Podcast Summary: J.W. Rinzler and Lee Unkrich, "Stanley Kubrick's The Shining" (Taschen, 2023)

New Books Network – New Books in Film Studies
Host: Nathan Abrams | Guest: Lee Unkrich (with mention of co-author J.W. Rinzler)
Recorded: December 31, 2025

Overview of the Episode

This episode explores the making of Stanley Kubrick's The Shining—both the iconic 1980 film and the new, definitive book co-authored by Lee Unkrich and J.W. Rinzler and published by Taschen. Unkrich, an Oscar-winning director and lifelong Kubrick devotee, discusses the genesis of his decade-long research project, his unique access to the Kubrick archives, and the extraordinary detail and design of the new book. The conversation delves deeply into Kubrick's working methods, the perennial mysteries and fan theories around The Shining, and the process of demystifying one of cinema’s most enigmatic auteurs.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lee Unkrich's Background and Motivation

• Unkrich’s career: Originally from the Midwest, came to California for film school, then to Pixar, where he edited and directed films including Toy Story 3 and Coco (02:13).
• First encounter with The Shining: Saw it at age 12 in 1980, was "transfixed" by the film, and quickly noticed unique differences between King’s novel and Kubrick’s adaptation (03:17).
• Obsession with unseen material: Fascinated by production stills showing cut scenes, especially the hospital epilogue, and Kubrick’s reputation for secrecy.
• Visit to the Kubrick Archive: In 2010, while promoting Toy Story 3, Unkrich visited the archive in London, which revealed the depth of Kubrick's private creative process. This sowed the seeds for the book project (05:24).
• Long gestation of the project: Began in 2012 after speaking to the Kubrick estate and becoming the first to approach the project from a production/research perspective, leading to a decade-long journey (07:36).

2. The Kubrick Archive and Its Impact on Scholarship

• Game changer for Kubrick studies: “It's a fantastic resource… it's a game changer for the study of Kubrick. I don't think it's very easy to not to write anything anymore and not look at what's in the archive.” – Nathan Abrams (08:30).
• Kubrick's privacy and control: Kubrick deliberately maintained mystery around how he made films, preferring final products to speak for themselves.
• Humanizing Kubrick: Seeing Kubrick struggle with creative decisions dispels the myth of the omnipotent genius and renders him more approachable for filmmakers (08:44, 11:00).

"One of the things that was really interesting for me doing this book is it really humanized Stanley Kubrick for me, especially for me as a filmmaker." – Lee Unkrich [08:44]

3. Kubrick’s Working Methods and Directorial Philosophy

• Never repeating himself: Kubrick shifted genres dramatically with each film, driven by the urge to avoid repetition and maintain originality. Example: shifting from 2001 (science fiction) to Barry Lyndon (costume drama) to The Shining (horror) (13:54, 14:07).
• The commercial side: After the commercial failure of Barry Lyndon, Kubrick adapted a popular Stephen King book to ensure box office success while maintaining personal interest (11:22).
• Adaptation choices: Many creative decisions (e.g., the iconic "Room 237" number, changing Jack’s drink from a martini to Jack Daniels) were motivated by practicality, symbolism, or happenstance (23:13, 24:16, 24:27).

4. Fan Theories, Enigma, and The Shining’s Mystique

• Open-endedness by design: Kubrick deliberately left narrative threads unresolved, encouraging endless fan theories (17:10).
• Freudian and uncanny elements: Kubrick referenced Freud’s essay on “the uncanny,” intentionally repeating motifs and numbers to create subtle unease (17:10, 23:13, 25:00).
• Theories and over-interpretation: While some motifs (e.g., Native American imagery) were intentional, others (e.g., Holocaust allegory via the number 42) are probably coincidental or over-interpreted (27:00, 27:21).

"He never anticipated a day and age where people would be able to digitize his films and overlay frames and do the kind of microscopic analysis that people have done with his films." – Lee Unkrich [20:34]

• Kubrick as an enigmatic, sometimes mischievous creator: Kubrick was aware of his reputation and sometimes “winked” at the idea of critics overanalyzing his films (22:08).

5. Structure and Design of the Book

• Co-authoring and publisher negotiations: The collaboration with J.W. Rinzler and the quest to convince Taschen to publish a large, text-heavy book (29:14).
• Three-volume special edition:
  • Volume 1: A comprehensive 900-page “making-of” text with photos and documents.
  • Volume 2: A photo folio “scrapbook,” inspired by a major but excised motif from both the novel and film.
  • Volume 3: A box containing typed “All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy” sheets plus ephemera and sub-volumes referencing key production material (29:14–35:42).
• Balance of detail and accessibility: The book is unprecedented in scope for Taschen—typically an image-focused publisher—and designed for both in-depth reading and visual browsing (35:49).

"I set out to create the definitive text on the making of The Shining." – Lee Unkrich [35:49]

6. Extended Insights: Vivian Kubrick's Documentary and Kubrick's Image

• Depiction of Kubrick in the making-of documentary: The famous footage of Kubrick being “tough” on Shelley Duvall is discussed in the book, with Unkrich emphasizing Kubrick’s control over his own public image and contesting the mythos of his abusiveness (38:17).

"He was a kind, methodical man who treated his crew really well... people look at those moments in the film, and they extrapolate out... but that just must be how Stanley Kubrick was as a person. And again, not the case." – Lee Unkrich [38:37]

• Interviews and public persona: Kubrick’s tendency to only do interviews he could edit, and his unique irritation with the media's obsession with the number of takes (43:02, 44:17).

7. Revelatory Discoveries and Transforming Understanding

• New discoveries: Unkrich’s journey through the archives fundamentally changed his perspective on the film and Kubrick—both in discovering forgotten storylines and in understanding Kubrick's workflow (46:52).
• Viewing the film anew: Spielberg’s foreword states that, after reading the book, no one will see The Shining the same way again (46:52).

8. Theories and Endings

• Unkrich’s “theory” about the cobweb and skeleton scene: Unkrich posits that the scene (cut from the European version) was Kubrick’s riff on the idea that “the hotel will throw anything at Wendy to stop her—especially the clichés of ghost stories she’s supposed to love” (49:39–52:33).
• Shelley Duvall and “shining”: Abrams proposes that Wendy has a latent shining ability, making her see supernatural visions toward the end; Unkrich concurs this is plausible (54:35).

9. Final Reflections

• Lasting impact: The book’s core achievement is in “humanizing” Kubrick, showing him as a working filmmaker rather than an untouchable genius. Unkrich hopes the book inspires future generations of filmmakers (46:52).
• Future projects? Unkrich hints at retirement from book writing—unless a similarly irresistible project appears (55:22).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On seeing "The Shining" at age 12:
  “I somehow became really transfixed with it immediately.” – Lee Unkrich [03:17]
• On Kubrick's Archive:
  “It was kind of a rare privilege to be able to kind of get a glimpse into this private world of Stanley and his creative process.” – Lee Unkrich [05:24]
• On Kubrick's control and image management:
  "Stanley really worked hard to maintain...how people perceived him as a director. And I think he liked to maintain this illusion that his films were just kind of birthed into the world fully formed." – Lee Unkrich [08:44]
• On the cut hospital epilogue:
  "He took the unprecedented move of having a couple of editors, one on each coast, drive around in a limo to all the theaters...physically cutting the scene out of the print." – Lee Unkrich [15:28]
• On the “scrapbook” prop and echoes of cut ideas:
  "I became kind of fascinated with this notion of...these kind of ghostly echoes being left behind in the film, of ideas that didn't make it into the finished film." – Lee Unkrich [31:54]
• On reading the book, then rewatching the film:
  “You have to read this book, and the moment you finish it, watch The Shining again. And I don’t care if you’ve seen it 50 times, you’ll never see it the same way again.” – Steven Spielberg (quoted by Unkrich) [46:52]
• On favorite theory about the “cobwebs and skeletons” scene:
  "I think that Stanley saw that as a moment where the hotel was...trying anything it can. And one of the things it tries...are these kind of stereotypical ghost story images of cobwebs and skeletons." – Lee Unkrich [50:34]
• On future books:
  “No, I don’t have any plans for another book. I don’t know that I have another one in me after working so hard on this.” – Lee Unkrich [55:22]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introducing Lee Unkrich & his connection to The Shining: 02:05–07:36
• Kubrick Archive, privacy and legacy: 07:36–11:00
• Kubrick’s commercial and creative motivations: 11:00–14:07
• Cut hospital epilogue & its meaning: 15:08–16:43
• Theories and Kubrick’s enigmatic style: 17:10–27:21
• Book structure, design, and publishing saga: 29:14–36:49
• Vivian Kubrick’s documentary and Kubrick’s image: 38:17–43:02
• Kubrick’s attitude toward “takes” and public perception: 43:02–45:53
• Biggest revelations from the research: 46:52–49:30
• Unkrich’s theory on Wendy and the supernatural: 54:35–55:11
• Final reflections & future plans: 55:22–55:49

Flow & Tone

The conversation balances scholarly curiosity, fan enthusiasm, and deep respect for both Stanley Kubrick’s artistry and the process of historical research. Unkrich is thoughtful, candid, and self-reflective, eager to share details for fellow fans and scholars. The host, Abrams, is equally knowledgable and engaged, prompting Unkrich to elaborate on production minutiae, difficult choices, and the afterlife of The Shining in pop culture and academia.

For Listeners

This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in film history, Stanley Kubrick, behind-the-scenes production lore, and the enduring mysteries of The Shining. Both fans and newcomers can expect new insights, colorful anecdotes, and a fresh appreciation for the painstaking craft behind a cinematic classic.