New Books Network Podcast: Jake Monaghan, "Just Policing" (Oxford University Press, 2023)

Episode Date: November 28, 2025
Host: Tom McInerney
Guest: Jake Monaghan (Assistant Professor of Philosophy, USC)

Episode Overview

This episode features a deep discussion with philosopher Jake Monaghan about his book, Just Policing. The conversation explores the ethical foundations of policing, the importance and limits of police discretion, empirical realities shaping law enforcement, and the philosophical tension between enforcement and justice. It also addresses criticisms from both abolitionists and libertarians regarding the police as an institution.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Philosophical Origins and Motivation

• Context: Monaghan became interested in policing ethics during graduate studies, drawing connections between professional ethics (especially in medicine) and the role of law enforcement.

• Motivation: Responding to contemporary debates, particularly around Black Lives Matter and “Blue Lives Matter.”

  "Given that police officers take on voluntarily this life-saving and protecting and serving role, that there is an additional source of wrongdoing...when a police officer uses force or kills someone."
  — Jake Monaghan [04:45]

• Core Aim: To develop an account of “just policing” grounded in professional ethics and non-ideal theory (considering real-world imperfections).

2. Methodological Approach: PPE & Non-Ideal Theory

• Approach: Monaghan’s work sits in the PPE (Philosophy, Politics, and Economics) tradition, emphasizing social scientific analysis alongside philosophy.

• Non-Ideal Theory: Contrasts with traditional ideal theorizing, noting that full compliance or enforcement isn’t realistic or always desirable.

  "In our non-ideal world, full enforcement or full compliance are not actually desirable...the ideal theory approach misleads us by suggesting that something like full enforcement or full compliance is an ideal."
  — Jake Monaghan [08:23]

• Empiricism: Empirical data is essential for evaluating the proportionality and outcomes of police practices (e.g., high-speed pursuits).

3. Debates on Police Abolition and the Necessity of Policing

• Monaghan critiques both abolitionist and anarcho-capitalist positions:

  • Abolitionist Argument: Roots in historical claims about slave patrols; Monaghan argues urbanization and conflict, not racism alone, explain the need for policing.
  • Abolitionist Alternatives: Still involve “policing” activities under different guises.
  • Libertarian Views: Voluntariness does not eliminate the fundamental function of social control.

  "Abolitionist alternatives always rely on a kind of policing...they tend to want to get rid of professional police departments, but they don't want to get rid of the activity of policing."
  — Jake Monaghan [13:53]

4. Spectrum and Forms of Policing

• Soft Social Control: Not all policing is punitive or carceral. Examples:

  • Central Park Keepers (Frederick Law Olmsted): Enforcing social norms through education and gentle correction.
  • California Beach Police: Approach etiquette violations (e.g., dogs on beaches) via advisement, not punishment.

  "We need some tool of control here or else Central park is going to be pretty crappy...Park keepers as engaging in a kind of light touch, social control, where their primary goal is to educate people about the proper use of the park."
  — Jake Monaghan [18:10]

5. The Myth of Mechanical Law Enforcement & Discretion

• Key Thesis: The ideal of “full enforcement” is unattainable and even undesirable, practically and normatively.

• Discretion as Inevitable: Laws require interpretation; resource constraints force prioritization; attempts to remove discretion (e.g., mandatory arrests) backfire.

  "Full enforcement is a myth. So...police officers have only so many resources, and so they have to prioritize their resources. The result...is going to be that the police can only enforce some amount of the law, and that means that they're inevitably in a position of exercising their discretion."
  — Jake Monaghan [22:36]

6. Discretion in Practice & Its Challenges

• Resource Management: Arrests take officers away from patrols; prioritization is necessary.

• Attempts to Limit Discretion: (e.g., mandatory domestic violence arrests) highlight practical and moral ambiguities.

  "Even this attempt to eliminate discretion...is not going to work. Right. Going to be some interpretation happening."
  — Jake Monaghan [26:41]

7. Public Perception, Professionalism, and Historical Shifts

• Historical Swings: From political era (machine politics), to professional era (isolation), to community policing.

• Professional Firewall: Importance of some separation between policing and popular sentiment to avoid both unchecked discretion and abuses of power.

  "There really is something valuable about having a kind of professional firewall in between the specific decisions...and the like kind of bare majoritarian sentiment."
  — Jake Monaghan [31:14]

8. Morality of Laws vs. Morality of Enforcement

• Two-Level Analysis: The justice of the law itself vs. the justice of enforcing it, especially when both the law’s morality and social context are contested or flawed.

• Durable Disagreement: Imperfect laws are inevitable; police will always be caught in moral and political conflicts about what to enforce.

• Collateral Injustice: Enforcement can be unjust even of just laws if the broader system (e.g., punitive prison conditions) is unjust.

  "In principle this could be a just law, you could justly enforce it...in the present circumstances it would be unjust to do so. I think this is the case for a lot of our low level, like misdemeanor laws."
  — Jake Monaghan [38:08]

9. Philosophy of Law: Moral Obligation to Obey the Law

• Distinction: Monaghan (following Alan Buchanan) separates police legitimacy (when the state may enforce) from citizen obligation (when one must obey).

• Reciprocity Principle: Less obligation to obey when one’s relationship with the state is one-sided (Tommy Shelby’s “Dark Ghettos”).

  "Questions of political legitimacy and political obligation come apart.... figuring out questions about just and legitimate policing basically relies on thinking about when are police officers permitted to exercise their power..."
  — Jake Monaghan [40:11]

10. White-Collar vs. Street Crime

• Focus: The book centers on patrol policing and street crime, but the logic of discretion and resource allocation applies to white-collar contexts too.

• Root Causes: The prevalence of white-collar crime counters simplistic “root cause” explanations for crime, calling instead for broader models of social control.

  "The root cause theory of various kinds of crimes that are just really popular, particularly amongst abolitionists...looks pretty unattractive."
  — Jake Monaghan [44:05]

11. Comparative and Authoritarian Regimes

• Applicability: Principles of discretion and just policing also apply outside the U.S., and are reshaped in non-democratic or transitioning societies.

• Comparative Lessons: Empirical comparisons (e.g., UK police rarely shoot knife-wielding suspects) can reveal alternatives and best practices.

  "Under these less legitimate...regimes, it seems like justifying discretionary non enforcement actually is a little bit easier."
  — Jake Monaghan [47:57]

12. ICE, Immigration Policy, and Local Policing

• Separation of Functions: ICE specialization leads to selection effects, where only those comfortable with harsh tactics stay.

• Just Policing and Harm: The punitive function of current immigration enforcement violates the just function of police.

• Non-Cooperation: Monaghan argues local agencies should avoid entanglement with federal agencies like ICE to maintain trust and effectiveness.

  "As soon as two agencies are really tightly cooperating, it's easy for one agency's goal to kind of swamp the others."
  — Jake Monaghan [58:55]

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• "Given that police officers take on voluntarily this life-saving and...serving role, there is an additional source of wrongdoing...when a police officer uses force or kills someone."
  — Jake Monaghan [04:45]

• "Full enforcement is a myth...police officers have only so many resources, and...they're inevitably in a position of exercising their discretion."
  — Jake Monaghan [22:36]

• "Abolitionist alternatives always rely on a kind of policing...they tend to want to get rid of professional police departments, but they don't want to get rid of the activity of policing."
  — Jake Monaghan [13:53]

• "Even this attempt to eliminate discretion...is not going to work."
  — Jake Monaghan [26:41]

• "There really is something valuable about having a kind of professional firewall in between... the specific decisions... and bare majoritarian sentiment."
  — Jake Monaghan [31:14]

• "In principle this could be a just law...in the present circumstances it would be unjust to do so."
  — Jake Monaghan [38:08]

• "Questions of political legitimacy and political obligation come apart."
  — Jake Monaghan [40:11]

• "The root cause theory of various kinds of crimes...looks pretty unattractive."
  — Jake Monaghan [44:05]

• "As soon as two agencies are really tightly cooperating, it's easy for one agency's goal to kind of swamp the others."
  — Jake Monaghan [58:55]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Introduction and Motivation: [03:01–05:49]
• Methodological Approach: [06:59–10:27]
• Police Abolition Debate: [11:26–15:46]
• Spectrum of Policing (Historical & Contemporary Examples): [17:05–21:31]
• Police Discretion and Myths of Enforcement: [21:31–28:57]
• Professionalism, Perception, and Historical Swings: [29:30–33:36]
• Morality of Laws vs. Enforcement: [33:36–38:51]
• Obligation to Obey the Law: [39:03–42:31]
• White Collar Crime: [42:31–46:09]
• Comparative/Authoritarian Contexts: [46:10–52:13]
• ICE & Immigration Enforcement: [52:13–59:30]
• Wrap-up: [59:30–end]

Memorable Moment

Central Park Keepers Analogy ([18:10]):
Olmsted’s preference for “park keepers” to gently educate rather than police by force remains a compelling metaphor for proportionate and just social control—demonstrating how “policing” extends beyond punitive force.

Tone & Style

Monaghan balances theoretical rigor with practical examples and a conversational, reflective tone. He’s skeptical of simplistic solutions and keen to ground philosophical claims in real-world data and experience.

Conclusion

The conversation offers a nuanced analysis of what “just policing” means in a flawed world—and how discretion, empirical reality, and public values must shape any viable theory or practice of law enforcement. Monaghan’s book provides a rich framework for grappling with the persistent dilemmas of police power, justice, and social order.