: Microcredit and informal lending exploded since the 2000s, with Dalit women targeted despite lacking traditional collateral.
• Paradox of Women’s ‘Creditworthiness’: Contrary to financial logic, poor rural women become ideal borrowers due to social domination—not economic power.
• Debt Beyond Economics: Drawing on David Graeber and Gayle Rubin, Guérin argues debt is moral, political, social—a tool reinforcing gender, caste, and kinship hierarchies.

Quote:

“Debt is never just economics. It's moral, it's political, it's deeply social.”
—Isabelle Guérin (28:27)

• Kinship and Changing Norms: A shift toward ‘housewifeization’—increased domesticity and sexual control over women—is linked to capitalist and conservative kinship ideologies.
• ‘Respectable’ Woman as Repayer: Repayment is crucial to the construction of social worth in the community; shame and guilt add to the burden.

4. Sexuality, Transactional Sex, and Navigating Respectability

(34:38–43:36)

• Unexpected Centrality of Sexuality: The discovery that transactional sex—trades of sex or affection for credit or leniency—is more prevalent than anticipated.
• Broad Definition: Includes gestures from smiles to touch to sex; not only with lenders but also within kin relationships to negotiate resources.
• Changing Body Norms: Societal expectations around beauty and respectability intensify the psychological burden; managing debt becomes a cognitive, emotional, and physical ‘job’.
• Contradictions and Skills: Women must use their bodies as assets while maintaining respectability, juggling conflicting demands.

Quote:

“One of the most crucial and exhausting skills of the indebted woman is to learn how to navigate permanent contradiction: using her body to remain without losing respectability.”
—Isabelle Guérin (41:53)

5. Avoiding the ‘Victim’ or ‘Heroine’ Trap

(44:25–51:46)

• Rejecting Simplistic Narratives: Guérin is careful not to frame Dalit women only as ‘victims’ or ‘empowered heroines.’
• Ordinary Citizens: Research shows these women are “very active figures of this financial landscape” supporting families, communities, and the financial system itself.
• Emotional Complexity: Attachments with lenders can blur lines between coercion, strategy, and affection—social history shapes even love.
• Anecdote: NGO sessions where women are coached on hygiene and ‘presentability’ for bank credit highlight the intersection of gender, appearance, and financial access.

Quote:

“She [the indebted woman] actively makes it function. She keeps money circulating. She negotiates time, trust, credibility, honor.”
—Isabelle Guérin (46:20)

6. Broader Significance & Ongoing Research

(52:57–55:33)

• Debt as Structural Compensator: Without the exploitation of women’s debt, the current structure of global capitalism could not function—women’s indebtedness fills gaps left by insufficient wages and social protections.
• Statistics: At least one-third of the world’s population relies on debt for survival—a figure likely understated.
• Next Steps: Guérin’s current research includes:
  • Continuing to disseminate the book’s findings outside academic circles.
  • Campaigns to raise awareness on women’s debt.
  • Quantifying chronic indebtedness globally.
  • Investigating environmental debt's interplay with social debt.

Quote:

“Without women’s debt, capitalism couldn’t work… it allows the system to keep going.”
—Isabelle Guérin (53:06)

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Triangulated Research Method:
  “Our work…allowing us to triangulate, cross-check, and in the end strengthen our analysis.” (07:28)
• Sexual Division of Debt:
  “There exists a sexual division of debt…” (12:35)
• Debt as Social Structure:
  “Debt is never just economics. It's moral, it's political, it's deeply social.” (28:27)
• Navigating Contradictions:
  “One of the most crucial and exhausting skills of the indebted woman is to learn how to navigate permanent contradiction: using her body to remain without losing respectability.” (41:53)
• Dynamic Roles:
  “She actively makes it function…She negotiates time, trust, credibility, honor.” (46:20)
• Critical Structural Insight:
  “Without women’s debt, capitalism couldn’t work…it allows the system to keep going.” (53:06)

Timestamps by Theme

• 03:33 – 07:54: Guérin’s background & collaborative methodology
• 07:54 – 16:16: Gendering debt and introducing the ‘sexual division of debt’
• 18:28 – 33:10: The South Indian case, class & kinship, normative shifts
• 34:38 – 43:36: Centrality of sexuality, transactional sex, women’s agency
• 44:25 – 51:46: Navigating dichotomies, nuanced portrayal, anecdotes
• 52:57 – 55:33: Broader capitalist context, ongoing projects, global perspective

Takeaways

• The study reframes indebtedness as a gendered, social, and moral construct, not just an economic one.
• Dalit women in South India exemplify how financial systems and gendered kinship structures intersect under neoliberal capitalism.
• Women’s debt has become both tool and trap—a means for value, survival, and social participation, but also a profound site of exploitation and discipline.

For further engagement, refer to the book:
The Indebted Woman: Kinship, Sexuality, and Capitalism (Stanford University Press, 2023)