Podcast Summary: New Books Network – "The Philosophy of the Bhagavad-Gita" by Dr. Itamar Theodor

Date: November 27, 2025
Host: Dr. Raj Balkaran
Guest: Dr. Itamar Theodor (Zafat Academic College)

Episode Overview

This episode explores Dr. Itamar Theodor's newest book, The Philosophy of the Bhagavad-Gita (Cambridge UP, 2025). Dr. Theodor discusses his approach to interpreting the Bhagavad Gita as a work of philosophy, aiming to bridge its rich Indic context with contemporary academic philosophy departments, and to highlight its internal structure and enduring relevance. The conversation covers pedagogical concerns, thematic structures, philosophical-religious tensions, and the Gita’s potential to inspire rigorous intellectual and experiential engagement.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genesis of the Project and The Gita’s Place in Philosophy

• [02:47] Dr. Theodor’s Intellectual Mission: He expresses a long-standing fascination with the Bhagavad Gita and a desire to present it as a rational, humanistic, philosophical work accessible to students in philosophy departments, akin to Plato or Confucius.

  • "My vision is to bring the Bhagavad Gita into the philosophy department… in humanistic, rational, non-mystical terms… Build the bridge so that the Gita can be taught in a class of philosophy." (02:47, Dr. Itamar Theodor)

• Previous Works: Theodor briefly outlines his earlier monograph—featuring a sectioned translation and his “Three Story House” structure—as well as a critical introduction highlighting a variety of scholarly voices, culminating in this latest, unapologetically thematic treatment.

2. Rationalizing Indian Philosophy for Modern Academia

• [08:04] The Institutional Divide: Dr. Theodor observes that Indian philosophy is often relegated to the margins—studied as "museumic," historical, or apologetic, rather than as vibrant, contemporary philosophy.

  • "What's happening in academia is that Indian philosophy is treated like a museum: you categorize it, you grade it, but it’s not taken as vibrant contemporary philosophy…" (08:04, Dr. Itamar Theodor)

• Bridging Philosophy and Theology: He references thinkers who challenge the neat Western distinction between philosophy and theology, and builds his own model offering an “a priori structure” (the “three story house”) to frame the Gita philosophically.

3. Philosophical Structure of the Bhagavad Gita

• [20:51] The Gita’s Ladder and The Three Story House

  • The Gita’s “ladder” parallels the Yoga Sutras’ famous steps, offering a Karma Yoga ladder—stages of internal motivation for performing dharma, from utilitarian (avoiding dishonor) to surrender and devotion (bhakti).

    • "Just as the Yoga Sutra has that famous yoga ladder, the Bhagavad Gita also has… a Karma yoga ladder." (20:51, Dr. Itamar Theodor)

  • Three Metaphysical Levels:

    • First Story (Humanistic/Dharmic): Concerned with worldly obligations (dharma).
    • Second Story (Yoga/Spirituality): Concerned with spiritual knowledge, atman, and detachment.
    • Third Story (Moksha/Liberation): Focused on transcendence and ultimate surrender.

  • This structure allows a harmonized reading that resolves apparent contradictions by seeing the Gita as toggling between and integrating these planes.

• [32:16] Syncretism as Structure: Theodor argues that while the Gita is syncretic, it is not haphazard; rather, it is unified by this structural ladder and threefold metaphysical vision.

  • "Of course, they have wisdom, life-changing wisdom … but they also have a structure which can be treated … bringing a Greek philosophy [comparison], the process of philosophication… I feel that I'm doing that with the Gita." (16:14, Dr. Itamar Theodor)

4. Samsara, Karma, and the Indic Philosophical Ecosystem

• [33:12] Samsara’s Indispensability: The Gita’s worldview—of rebirth, karma, and liberation—is not merely an overlay but is integral to its philosophy.

  • "You have to see that aspect… I don't think you can understand the Gita without actually getting a grasp of this idea of the soul being different from the body…" (33:12, Dr. Itamar Theodor)

• Host’s Reflections: Dr. Balkaran observes that, regardless of one's beliefs, understanding these Indic concepts is essential for a true reading, as they form the “operating system” of the tradition.

  • "Samsara is not just the app, it's the operating system for all classical Indic thought… Intellectually speaking, one cannot…" (36:24, Dr. Raj Balkaran)

5. Philosophy vs. Religiosity – The Delicate Line

• [37:58] On Secularizing the Gita: Theodor acknowledges some may see his humanistic reading as secular, but contends it is deeply spiritual and in keeping with traditions that blend rationality and spirituality (e.g. medieval Christian theology).

  • "I feel great about what I'm doing … I'm just like a medieval Oxford theologian … trying to keep its spirituality, but also rationalizing it…" (38:38, Dr. Itamar Theodor)

• Host’s Perspective: Dr. Balkaran suggests there is a spectrum of engagement, and meaningful public scholarship can bridge rigorous analysis and lived tradition.

6. Pedagogy and Public Scholarship

• [50:16] Chapter Nine – Education and Application:

  • Dr. Theodor highlights the final chapter of his book, designed for teachers, synthesizing the Gita’s major themes (ecology, virtue, ethics, spirituality, devotion) for curricular use.

  • "I really wanted to do a chapter for a teacher who wants to teach the Gita in class and ask, what is the Gita? What are the values?" (50:16, Dr. Itamar Theodor)

• Public Scholarship: Both speakers agree that making philosophical complexity accessible to a broad audience is not a dilution, but a necessary extension of the academic vocation.

7. The Gita as Life-Changing Philosophy

• [47:40] The Transformative Nature:

  • The Gita (like all profound philosophy) is presented as potentially life-changing, not merely an object of study.

  • "You study philosophy … it's supposed to be like that actually. And it's a life-changing experience. That's ideally the way you would like to see philosophy studies, life-changing experience…" (47:40, Dr. Itamar Theodor)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Vision for the Gita in Philosophy:
  "My vision is to bring the Bhagavad Gita in the philosophy department, that the Bhagavad Gita will be taught just as other sources of ancient philosophy, just like Plato, Aristotle, Confucius, Lao Tzu…"
  — Dr. Itamar Theodor (02:47)

• On the “Three Story House”: "I call [it] the three story house. So that's the ladder. Then you have three stories. That's kind of my own, I would say, innovation…"
  — Dr. Itamar Theodor (20:51)

• On Philosophical Structure Resolving Contradiction:
  "Once you can differentiate between these levels, then you can see how they actually fit together and nourish each other in a very natural way… and then they don't conflict."
  — Dr. Itamar Theodor (28:07)

• On Understanding Indic Philosophy on its Own Terms:
  "Samsara is not just the app, it's the operating system for all classical Indic thought… To understand the Gita, you have to understand that after that, you don't have personally to believe in what you believe. But that's the underlying assumption in the Gita…"
  — Dr. Raj Balkaran & Dr. Itamar Theodor (36:24-37:34)

• On Academic-Experiential Duality:
  "You can say we're doing Jnana Yoga. Basically, we are practicing Jnana Yoga, if you want to look at it for the traditional point of view, we are studying the Gita from an intellectual point of view and trying to rationalize the Gita."
  — Dr. Itamar Theodor (41:08)

• On Public Engagement: "Public engagement, proper public engagement, has nothing to do with sacrificing rigor or complexity, but it has to do with communicating value… It has to do with the respect of tradition and the respect of those who use these texts."
  — Dr. Raj Balkaran (43:03)

• On Pedagogical Application: "I try to relate to the Stoics and say you have different various ideas and to try to highlight major Gita themes that if one would want to develop a curriculum… that would be the main topics to be developed… And then I end it with devotion…"
  — Dr. Itamar Theodor (50:16)

Important Timestamps

• 02:47 — Dr. Theodor’s personal and scholarly backstory with the Bhagavad Gita
• 08:04 — Discussion on why the Gita is not mainstream in Western philosophy departments
• 20:51 — Outline of the Gita's “ladder” and “three story house” structure
• 28:07 — Hierarchical arrangement of knowledge in the Gita
• 33:12 — Samsara, rebirth, and the philosophical “operating system”
• 37:58 — Spiritual vs. secular readings of the Gita
• 50:16 — Pedagogical focus of the ninth chapter

Conclusion

Dr. Itamar Theodor’s approach to the Bhagavad Gita invites both academic rigor and lived engagement, aiming to normalize the Gita’s place within contemporary philosophical discourse while honoring its Indic philosophical “ecosystem.” His “three story house” reading and pedagogical focus offer tools for both scholars and seekers to approach this classic from a fresh, integrative perspective, ensuring its ongoing relevance for modern audiences.

For those interested in deeper study or teaching of the Gita, Dr. Theodor’s new book stands as a bridge between traditions, scholarly practices, and transformative lived experience.